lapal_fan Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Has anyone asked a black guy if he's offended yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 What even is this thread? People are unironically asking why black people can use the N word but they can't Why are people so insistent on offending people? It's so perplexing. Not only that, but they don't want to be called racist or even simply a dickhead for it either? You can't have your cake and eat it too. It's basically "let me offend you, and stfu and take it n****r." You can say or do whatever the ***** you want, but that doesn't shield you from criticism for it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 3 hours ago, Stevo985 said: It’s not a new word. Everybody knows what blackface is. Also the bo selecta characters didn’t wear makeup I don’t think. It was masks and wigs. So that’s probably why. Ah, so blackface only counts if there’s make up touching the skin, gotcha! If Griezman had worn a rubber mask of a black man he’d have escaped censure completely. Riiiiiiight. Not sure where Bo Selecta fits in, because the bottom half of the face is a mask as you say, but the forehead is makeup. Half a racist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straggler Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 The shit has a very awful racist history, tf is so hard to understand about that? You can still do it if you absolutely must, it's not outlawed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 15 minutes ago, Straggler said: So basically, due to historic oppression, white people can’t make jokes about black people as it can’t be trusted there is no ill intent? Isn’t this a little racist in itself if so? Guilt by association. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post maqroll Posted December 21, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted December 21, 2017 Perhaps this fictional scenario might be illuminating: Imagine if Africans colonized (sorry Tony) Europe and set up a slave trade, shipping white Europeans to Africa and subjecting them to some of the most brutal, immoral, violent and inhumane treatment imaginable. They separate families, punish them for speaking their native languages and practicing their traditions. The slavers gang rape the men in front of their families. They gang rape the women in front of their families. They gang rape the young children in front of their families. They whip, chain, hang, torture, and burn alive the white slaves. They bury them alive. Forcing them to work 18 hours a day is a respite from the aforementioned brutality. The white slaves eventually win their freedom, but are immediately relegated to second class citizenship. They are terrorized (sorry Tony) by cloaked riders in the night. They are lynched without trial. They are denied the right to vote and denied education. Hospitals refuse them admission. They are humiliated in minstrel shows, where the Africans paint their faces white and wear blond wigs, and use cheap stereotypes to garner laughs and perpetuate the idea of the subhuman white, which they use to justify repressive laws and codes. Imagine 150 years later, when whites are still fighting for their rights, and Europe is still struggling, blacks are still occasionally seen painting their faces to mock whites. How would it make you feel? 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 21, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Risso said: Ah, so blackface only counts if there’s make up touching the skin, gotcha! If Griezman had worn a rubber mask of a black man he’d have escaped censure completely. Riiiiiiight. Not sure where Bo Selecta fits in, because the bottom half of the face is a mask as you say, but the forehead is makeup. Half a racist? Yes. Blackface is makeup. I don’t think they wore any makeup in bo selecta. Might be wrong. Maybe they did at times for other characters. I’m going by memory. Not sure why you’ve taken the tone you have. I was only answering your post. my opinion on the whole thing comes back to my original post. A load of white blokes on the internet cant decide what offends black people. If black people are offended by people blacking up, then you probably shouldn’t do it. Edited December 21, 2017 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 9 minutes ago, penguin said: So basically, due to historic oppression, white people can’t make jokes about black people as it can’t be trusted there is no ill intent? Isn’t this a little racist in itself if so? Guilt by association. You can still do it. People taking offence to it doesn't mean it's illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) Nice point and well written but it seems like a bit of a strawman argument. There’s a difference (in terms of face paint) between race being the point of mockery and it simply being used to look more like someone. Absolutely no one is defending the former. Edit. - Response to @maqroll lost quote when posting Edited December 21, 2017 by penguin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 "Stop taking offence to what I do, you're oppressing me" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Keyblade said: "Stop taking offence to what I do, you're oppressing me" Are you okay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, penguin said: There’s a difference (in terms of face paint) between race being the point of mockery and it simply being used to look more like someone. I agree, but it's still sloppy behavior in the light of historical context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 