Vive_La_Villa Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 3 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: It’s really dodgy Newcastle avoid a pen last week despite it being an obvious foul then this gets overturned despite it being a clear offside? The winner against Arsenal was pretty messed up too. They definitely get their fair share of strange calls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 Foul an offside player... that's a penalty if you're Newcastle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted February 18 VT Supporter Share Posted February 18 9 minutes ago, MrBlack said: Foul an offside player... that's a penalty if you're Newcastle I've just seen the description on motd of why they apparently gave it. Wtf. So apparently because they did not know he was offside at the time, or was going to be, it's a penalty? (If I have that correctly). Since when were decisions made on the basis of players awareness of rule infringements? If that is the reason behind the call, they were obviously trying everything they could to give it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted February 18 VT Supporter Share Posted February 18 2 hours ago, AndyM3000 said: Just watched the highlights from the games today on Sky Sports YouTube. Arsenal get given what is a very soft pen, closer to a play for contact/dive for me. While us, Brentford & Forest get denied blatant pens. Sounds about right. That arsenal dive penalty decision was appalling. Almost as appalling as the commentators saying it was obvious. Honestly I've really not enjoyed the football this week in spite of our win. Something is stinking the joint out and no one is saying ANYTHING. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 6 minutes ago, HKP90 said: I've just seen the description on motd of why they apparently gave it. Wtf. So apparently because they did not know he was offside at the time, or was going to be, it's a penalty? (If I have that correctly). Since when were decisions made on the basis of players awareness of rule infringements? If that is the reason behind the call, they were obviously trying everything they could to give it. Yeah, I have no idea either. Mt interpretation was that the player wasn't offside at the time because he hadn't become involved in the play at that point. But that could also be wrong. Either way, it was flagged offside because the player was offside. These things make me think Saudi Arabia are funding PGMOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 Two maddening VAR calls in our game that thankfully didn't affect the result. But it could have. VAR is useful when applied accurately and with consistency. Clearly the weirdos at Stockley Park are unable to reliably meet their responsibilities AI should replace the humans at VAR headquarters. AI could even replace ref assistants. The ref ass. Should never have raised the flag to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 6 hours ago, HKP90 said: I've just seen the description on motd of why they apparently gave it. Wtf. So apparently because they did not know he was offside at the time, or was going to be, it's a penalty? (If I have that correctly). Since when were decisions made on the basis of players awareness of rule infringements? If that is the reason behind the call, they were obviously trying everything they could to give it. Apparently the act of standing offside isn’t an offence but if he’s not stood offside he’s not there to be fouled. It’s silly tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 9 hours ago, AndyClarke said: Newcastle penalty is just blatant cheating. 8 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said: What the hell is that Newcastle penalty? Why are they doing these things??? Referees and Linesman being shit and VAR not correcting them is one thing. But VAR giving penalties to players in an offside position is going too far! 7 hours ago, MrBlack said: Foul an offside player... that's a penalty if you're Newcastle 7 hours ago, HKP90 said: I've just seen the description on motd of why they apparently gave it. Wtf. So apparently because they did not know he was offside at the time, or was going to be, it's a penalty? (If I have that correctly). Since when were decisions made on the basis of players awareness of rule infringements? If that is the reason behind the call, they were obviously trying everything they could to give it. 57 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Apparently the act of standing offside isn’t an offence but if he’s not stood offside he’s not there to be fouled. It’s silly tbh FWIW, I think it might be the correct decision. The ruling on shirt pulling is that the offence is given for where the foul "ends up". This only really applies to shirt pulling or some sort of pulling back infringement where the foul can be continual (rather than a trip). In this instance, Schar attempts to make a run before the free kick is taken and is being pulled - which I think everyone agrees is a foul. At this point he's both onside (the ball isn't in play anyway) and is being fouled. Once the ball is played, Schar is offside but his shirt is still being pulled - and is continuously pulled until he gets into the area. Therefore, it's a foul and a penalty. The only grey area for me is whether or not a foul can occur when the ball isn't in play; but I think they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stevo985 Posted February 18 Author VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted February 18 14 hours ago, PieFacE said: The Watkins penalty that wasn't given today. Actually unbelievable. VAR is useless To me it looked like one of those fouls where everyone in football would think it's a foul. So I'm curious if anyone on here thinks it wasn't The commentator, I think it was Ekoku, said “the VAR probably didn’t want to embarrass a rookie ref by correcting him” as if that’s a totally normal thing to happen. This is what I’ve been moaning about all along. Until VAR stops being seen as “correcting” refs and refs being “wrong” then it’s never going to work. It should be seen as a team of officials all getting to the right decision. Not one being wrong and the others correcting him 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 9 minutes ago, bobzy said: FWIW, I think it might be the correct decision. The ruling on shirt pulling is that the offence is given for where the foul "ends up". This only really applies to shirt pulling or some sort of pulling back infringement where the foul can be continual (rather than a trip). In this instance, Schar attempts to make a run before the free kick is taken and is being pulled - which I think everyone agrees is a foul. At this point he's both onside (the ball isn't in play anyway) and is being fouled. Once the ball is played, Schar is offside but his shirt is still being pulled - and is continuously pulled until he gets into the area. Therefore, it's a foul and a penalty. The only grey area for me is whether or not a foul can occur when the ball isn't in play; but I think they can. The irony is If he wasn’t being pulled back he would have been even more offside Just seems like one of those rules they can easily pick and choose when they want to apply it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said: The irony is If he wasn’t being pulled back he would have been even more offside Just seems like one of those rules they can easily pick and choose when they want to apply it. Yeah, if the defender hadn’t decided to foul him he would’ve just been offside. So don’t pull his shirt. I don’t think that’s choosing to apply a rule because it’s Newcastle - it’s literally the laws of the game The far worse VAR issues IMO, in degrees of obviousness, were: - Not giving Forest a penalty - Not giving Brentford a penalty - Not giving us a penalty They’re all just obvious fouls. Like, really obvious. There’s no subjectivity to them - they’re fouls! