Popular Post Straggler Posted December 21, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted December 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Rugeley Villa said: I have massive problems with that statement. If you do then all it shows is that you have not read any of the supporting material that has been posted on this very thread. To sum it up black face was invented and designed specifically to denigrate and abuse from a position of power to undermine an entire race. It has a history and a context that makes if a fundamentally racist thing to do even if the intent was not at it's heart racist. A black person donning white makeup does not have any of that context so is on average not considered harmful. The question for me is not so much that every person who dons black makeup is a racist, it can be done by people who genuinely don't know how it will be interpreted, the real question is, once you have been shown the history and have an understanding of the issues do you take into consideration the feelings of others and moderate your behavior? 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Rugeley Villa said: I have massive problems with that statement. I’m sure you do. In an ideal world without a history of slavery and abuse, you’d be right. For now, Jim Crow is a bit too recent history for me to accept that it’s even remotely the same. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 I remember sitting through a training session run by an idiot who would insist that the word Paki wasn't racist, just a shortening of the word Pakistani and couldn't understand that it's not necessarily the word itself, but the way it's been used over the years that makes it offensive. It's similar to this really, I can see why it's offensive, though I admit I found it funny on a satirical level. I do often laugh at racist or any stereotype jokes anyway, I think there is a line between making fun and genuine hatred that I can tell from a mile off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Risso Posted December 21, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted December 21, 2017 17 minutes ago, Straggler said: If you do then all it shows is that you have not read any of the supporting material that has been posted on this very thread. To sum it up black face was invented and designed specifically to denigrate and abuse from a position of power to undermine an entire race. It has a history and a context that makes if a fundamentally racist thing to do even if the intent was not at it's heart racist. A black person donning white makeup does not have any of that context so is on average not considered harmful. The question for me is not so much that every person who dons black makeup is a racist, it can be done by people who genuinely don't know how it will be interpreted, the real question is, once you have been shown the history and have an understanding of the issues do you take into consideration the feelings of others and moderate your behavior? I think that conflating the two things is inherently wrong though. Griezman clearly wasn't trying to denigrate an entire race, he was going to a fancy dress party as one of his sporting heroes. His skin colour is different to that of the person he was dressing up as, so he had to put make up on. Surely racism has to have some intent, or at least some sort of negative statement about race behind it? How has equality been achieved if we're saying that it's not OK to dress up as another person, just because they have a different skin colour? 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 For me Griezmann wasn't being racist at all (no idea on the bloke from the darts - probably a massive racist tbf). However, the action itself is historically racist and that's why it should be left well alone. Ultimately it is up to black people themselves to decide whether they find it offensive or not and that will be an individual choice. The majority of my black mates find it offensive. So I will leave it to them to decide for themselves. One thing that does strike me about Abbott is that she gets absolutely crucified for getting the numbers wrong and rightly so. However, people like Boris Johnson, David Davis, Gove, Hammond, Bradley, Rudd etc make massive blunders they do not get the same level of abuse. Yes they are crticised but not to the same level of hatred and disdain. Ultimately, I believe, that this is because Abbot is black and the way she looks. Let's not forget Abbott has done some amazing things to get to where she has got to (I don't mean Corbyn). She has fought prejudice, racism and the system. She has made amazing speeches and done amazing things for her constituency. None of those aforementioned have done anything of note. They are, for the main, career politicians who have contributed very little to society. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 6 minutes ago, omariqy said: However, people like Boris Johnson, David Davis, Gove, Hammond, Bradley, Rudd etc make massive blunders they do not get the same level of abuse you need to have a look in the Tory thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 this thread made me think of this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Risso said: Griezman clearly wasn't trying to denigrate an entire race, he was going to a fancy dress party as one of his sporting heroes. Was he? Which particular Harlem Globetrotter was he going as? From what I've seen, he just said he was a fan of the Harlem Globetrotters. Could have just wanged the kit on then. It would be clearly distinguishable as being a tribute to the Harlem Globetrotters. Edited December 21, 2017 by snowychap 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 29 minutes ago, Risso said: How has equality been achieved if we're saying that it's not OK to dress up as another person, just because they have a different skin colour? Exactly! How long do we have to let history dictate to us what's right and wrong these days. Times have changed and we've moved on so much