The Video Assistant Referee (VAR)

[Davkaus]

36 minutes ago, fightoffyour said:

Good point, you'd never see anything like this outside the box.

The value of penalties and the apparent ease at which certain teams can win them has meant that football has splintered into two versions inside and outside the box, and this has only been amplified since VAR with the ability to slow motion replay everything. But not to find dives no, to actually look for any minimal contact to justify giving penalties!

Even more bizarre is that while this is going, perfectly decent goals are being scrutinised under a fine comb for any possible reason in the entire passage of play before the ball going in the net to disallow that goal!

We seem to have morphed into a situation where we like to award penalties that decide matches for completely unnatural motions but don't reward actual football. Wonderful.

Couldn't agree more with this, I made the exact same point in the thread covering the Everton game, where a very minor feeling of hands in the back was enough for 6'2" DCL to crumple to the ground and win a penalty that was "stupid" from the defender because it's now just expected that forwards will sell a light breeze as if they've been volleyed in the jaw.

Despite the consequences being far more severe, it's now easier to win a foul in the box than it is anywhere else on the pitch, and there's basically two sets of rules for what a foul is. It's mad. The refs, IFAB and PGMOL have completely **** up this "contact sport". And the worst part is that it's so normalised that if you are clearly fouled but don't partake in the theatrics, it just doesn't get given, and it's incredibly rare to be punished for simulation, so these days you're mad to not fall over in the box if someone coughs near you. Except from corners, where it's ok to shove, pull and wrestle people, until the ball is in play. **** if I know why.

Edited May 3, 2023 by Davkaus

[StefanAVFC]

17 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

Couldn't agree more with this, I made the exact same point in the thread covering the Everton game, where a very minor feeling of hands in the back was enough for 6'2" DCL to crumple to the ground and win a penalty that was "stupid" from the defender because it's now just expected that forwards will sell a light breeze as if they've been volleyed in the jaw.

Despite the consequences being far more severe, it's now easier to win a foul in the box than it is anywhere else on the pitch, and there's basically two sets of rules for what a foul is. It's mad. The refs, IFAB and PGMOL have completely **** up this "contact sport". And the worst part is that it's so normalised that if you are clearly fouled but don't partake in the theatrics, it just doesn't get given, and it's incredibly rare to be punished for simulation, so these days you're mad to not fall over in the box if someone coughs near you. Except from corners, where it's ok to shove, pull and wrestle people, until the ball is in play. **** if I know why.

Bang on. Print this and mail it straight to the idiots at PGMOL

[bobzy]

1 hour ago, villa4europe said:

Do you think that's given 100/100 around every ground for every team in the PL?

Or do you think that's given for 6 teams in the league predominantly when they're at home? Maybe even 2 home teams in particular

That's where the PL is at

Liverpool at anfield and man utd at OT win that penalty, probably Harry Kane too, other than that I'm not convinced, Ollie Watkins got sent off for less

This favoured team nonsense is utter bollocks.

[MrBlack]

56 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

Couldn't agree more with this, I made the exact same point in the thread covering the Everton game, where a very minor feeling of hands in the back was enough for 6'2" DCL to crumple to the ground and win a penalty that was "stupid" from the defender because it's now just expected that forwards will sell a light breeze as if they've been volleyed in the jaw.

Despite the consequences being far more severe, it's now easier to win a foul in the box than it is anywhere else on the pitch, and there's basically two sets of rules for what a foul is. It's mad. The refs, IFAB and PGMOL have completely **** up this "contact sport". And the worst part is that it's so normalised that if you are clearly fouled but don't partake in the theatrics, it just doesn't get given, and it's incredibly rare to be punished for simulation, so these days you're mad to not fall over in the box if someone coughs near you. Except from corners, where it's ok to shove, pull and wrestle people, until the ball is in play. **** if I know why.

Love this. Football is in a weird place with its rules at the moment. And it's not a good one. 

I wanted VAR. The Lampard goal against Germany that wasn't given, the handball by Henry that scammed France a victory. Some hugely important, possibly once in a lifetime,  tournament impacting decisions that were blatantly wrong and easily overturned in a matter of seconds. 

