Stevo985 Posted January 11, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: That isn't 'wording it poorly', that's 'being wrong'. It's not 'flirting with being racist' to acknowledge that some black people might have a problem with this advert due to its language. The point is completely illogical, and there's no way you can change the wording but leave the meaning the same and somehow become right about this. Fair enough. I may be wrong, I'll acknowledge that. FWIW the mother of the child in the advert has come out and said it's all nonsense and that people are seeing a connection that isn't there. Edited January 11, 2018 by Stevo985 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: FWIW the mother of the child in the advert has come out and said it's all nonsense and that people are seeing a connection that isn't there. I stated this earlier, if the parents are not offended I dont understand the uproar. OK H & M decided to apologise and remove. Matter ended in my eyes If it was worded cheekiest monkey in the jungle is that still racist? I have seen various kids clothes with cheeky money or a monkey on it and no one ha said a word. Whats next we going to stop taking any item of clothing with the word monkey on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCDAN Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 In this instance an apology and removal was probably the right thing to do, what worries me is the wider implications these kinds of scenarios are setting where if someone shouts loud enough companies are so worried that they instantly apologise and remove the item/service/advert etc... You could say that's a positive and that as a collective we have the power to let big companies know what we think about their actions, the problem is that the people shouting the loudest often don't represent the collective as a whole and are usually pushing their own agendas. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bickster Posted January 11, 2018 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted January 11, 2018 The parents are hardly impartial Just because the parents aren't offended doesn't mean it isn't offensive to lots of people. FWIW imo its not just the use of monkey, had it just said cheeky monkey for example it wouldn't be an issue but stick jungle into the equation and it becomes highly questionable Probably us an innocent mistake and the company took the correct course of action quite swiftly. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted January 11, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted January 11, 2018 I'd also argue there's a difference between the parents of a black child choosing to have him wear the hoodie in day to day life, and the kid wearing it as part of an advertising campaign. I don't think there's racist intent in the advert (you'd have to be really **** stupid to intentionally do that), it's simply a mistake, but the store's reaction is sensible and understandable, and should be it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 30 minutes ago, bickster said: The parents are hardly impartial Just because the parents aren't offended doesn't mean it isn't offensive to lots of people. FWIW imo its not just the use of monkey, had it just said cheeky monkey for example it wouldn't be an issue but stick jungle into the equation and it becomes highly questionable Probably us an innocent mistake and the company took the correct course of action quite swiftly. Yes but they still have a voice so are entitled to give their opinion. Regardless like you say company took appropriate action and removed. Lets just wait for the next thing to cause turmoil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turvontour Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 On 1/10/2018 at 08:43, snowychap said: That's rubbish. There is no blank slate, here. Consideration of the history of the kind of language that has been used in a pejorative way against black people is not 'being racist'. It's not just 'monkey' that is the issue in the slogan. Jungle is, too. Swap out bunny for monkey and I dare say it might be considered a shade worse by some people. Seriously, its making something out of nothing. Imagine having to explain to the child why his advert is being pulled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turvontour Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 On 1/10/2018 at 09:14, lapal_fan said: I think the problem here is; 1. Do we acknowledge the past and connotations associated with these words/phrases Or 2. Be progressive and not let the past dictate what we should or should not do now or in the future. If everyone is equal then there is nothing wrong with it. If you're aware of past prejudices, then obviously there is scope for upset. That said, i doubt a 6 year old black or white kid is aware of anything wrong with that advert. It's one of those things where you're probably waiting for 20th century people to die out and the meaning is diluted. Option 2 please - its just drawing attention to means of being racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 11, 2018 Moderator Share Posted January 11, 2018 Just now, turvontour said: Seriously, its making something out of nothing. Imagine having to explain to the child why his advert is being pulled. Throwing bananas on the pitch when West Brom played was just harmless fun too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 11, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted January 11, 2018 44 minutes ago, bickster said: The parents are hardly impartial Just because the parents aren't offended doesn't mean it isn't offensive to lots of people. FWIW imo its not just the use of monkey, had it just said cheeky monkey for example it wouldn't be an issue but stick jungle into the equation and it becomes highly questionable Probably us an innocent mistake and the company took the correct course of action quite swiftly. 24 minutes ago, Chindie said: I'd also argue there's a difference between the parents of a black child choosing to have him wear the hoodie in day to day life, and the kid wearing it as part of an advertising campaign. I don't think there's racist intent in the advert (you'd have to be really **** stupid to intentionally do that), it's simply a mistake, but the store's reaction is sensible and understandable, and should be it. Yep I agree with both of these. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 11, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted January 11, 2018 1 minute ago, bickster said: Throwing bananas on the pitch when West Brom played was just harmless fun too That's not even close to the same thing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 11, 2018 Moderator Share Posted January 11, 2018 Just now, Stevo985 said: That's not even close to the same thing. Isnt it? Jungle... monkey... banana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 The only people that create racists are racists. Little kids don't care if someone is bright purple as they as they can either play footie or Barbie. If all the adults died in the world racism would die with them and would never exist thereafter. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 11, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted January 11, 2018 1 minute ago, bickster said: Isnt it? Jungle... monkey... banana Context. A kid's jumper using the word monkey and jungle causing clearly accidental mild racist offence. vs Intentional, targeted racist abuse. yes. Not even CLOSE to being the same thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: If all the adults died in the world racism would die with them and would never exist thereafter. If only there was some sort of referendum which could have identified all of the racists... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 11, 2018 Moderator Share Posted January 11, 2018 Just now, Stevo985 said: Context. A kid's jumper using the word monkey and jungle causing clearly accidental mild racist offence. vs Intentional, targeted racist abuse. yes. Not even CLOSE to being the same thing. The point was it wasn't making something out of anything and explaining why it was pulled should be relatively easy given the history of such overt racism I remember plenty of people defending the throwing of bananas as "harmless fun" Agreed, the context isn't the same but that's arguing over the level of ignorance. Times have moved on, we are generally more enlightened. The intent wasn't the same but it doesnt make it all the less offensive and if you let things like this slide the line of acceptability moves backwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 11, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted January 11, 2018 Just now, bickster said: The point was it wasn't making something out of anything and explaining why it was pulled should be relatively easy given the history of such overt racism I remember plenty of people defending the throwing of bananas as "harmless fun" Agreed, the context isn't the same but that's arguing over the level of ignorance. Times have moved on, we are generally more enlightened. The intent wasn't the same but it doesnt make it all the less offensive and if you let things like this slide the line of acceptability moves backwards I’m not saying it should be let slide. But that doesn’t make it anywhere near the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 11, 2018 Moderator Share Posted January 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I’m not saying it should be let slide. But that doesn’t make it anywhere near the same thing. No one said you did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 45 minutes ago, Chindie said: I don't think there's racist intent in the advert (you'd have to be really **** stupid to intentionally do that), it's simply a mistake, but the store's reaction is sensible and understandable, and should be it. Indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 40 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: Little kids don't care if someone is bright purple as they as they can either play footie or Barbie. just as long as you don't gender cast which ones do which .... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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