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 The way it should be looked at but isn't because referees don't use common sense, is, would it be a foul outfield. On the Watkins penalty call, definately yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 6 hours ago, maqroll said: Two maddening VAR calls in our game that thankfully didn't affect the result. But it could have. I'm assuming you mean the Ollie penalty, which I agree with. The Moreno offside was correct. He was offside, no matter how minimal. The assistant referee also put the flag up. We can't argue that VAR gets involved too much, but then also say they should be over turning on field decisions that are correct at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 43 minutes ago, bobzy said: Yeah, if the defender hadn’t decided to foul him he would’ve just been offside. So don’t pull his shirt. I don’t think that’s choosing to apply a rule because it’s Newcastle - it’s literally the laws of the game The far worse VAR issues IMO, in degrees of obviousness, were: - Not giving Forest a penalty - Not giving Brentford a penalty - Not giving us a penalty They’re all just obvious fouls. Like, really obvious. There’s no subjectivity to them - they’re fouls! Agreed with this. No contact on the ball, heavy contact on the player. This is a objective view. You can not call them grey areas and it's mad that the correct result hasn't happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted February 18 VT Supporter Share Posted February 18 9 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said: I'm assuming you mean the Ollie penalty, which I agree with. The Moreno offside was correct. He was offside, no matter how minimal. The assistant referee also put the flag up. We can't argue that VAR gets involved too much, but then also say they should be over turning on field decisions that are correct at the same time. He looks like he was on side to me. The commentators also thought he was on side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted February 18 VT Supporter Share Posted February 18 1 hour ago, bobzy said: FWIW, I think it might be the correct decision. The ruling on shirt pulling is that the offence is given for where the foul "ends up". This only really applies to shirt pulling or some sort of pulling back infringement where the foul can be continual (rather than a trip). In this instance, Schar attempts to make a run before the free kick is taken and is being pulled - which I think everyone agrees is a foul. At this point he's both onside (the ball isn't in play anyway) and is being fouled. Once the ball is played, Schar is offside but his shirt is still being pulled - and is continuously pulled until he gets into the area. Therefore, it's a foul and a penalty. The only grey area for me is whether or not a foul can occur when the ball isn't in play; but I think they can. Why aren't outfield players sent off for picking up a dead ball and placing it at the point of a free kick or on the penalty spot. There is nothing in Law 12 which specifically says this is allowed when the ball is not in play. It's just assumed that when the ball is not in play it is not handball. Why is that not applicable to fouls, but is applicable to offsides? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 Just now, HKP90 said: Why aren't outfield players sent off for picking up a dead ball and placing it at the point of a free kick or on the penalty spot. There is nothing in Law 12 which specifically says this is allowed when the ball is not in play. It's just assumed that when the ball is not in play it is not handball. Why is that not applicable to fouls, but is applicable to offsides? You’re focusing on the offside part; which is wrong. You can’t handle a ball when the ball itself isn’t in play. But you can punch another player, or push another player over for pull a shirt or whatever. These will always (if spotted) be given as red cards or yellow cards. It’s slightly different in this instance because the foul isn’t given but an offside is. However, when reviewed, the foul is given instead and because it carries on into the box, it’s a penalty rather than a free kick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted February 18 VT Supporter Share Posted February 18 (edited) 19 minutes ago, bobzy said: You’re focusing on the offside part; which is wrong. You can’t handle a ball when the ball itself isn’t in play. But you can punch another player, or push another player over for pull a shirt or whatever. These will always (if spotted) be given as red cards or yellow cards. It’s slightly different in this instance because the foul isn’t given but an offside is. However, when reviewed, the foul is given instead and because it carries on into the box, it’s a penalty rather than a free kick. Well I've just read law 12 and law 3 and there is nothing specific about what fouls can and cannot be applied when the ball is in play, handball and offside inclusive. It says this: "The referee has the authority to take disciplinary action from entering the field of play for the pre-match inspection until leaving the field of play after the match ends (including penalties (penalty shoot-out))." That's it. It does not say that this is applicable for fouls such as punching, and is not applicable for other offences. If someone gets sent off for violent conduct when the ball is not in play, they don't award a free kick or penalty. They send them off without altering the pattern of play. In the same way they also don't award penalties for fouls in the box at corners until the ball is kicked. They might card or send off a player for this activity, but after they leave the field, it's still a corner. Edited February 18 by HKP90 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 10 hours ago, Zatman said: The Brentford penalty is a shocker. Other end its definitely given Seems like they want to give Klippity Klopp a parting gift of a PL title before he leaves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 37 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said: I'm assuming you mean the Ollie penalty, which I agree with. The Moreno offside was correct. He was offside, no matter how minimal. The assistant referee also put the flag up. We can't argue that VAR gets involved too much, but then also say they should be over turning on field decisions that are correct at the same time. Most commentators said he was on, Mike Dean in the Sky Studio said he was just on. You'll find the linesman flagged for Bailey not Moreno, Bailey would have been in his eyeline no way is he seeing Moreno offside, as In reality he was at worst inline. Though like I've said before, you would have to time the cross (ball being kicked/touched) by a millisecond to know Moreno was offside there, an at the moment it cannot be done. There is no way you can call inline or millimetres offside for me, it's physics (something Howard Webb and his crew would have no idea about, or take into account), an due to the issue ive explained above, not a chance, we are being taken for mugs really With offside this close, im not sure why they dont stop f**** about for 5+ minutes and call it onside, make the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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