What we have is a convoluted mess that punishes more often than it rewards, gets things obviously wrong, and rewards things that make the game worse. How they messed it up so bad is a mystery.

 

Fixes for it? Who knows.  If you can't make a decision after watching a replay once from each available angle the original decision should stand? Automate the offside decisions. Sack off interfering with play? Book players that dive.

[rodders0223]

Big teams at big grounds get big decisions. Always have.

If VAR aren't overturning them then it absolutely is corrupt.

[villa4europe]

5 hours ago, bobzy said:

This favoured team nonsense is utter bollocks.

Because you use the word "favoured"

I'd lean more towards most pressured

Playing at anfield that's a home team penalty, Liverpool get it Fulham don't

[villa4europe]

5 hours ago, MrBlack said:

Love this. Football is in a weird place with its rules at the moment. And it's not a good one. 

I wanted VAR. The Lampard goal against Germany that wasn't given, the handball by Henry that scammed France a victory. Some hugely important, possibly once in a lifetime,  tournament impacting decisions that were blatantly wrong and easily overturned in a matter of seconds. 

What we have is a convoluted mess that punishes more often than it rewards, gets things obviously wrong, and rewards things that make the game worse. How they messed it up so bad is a mystery.

 

Fixes for it? Who knows.  If you can't make a decision after watching a replay once from each available angle the original decision should stand? Automate the offside decisions. Sack off interfering with play? Book players that dive.

The fix for me is the PL look to overhaul PGMOL

Its not fit for purpose

[a-k]

8 hours ago, fightoffyour said:

Good point, you'd never see anything like this outside the box.

The value of penalties and the apparent ease at which certain teams can win them has meant that football has splintered into two versions inside and outside the box, and this has only been amplified since VAR with the ability to slow motion replay everything. But not to find dives no, to actually look for any minimal contact to justify giving penalties!

Even more bizarre is that while this is going, perfectly decent goals are being scrutinised under a fine comb for any possible reason in the entire passage of play before the ball going in the net to disallow that goal!

We seem to have morphed into a situation where we like to award penalties that decide matches for completely unnatural motions but don't reward actual football. Wonderful.

I don't disagree with any of this, but there was no unnatural motion or manufactured contact last night. If he doesn't try and hurdle Diop's leg, there's a big collision. If his leg isn't extended that far back at that specific freezeframe, it's because there's contact literally a split second earlier. People complain about slowing down replays in slow-motion and picking out single frames, but that's exactly what people are doing in this case. There's no way in real time he can adjust his leg with that momentum in mid-air within milliseconds. You can probably find worse "dives" from every other match this season.

I've said on here many times in the past that I would like to see indirect FKs return instead of automatically awarding a penalty. It's an unfortunate situation, but you know what would have avoided this? If Diop just cleared the damn ball. It's his own fault for putting the referees in that spot in the first place.

[Guest av1]

2 hours ago, villa4europe said:

Because you use the word "favoured"

I'd lean more towards most pressured

 

100% this. The Brighton fiasco against Spurs was almost forgotten about as soon the final whistle was blown. If “one of the big clubs” had 2 perfectly good goals ruled out and 2 stone wall penalties waved away we’d still be reading about it, and most likely have saw a VAR overhaul. 
 

I don’t think they are corrupt, just scared of the reaction from certain clubs. If a decision could go either way it’s far easier for them to give it in favour of the “big club”

[jimmygreaves]

2 hours ago, villa4europe said:

Because you use the word "favoured"

I'd lean more towards most pressured

Playing at anfield that's a home team penalty, Liverpool get it Fulham don't

Nah, it's bent. The "glamour" clubs get way more soft decisions from VAR.

I'm still stunned at the McGuire handball from a few weeks back that wasn't given.

VAR works pretty well on other leagues. Was mostly excellent at the world cup and euros.

In the premier league it's bent and the "bigger" teams get protected. As every week goes by it gets more and more obvious.

