Popular Post Chindie Posted December 21, 2017 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted December 21, 2017 Also people using a correct term for something whether they knew its context 20 years ago or heard it this morning has less than no relevance and is just sneering. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 51 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: Zimbabwe? That's the only one that comes to mind. I weren't saying white people have been heavily persecuted, I was just asking a question. You were talking about the 'white race being persecuted'. Not about 'heavily' or about 'white people'. How does post-colonial Zimbabwe represent a good example of this and something relevant to the discussion that we are having? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, snowychap said: You were talking about the 'white race being persecuted'. Not about 'heavily' or about 'white people'. How does post-colonial Zimbabwe represent a good example of this and something relevant to the discussion that we are having? It happened though, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Risso said: There's that word again, "blackface". Everybody's using it this week as if it's a phrase they've been using for years, rather than just because it's been repeated ad infinitum on Twitter this week. Context is absolutely everything. As I asked before, where were the accusations of "blackface" when Leigh Francis was dressing up as Mel B and Craig David? Just because you have only heard the term this week doesn’t mean everyone else did as well. There have been plenty of high profile examples I can think of from Australia. Do a google search for ‘Serena Williams Blackface’ or ‘Red Faces Blackface’ for more example from a few years back. Edited December 21, 2017 by LondonLax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: It happened though, right? What 'happened though, right'? Edit: I've had a bit more thought on the relevance of an example such as Zimbabwe. Though I've already confessed that I'm no expert (or even any sort of proficient amateur) on Zimbabwe (or Africa in general) so I'm cautious about trying to infer things from detail that I don't possess (which is rather why I'm pushing you for the detail as it seems to have informed a very specific stance for you), I think there is some relevance and I'd like to try and flesh that out a bit. It'll have to wait though until I've thought it through a bit more and until I've had lunch. Edited December 21, 2017 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 2 hours ago, snowychap said: As you're the one volunteering this as a comeback to my question then perhaps you ought to give examples and outline your ideas of how, where and when 'the white race' is being or has been persecuted? There is racism but its not just one way it happens black on white, white on black, white on asian etc. But I would say a lot is being done to try cut down on this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 13 minutes ago, snowychap said: What 'happened though, right'? Edit: I've had a bit more thought on the relevance of an example such as Zimbabwe. Though I've already confessed that I'm no expert (or even any sort of proficient amateur) on Zimbabwe (or Africa in general) so I'm cautious about trying to infer things from detail that I don't possess (which is rather why I'm pushing you for the detail as it seems to have informed a very specific stance for you), I think there is some relevance and I'd like to try and flesh that out a bit. It'll have to wait though until I've thought it through a bit more and until I've had lunch. I'm far from being an expert and it's hardly a stance. You asked for an example of white people being persecuted and I gave you one. Enjoy your lunch, I'm just going out for lunch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 3 hours ago, Demitri_C said: I really dispair at how we are becoming. You cant even go to a dfancy dress party as a celebrity you like who is a different skin colour to you. Whats next get offended of going to parties as smurfs? When you say 'you can't even go to a fancy dress party as a celebrity you like who is a different skin colour to you', you make it sound like it's a really frequent part of your free time or something. Why don't we try leaving the word 'racism' out of the discussion for a second. There are all sorts of things I don't do, largely because they're considered rude or upsetting by other people. Why don't I pick my nose at the dinner table, or fart in a crowded lift, or teach English classes in the nude? Any or all of these might be things I did in a world where nobody was bothered by them, but sadly I have to share society with other people, too. Increasingly large numbers of people are saying that they find people wearing black face paint to be rude, upsetting and offensive. If we don't want to use the word 'racist', then I can think of other words to describe someone who attends a party and delights in being offensive to people there. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) 19 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: When you say 'you can't even go to a fancy dress party as a celebrity you like who is a different skin colour to you', you make it sound like it's a really frequent part of your free time or something. Well firstly I have been to many parties where that has happened. A black guy went as deadpool and underneath he coloured his skin white. I thought it was sheer brilliance and everyone laughed and found it great idea as it was different. I went to another party when a group of guys went as jackson 5 (with black skin face paint) they were doing all this wacky stuff. everyone thought it was fantastic Quote Why don't we try leaving the word 'racism' out of the discussion for a second. There are all sorts of things I don't do, largely because they're considered rude or upsetting by other people. Why don't I pick my nose at the dinner table, or fart in a crowded lift, or teach English classes in the nude? Any or all of these might be things I did in a world where nobody was bothered by them, but sadly I have to share society with other people, too. Your examples are more basic manners and hygiene than racism. I think there is a big difference between farting or sneezing all over someone than going to a fancy dress party dressed as a celebrity of your choice. i would like to think people do it for fun than to offend anyone. Quote Increasingly large numbers of people are saying that they find people wearing black face paint to be rude, upsetting and offensive. If we don't want to use the word 'racist', then I can think of other words to describe someone who attends a party and delights in being offensive to people there. I would like it explained to me why it offends them and why it is "racist" if you are mocking and making fun of the person. Lets say you dressed up as samuel davis junior and you were tatty clothes or something like in slavery gear. I completely get that, that is completely wrong racist and completely out of order. But going as a celebrity or sports man in their item of clothing I just dont see how that is offensive