from all of that. I honestly think this race card will still be played in a thousand years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) I really dispair at how we are becoming. You cant even go to a dfancy dress party as a celebrity you like who is a different skin colour to you. Whats next get offended of going to parties as smurfs? I mean look at the movie "white chicks" two black guys play white girls? Do I find that racist as a white person? Nope not at all. In fact I was watching it last night and I think its absolutely hilarious film. if we cant deem that as racist then why is the race card getting played here by some peoples on social media? On 12/20/2017 at 06:29, Jon said: White people 'blacking up' to mock a black person (which is what has hapeened here) is pretty racist in my book. So then white chicks the movie is racist in your eyes also? Edited December 21, 2017 by Demitri_C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: Exactly! How long do we have to let history dictate to us what's right and wrong these days. Times have changed and we've moved on so much from all of that. I honestly think this race card will still be played in a thousand years. Are you seriously suggesting that there are not issues that still abound to do with race? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 24 minutes ago, omariqy said: (no idea on the bloke from the darts - probably a massive racist tbf). And here we have the problem. You are stereotyping someone yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dAVe80 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 I'm a little disappointed by some of the things I've read on this thread. Think I'll give it a swerve for now. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, snowychap said: Are you seriously suggesting that there are not issues that still abound to do with race? Never said there weren't any issues around still, but we've moved on massively. Are there any incidents of the white race being persecuted? The point that's already been made is that we need to stop being so easily offended over something so stupid. Some people like to get offended for the sake of it though. Edited December 21, 2017 by Rugeley Villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 34 minutes ago, omariqy said: For me Griezmann wasn't being racist at all (no idea on the bloke from the darts - probably a massive racist tbf). However, the action itself is historically racist and that's why it should be left well alone. Ultimately it is up to black people themselves to decide whether they find it offensive or not and that will be an individual choice. The majority of my black mates find it offensive. So I will leave it to them to decide for themselves. One thing that does strike me about Abbott is that she gets absolutely crucified for getting the numbers wrong and rightly so. However, people like Boris Johnson, David Davis, Gove, Hammond, Bradley, Rudd etc make massive blunders they do not get the same level of abuse. Yes they are crticised but not to the same level of hatred and disdain. Ultimately, I believe, that this is because Abbot is black and the way she looks. Let's not forget Abbott has done some amazing things to get to where she has got to (I don't mean Corbyn). She has fought prejudice, racism and the system. She has made amazing speeches and done amazing things for her constituency. None of those aforementioned have done anything of note. They are, for the main, career politicians who have contributed very little to society. I suppose that depends on your political viewpoint. To me Abbott is a moronic, hypocritical racist, completely unfit to be [shadow] Home Secretary. She's only outdone in the unfit-for-their-roles stakes by David Davis and John McDonnell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Rugeley Villa said: Are there any incidents of the white race being persecuted? As you're the one volunteering this as a comeback to my question then perhaps you ought to give examples and outline your ideas of how, where and when 'the white race' is being or has been persecuted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 16 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: And here we have the problem. You are stereotyping someone yourself. Oh come on I said that in jest. I don't actually know if the guy is racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 37 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: you need to have a look in the Tory thread Pretty sure none of them have been racially abused. Just today BNP have sent out a Xmas card saying save our white christmas with Diane Abbot dressed as Santa. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) 15 minutes ago, snowychap said: As you're the one volunteering this as a comeback to my question then perhaps you ought to give examples and outline your ideas of how, where and when 'the white race' is being or has been persecuted? I asked the question because I thought you might of known. I think white people have to carry the burden for things that happened in the past, so in a sense that is persecution.We have to be careful in what's we say and do because it gets slammed down as racist, but it's ok for a black person to do stuff. We can't even fly a flag for fear of being labelled racist. It's ok for a black person to call another black person a nigger, but if a white person did this there would be hell on and rightly so. I find black people just as racist as white people. I find that some of the more unsavoury ones will quickly play the race card which is a disgrace on many levels. Edited December 21, 2017 by Rugeley Villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 7 minutes ago, omariqy said: Pretty sure none of them have been racially abused. Just today BNP have sent out a Xmas card saying save our white christmas with Diane Abbot dressed as Santa. No surprise there then. Racists being racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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