[foreveryoung]

I'm not 100% sure to use the word corruption, but what is true is they will always want the 'big" teams at the top of the table, your Man U's, City, Liverpool. These are the teams that if in Champions League, Europa league bring the big revenue and eyes to the Prem. Its no good having Brighton get Champions League football or even Europe with there 20k fans and cheap sponsors, it's not worth shit. 

It's blatantly obvious Newcastle are being talked about as much as possible and looked after now, its certain Brighton wouldn't get the same attention if up there.

[TreeVillan]

10 hours ago, Davkaus said:

Except from corners, where it's ok to shove, pull and wrestle people, until the ball is in play. **** if I know why.

It would be weird to give fouls when the ball is out of play. 

Also in defence of the officials they do pull players up for being overly aggressive during the set piece build up. I see it every game where a team has a corner for example and as soon as the ball is played the ref will call a foul because they didn't listen.  

[bobzy]

4 hours ago, villa4europe said:

Because you use the word "favoured"

I'd lean more towards most pressured

Playing at anfield that's a home team penalty, Liverpool get it Fulham don't

 

1 hour ago, av1 said:

100% this. The Brighton fiasco against Spurs was almost forgotten about as soon the final whistle was blown. If “one of the big clubs” had 2 perfectly good goals ruled out and 2 stone wall penalties waved away we’d still be reading about it, and most likely have saw a VAR overhaul. 
I don’t think they are corrupt, just scared of the reaction from certain clubs. If a decision could go either way it’s far easier for them to give it in favour of the “big club”

 

1 hour ago, jimmygreaves said:

Nah, it's bent. The "glamour" clubs get way more soft decisions from VAR.

I'm still stunned at the McGuire handball from a few weeks back that wasn't given.

VAR works pretty well on other leagues. Was mostly excellent at the world cup and euros.

In the premier league it's bent and the "bigger" teams get protected. As every week goes by it gets more and more obvious.

I think there's definitely something in home sides getting the advantage in decisions, but I don't think it's to do with "big clubs" at all.  They're just the ones we remember because confirmation bias is good.

You only need to look at the Soucek handball against Chelsea.  If that happens at Stamford Bridge, it may well be a penalty.  But it doesn't, it happens at the London Stadium and it's not given.  The "big club" didn't get the decision.

Man Utd have had 2 penalties awarded this season.  Liverpool have had 4.  Villa have had 3.  Man City are top of the tree with 9, followed by Brentford and West Ham (8), Fulham (7) and Brighton, Spurs and Forest (5).  You'd naturally expect the more attacking teams to get more penalties, but if there was a real big club bias here, this data would be very skewed that way - it just isn't.

[VILLAMARV]

why do we need any of it shrouded in secrecy miles away from anywhere?

It's one of the few things Rugby got right when it went pro.

Mic them up and lets hear the chat between officials on and off the field and hear the logic behind the why. Rightly or wrongly we can then move on

Transparancy is what we need imo

[Villaphan04]

 

 

[Zatman]

The Xhaka brothers are still struggling to understand how VAR works. Ref gave him a 2nd yellow card and then bizarrely had to call him back from the changing room to reverse it to a straight red after the VAR check

 

[foreveryoung]

Dermot Gallagher on SSN. "yes the ref made a mistake with the handball in the Man U game, the rule needs changing, but lets just go with it and see what happens next season"  O

Okay mate, so if we miss out on European football next season cause that last minute handball is not given, no problem as it'll change next season. Gets tied in knots every week this guy trying his best to back up his mates, such a poor answer to the problem.

[StefanAVFC]

Penalty overturned in the CL that wouldn’t be overturned in the PL due to the VAR directive that any contact means no review. Brilliant decision. 

[Zatman]

28 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Penalty overturned in the CL that wouldn’t be overturned in the PL due to the VAR directive that any contact means no review. Brilliant decision. 

Gerrard thought it was a penalty 

[BG_Villa_Fan]

Perfect way to use VAR in the Milan vs Inter game. Ref saw there’s minimal contact and it’d have been the easiest decision to go with a penalty that he had already awarded but common sense prevailed. 
Shows once again it’s an advantage when used smartly and with the proper amount of context and sense instead of blindly relying on stupid concepts like ‘clear and obvious’ or whatever it was.