The thread ended when someone posted this video tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 I like Coates. He just deleted his Twitter account after a row with Cornell West, coming of that Guardian interview. Interesting stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leemond2008 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 17 minutes ago, maqroll said: Perhaps this fictional scenario might be illuminating: Imagine if Africans colonized (sorry Tony) Europe and set up a slave trade, shipping white Europeans to Africa and subjecting them to some of the most brutal, immoral, violent and inhumane treatment imaginable. They separate families, punish them for speaking their native languages and practicing their traditions. The slavers gang rape the men in front of their families. They gang rape the women in front of their families. They gang rape the young children in front of their families. They whip, chain, hang, torture, and burn alive the white slaves. They bury them alive. Forcing them to work 18 hours a day is a respite from the aforementioned brutality. The white slaves eventually win their freedom, but are immediately relegated to second class citizenship. They are terrorized (sorry Tony) by cloaked riders in the night. They are lynched without trial. They are denied the right to vote and denied education. Hospitals refuse them admission. They are humiliated in minstrel shows, where the Africans paint their faces white and wear blond wigs, and use cheap stereotypes to garner laughs and perpetuate the idea of the subhuman white, which they use to justify repressive laws and codes. Imagine 150 years later, when whites are still fighting for their rights, and Europe is still struggling, blacks are still occasionally seen painting their faces to mock whites. How would it make you feel? well, growing up in the world that you have just painted....it wouldn't actually bother me. I don't know my great grandads name, I don't know my great grandmas name...live for today and not tomorrow and certainly not yesterday, I'm on an equal footing with people of all colours, if a black dude wants to paint himself white who am I to stop him? That black dude could white his face up put on a wig and pick up a guitar and grab a Japanese bird and call himself John Lennon for the night, he didn't enslave my ancestors, let him show his appreciation. obviously thats just me, couldn't give two sharp shiny ****. now if this thread were about gingers...oh my god...jaws would be getting volleyed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veloman Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) re. Maqroll' s post; I may be quite wrong about this but didn't The Romans do something like this to the British a few hundred years earlier ? Edited December 21, 2017 by veloman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted December 21, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted December 21, 2017 Bo Selecta is complicated. Bo Selecta's 'comedy' came from the fact it was a bad caricature (the Mel B one is so bad I genuinely couldn't tell you who that was meant to be if I didn't already know), not pointing at them being black but badly attacking their public persona. It also went for figures whose race hasn't really been relevant to their persona - neither are notable for being 'black' people in their field, their career, fame isn't entwined with their race. It's still close to blackface but skirts around it. I wouldn't personally have done it in Leigh Francis's shoes but I'm not a comedian and didn't find Bo Selecta funny. Whereas the Abbott thing... You're immediately in dodgy ground anyway when you go to black up because the history is not good, and then you're adding in the fact that you're doing it as a public figure who has been associated with their race indelibly in their career, and does have the whiff of prejudices around criticism of her and her portrayal (as said, she gets disproportionate attacks and IMO often much more venomous ones as well). Your basically taking some petrol and dancing round out with a lighter. Griezemann doesn't have the same connotations obviously but again blacking up and going full on afro wig with it isn't a smart move because the practice is from a time that really shouldn't be accepted anymore. Just don't do it. And if you do, you're asking for criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PompeyVillan Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 46 minutes ago, penguin said: Nice point and well written but it seems like a bit of a strawman argument. There’s a difference (in terms of face paint) between race being the point of mockery and it simply being used to look more like someone. Absolutely no one is defending the former. Edit. - Response to @maqroll lost quote when posting In this instance you can't separate the two because of the nature of the caricature. It's a problematic portrayal of Diane Abbott, one in which the racists who abuse her will heartily approve. That's where the criticism stems from. At best it's ill advised and ignorant, at worst it's outright racist. I'll pin it ignorant and desperate for attention. And not funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 27 minutes ago, veloman said: re. Maqroll' s post; I may be quite wrong about this but didn't The Romans do something like this to the British a few hundred tears earlier ? Yes. As did many invading armies in many places. What's your point, caller? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts