The Video Assistant Referee (VAR)

[StefanAVFC]

28 minutes ago, jimmygreaves said:

These are examples of the var team working well apparently which the powers that be have deemed worthy of public release. 

They're not. They're examples across the spectrum of well worked VAR incidents and not so much. Webb even said this wasn't the best process. But here they had to go step by step starting with Bowen. If they'd have decided that Soucek didn't handball it then they'd probably rule it out for a foul on Konsa anyway.

[fightoffyour]

On the other hand, being able to hear them at least explains where the time goes.

There's absolutely no reason, apart from to cover their own backs, for not broadcasting this to the real fans - that is, the TV audience. I can understand why they wouldn't want to play the audio live to legacy fans in the stadium (though I still think they should), as it could rile up the crowd and influence the ref unnecessarily.

[villa4europe]

I liked how they knew there were potentially multiple reasons why they could disallow it so then tried to pick the easiest one, the process of elimination was good

but I still think FIFA do it better with their VAR team, that was 2 guys, FIFA I think use 5, they could have checked the offside and the handball at the same time, in theory when the main guy says right change the angle they could do that at the same time, you don't watch something twice from different angles you have 2 guys looking at something once

[StefanAVFC]

1 minute ago, villa4europe said:

I liked how they knew there were potentially multiple reasons why they could disallow it so then tried to pick the easiest one, the process of elimination was good

but I still think FIFA do it better with their VAR team, that was 2 guys, FIFA I think use 5, they could have checked the offside and the handball at the same time, in theory when the main guy says right change the angle they could do that at the same time, you don't watch something twice from different angles you have 2 guys looking at something once

Main VAR was a disaster, AVAR was good in this case.

Not the first time AVAR has upstaged the VAR tbh

[fightoffyour]

Why can't the VAR operate the replays? Nothing more annoying than leaning over someone's shoulder on the monitor going "back a bit, no too far, click here, zoom out will ya, no not there". **** sake just learn how to do it yourself.

[villa4europe]

9 minutes ago, fightoffyour said:

Why can't the VAR operate the replays? Nothing more annoying than leaning over someone's shoulder on the monitor going "back a bit, no too far, click here, zoom out will ya, no not there". **** sake just learn how to do it yourself.

i don't mind that so much, to me he would be like a tv producer, wall of screens in front of him, 4 or 5 operators showing the different camera angles and him being able to move very very quickly between all of the screens to decipher the info

the biggest problem with it is the belief that that skill is something that pitch refs have...why would they? (beyond the arrogance of the boys club) eventually id guess that a VAR will become a specific role with people specialising in it, its common sense that its 2 different roles

again something that FIFA did better, they had specific VAR teams

[fightoffyour]

3 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

i don't mind that so much, to me he would be like a tv producer, wall of screens in front of him, 4 or 5 operators showing the different camera angles and him being able to move very very quickly between all of the screens to decipher the info

the biggest problem with it is the belief that that skill is something that pitch refs have...why would they? (beyond the arrogance of the boys club) eventually id guess that a VAR will become a specific role with people specialising in it, its common sense that its 2 different roles

again something that FIFA did better, they had specific VAR teams

Yeah that's kind of my point - it shouldn't be difficult to have someone that can (video assistant) referee and scroll through video. They could still ask someone else (the "producer"), "is there a better angle?" and that person would have the answer, but to rewind to a certain point, etc., should be operable by the VAR.

[bobzy]

10 hours ago, Mark Albrighton said:

I suppose it might be expected that they’d look at things in chronological order. So they might go “Check for offside, draw lines…oh no he’s on. Ok now let’s have a look at the handball.”

My only guess is that they originally thought the handball would be more obvious than the (possible) offside so it would be easier to come to a conclusion based on that. 
 

To be honest, watching it I thought it was all fine, it seemed to work and made sense (the club I support benefited so there is that conflict of interest in my opinion there). It’s just how long it took. 

From the sound of the audio, they were checking for the handball incident and started from point of the free kick being taken.  One of the referees involved says something like "possible offside there that we can check" as the replay is shown.

It takes a bit too long, I don't understand why there's a need for an AVAR, but the process worked well IMO.

[StefanAVFC]

The only thing I didn't like is that they identified a deliberate handball from Soucek very early on, so it wasn't relevant whether it came off Bowen's hand or not.