whatsoever. Edited December 21, 2017 by Demitri_C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted December 21, 2017 Moderator Share Posted December 21, 2017 11 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: When you say 'you can't even go to a fancy dress party as a celebrity you like who is a different skin colour to you', you make it sound like it's a really frequent part of your free time or something. Why don't we try leaving the word 'racism' out of the discussion for a second. There are all sorts of things I don't do, largely because they're considered rude or upsetting by other people. Why don't I pick my nose at the dinner table, or fart in a crowded lift, or teach English classes in the nude? Any or all of these might be things I did in a world where nobody was bothered by them, but sadly I have to share society with other people, too. Increasingly large numbers of people are saying that they find people wearing black face paint to be rude, upsetting and offensive. If we don't want to use the word 'racist', then I can think of other words to describe someone who attends a party and delights in being offensive to people there. Whaoo, that's a whole new slippery slope, not doing things because other people might find them offensive? No one has the right not to be offended. If people are offended by something that is perfectly legal or within the rules of say the establishment they are in or governing body of the event they are attending etc.then it's the person who is offended that must deal with it, not the person causing the offence. You start doing things or not doing things because somebody might be offended and that's one strange society Nothing better than farting in a packed lift btw 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, bickster said: Whaoo, that's a whole new slippery slope, not doing things because other people might find them offensive? No one has the right not to be offended. If people are offended by something that is perfectly legal or within the rules of say the establishment they are in or governing body of the event they are attending etc.then it's the person who is offended that must deal with it, not the person causing the offence. You start doing things or not doing things because somebody might be offended and that's one strange society Nothing better than farting in a packed lift btw I dont know whether to like or alugh this post. That last line Just hope @HanoiVillan isn't in the same lift as you! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 As well as the many other things wrong with that BNP Christmas card i'd love to know why they've changed the 't' in Christmas to a cross. Are they implying she's anti-Christianity as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Trust me, I might pretend I don't, but I'm a frequent farter for sure @bickster - I'm not in any way suggesting that there's a 'right' not to be offended. However, people who go out of their way to offend other people are often dickheads. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean that you should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 6 minutes ago, sexbelowsound said: As well as the many other things wrong with that BNP Christmas card i'd love to know why they've changed the 't' in Christmas to a cross. Are they implying she's anti-Christianity as well? That was one of my issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 10 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Trust me, I might pretend I don't, but I'm a frequent farter for sure @bickster - I'm not in any way suggesting that there's a 'right' not to be offended. However, people who go out of their way to offend other people are often dickheads. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean that you should. But some might be going for genuine reasons. Not everyone in this world are arseholes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted December 21, 2017 Moderator Share Posted December 21, 2017 7 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Trust me, I might pretend I don't, but I'm a frequent farter for sure @bickster - I'm not in any way suggesting that there's a 'right' not to be offended. However, people who go out of their way to offend other people are often dickheads. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean that you should. Depends on the person I'd suggest. I go out of my way to offend some people. I'd quite happily snog a black woman in front of a member of the BNP even if I didn't like her. See this causing offence thing is silly, lots of times the people being offended are the ones in the wrong 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: But some might be going for genuine reasons. Not everyone in this world are arseholes! 51% are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, bickster said: Depends on the person I'd suggest. I go out of my way to offend some people. I'd quite happily snog a black woman in front of a member of the BNP even if I didn't like her. See this causing offence thing is silly, lots of times the people being offended are the ones in the wrong See Bicks is someone I could go to a party with, doesn't take him self seriously and just out for a laugh with no sinister motives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Demitri_C said: But some might be going for genuine reasons. Not everyone in this world are arseholes! I agree, most people aren't arseholes. But as I say, increasingly large numbers of people are asking others to please not black their face. I can accept that ignorance can be an excuse, once (even if not a brilliant one), but I think this issue is soon going to reach a point where people can't plausibly be ignorant, in the same way that you can't be ignorant that calling someone a 'paki' is wrong, or addressing a woman as 'bitch' or whatever. At some point, it becomes something that we have a societal expectation that You Just Don't Do It. 6 minutes ago, bickster said: Depends on the person I'd suggest. I go out of my way to offend some people. I'd quite happily snog a black woman in front of a member of the BNP even if I didn't like her. See this causing offence thing is silly, lots of times the people being offended are the ones in the wrong How often do you meet BNP members? I don't think they are a very good comparison with black people asking others not to wear blackface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 33 minutes ago, bickster said: Whaoo, that's a whole new slippery slope, not doing things because other people might find them offensive? No one has the right not to be offended. If people are offended by something that is perfectly legal or within the rules of say the establishment they are in or governing body of the event they are attending etc.then it's the person who is offended that must deal with it, not the person causing the offence. You start doing things or not doing things because somebody might be offended and that's one strange society Nothing better than farting in a packed lift btw Depends on the establishment and their rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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