[bobzy]

9 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

The only thing I didn't like is that they identified a deliberate handball from Soucek very early on, so it wasn't relevant whether it came off Bowen's hand or not.

I'm not sure they called it deliberate early on.  They saw a handball, but were assessing as if accidental.  Once they couldn't see whether if came off Bowen's arm, they went back and decided it was deliberate.

 

Edit:  ...and that element, I reckon, is criticised by West Ham fans as being unfair/not deliberate, whereas we're like "good call".  No wonder all clubs feel VAR is against them.

Edited March 21 by bobzy

[StefanAVFC]

5 minutes ago, bobzy said:

I'm not sure they called it deliberate early on.  They saw a handball, but were assessing as if accidental.  Once they couldn't see whether if came off Bowen's arm, they went back and decided it was deliberate.

 

Edit:  ...and that element, I reckon, is criticised by West Ham fans as being unfair/not deliberate, whereas we're like "good call".  No wonder all clubs feel VAR is against them.

I've seen as many say it was obviously deliberate handball as those saying it wasn't. Whereas we all think it was. Neutrals all say it was too from what I've seen.

Also our handball not given seems very split too.

FWIW I think ours wasn't (just) and theirs was (obviously so) and there was also a clear foul on Konsa.

The decision West Ham fans are most annoyed about is when Kudus scored after the ref had already blown for a foul on Martinez.

[villa4europe]

2 hours ago, StefanAVFC said:

I've seen as many say it was obviously deliberate handball as those saying it wasn't. Whereas we all think it was. Neutrals all say it was too from what I've seen.

Also our handball not given seems very split too.

FWIW I think ours wasn't (just) and theirs was (obviously so) and there was also a clear foul on Konsa.

The decision West Ham fans are most annoyed about is when Kudus scored after the ref had already blown for a foul on Martinez.

Id forgotten about that one 

To be fair it's slightly softer than what we had vs sheff utd but we have had that go against us this season and people were fuming (but that was to do with phase of play I think) 

[El Zen]

The struggle continues. 10 professional clubs are now officially, by membership vote, against VAR and their representatives are instructed to work for the discontinuation of VAR in Norwegian football. A year ago that number was 2. More importantly, those 10 clubs include all the «giants» of Norwegian football (in terms of membership): Rosenborg, Brann, Lillestrøm and Vålerenga. Well supported household clubs like Start, Bodø/Glimt and Strømsgodset and others too. Tonight there was a televised primetime debate on national television to discuss VAR. Our representatives argued our case very well. This is winnable. 

[a-k]

On 21/03/2024 at 08:59, jimmygreaves said:

Watching those VAR videos back is astonishing. It's just so amateurish. These are examples of the var team working well apparently which the powers that be have deemed worthy of public release. 

There's little fixed process, the language used is not professional, the decision making process is utterly ad-hoc. It's just crazy that this is deemed acceptable in a billion pound industry where these decisions could cost clubs significant amounts of money.

How, after the Liverpool-Spurs debacle, is "confirmed" still being used without any additional wording?

[Sulberto21]

Michael Owen on the segment with Howard Webb asked why the foul on Konsa wasn’t spotted immediately even though it was pretty blatant. 

[markavfc40]

The VAR decision in the Newcastle West Ham game to ask the referee to review his on field decision, which was no penalty, was up there with some of the worst officiating seen this season. It was never a penalty. Gordon at no time had control of/possession of the ball and if anything needed to be given (it didn't) him stepping in front of Phillips was a foul on Phillips.

 

Edited March 30 by markavfc40

[Villa87]

Can’t remember a worst penalty decision to be honest. That’s the worst since Konsa on rat face. 

[Tegis]

Put that at the other end of the field, Philips in winding up to shoot it into the goal and Gordon puts his foot in between. Of course it's a Gordon foul. Useless twits

[KAZZAM]

Just seen the 2nd Gordon pen that is an absolute disgrace. 

And it was VAR who gave it. 

Gordon becoming a bit Bruno Fernandes esque, just looking at cheating all the time. 

[jayEm]

Don't understand that Gordon penalty at all, sometimes with these decisions you can at least see what part of the law the officials have in mind even if you think they're applying it wrongly, but that one is just insanity.