blandy Posted June 14, 2017 Moderator Share Posted June 14, 2017 Just now, darrenm said: Neither did Conservative. Who's PM? Who's the Government? Tories,. They won. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Well Corbyn was expected to lead Labour into oblivion and by far exceeded expectations. As with a lot of things, when the underdog does very well they often come off as 'winners'. Corbyn has a lot of momentum with him and one would expect him to improve his performance should there be a (likely) generally election within the next 12 months. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 3 minutes ago, blandy said: Who's PM? Who's the Government? Tories,. They won. Still didn't win an overall majority, which is absolutely incredible considering where Labour started the election from 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted June 14, 2017 Moderator Share Posted June 14, 2017 Just now, darrenm said: Still didn't win an overall majority, which is absolutely incredible considering where Labour started the election from Agreed. Lots of things about it were very surprising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 45 minutes ago, darrenm said: Neither did Conservative. They did as she is still PM whether we like it or not, Labour performed well but still lost the election 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted June 14, 2017 Moderator Share Posted June 14, 2017 43 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said: Well Corbyn was expected to lead Labour into oblivion and by far exceeded expectations. As with a lot of things, when the underdog does very well they often come off as 'winners'. Corbyn has a lot of momentum with him and one would expect him to improve his performance should there be a (likely) generally election within the next 12 months. That's the point, isn't it - if thecontext is all about "expectatations" (which, as we know are unreliable in the extreme) then the "expectation winners" and "expectation losers" are just a discussion point... meanwhile the actual, real, numbers are what they are and the Government is Blue, (for the third time in a row). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 1 minute ago, blandy said: That's the point, isn't it - if thecontext is all about "expectatations" (which, as we know are unreliable in the extreme) then the "expectation winners" and "expectation losers" are just a discussion point... meanwhile the actual, real, numbers are what they are and the Government is Blue, (for the third time in a row). It has to be about context because no party won an overall majority. No party actually "won" the election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Dr_Pangloss said: Well Corbyn was expected to lead Labour into oblivion and by far exceeded expectations. As with a lot of things, when the underdog does very well they often come off as 'winners'. Corbyn has a lot of momentum with him and one would expect him to improve his performance should there be a (likely) generally election within the next 12 months. I think Rebbeca Long-Bailey has just tossed that momentum out of the window by saying a labour govt would allow free movement to get a better brexit deal. To ya average bozzo in the street that means opening the floodgates to immigrants from all over the world to come here destroy our NHS, claim benefits and commit terrorist offences. (it doesn't and its entirely sensible, but you can see how that will play out) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 7 minutes ago, hippo said: I think Rebbeca Long-Bailey has just tossed that momentum out of the window by saying a labour govt would allow free movement to get a better brexit deal. To ya average bozzo in the street that means opening the floodgates to immigrants from all over the world to come here destroy our NHS, claim benefits and commit terrorist offences. (it doesn't and its entirely sensible, but you can see how that will play out) Well it possibly would do if more than 0.1% of the population knew who Rebecca Long-Bailey is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted June 14, 2017 Moderator Share Posted June 14, 2017 1 hour ago, bobzy said: It has to be about context because no party won an overall majority. No party actually "won" the election. The tories "won" - they got the most votes, the most seats and they are the government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 1 hour ago, blandy said: That's the point, isn't it - if thecontext is all about "expectatations" (which, as we know are unreliable in the extreme) then the "expectation winners" and "expectation losers" are just a discussion point... meanwhile the actual, real, numbers are what they are and the Government is Blue, (for the third time in a row). While what you say is correct, I think winners and losers in this election is going to be a pretty fluid concept. Labour squeaking a small majority and having to deal with the next few years in a situation for which there is no way out which leaves them looking competent would have been the worst scenario apart from a hammering. This way the owners of the mess are the ones who created it - and hopefully this result emboldens the other parties enough to let everyone know it, very loudly. A Labour-led Government would have just given them the easy excuse of "well, it would have worked fine if you hadn't voted those terrorist Communists in to do it", and they don't deserve that option. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted June 14, 2017 Moderator Share Posted June 14, 2017 Looks like Theresa May might be looking for a new, new advisor after events in London. Gavin Barwell is likely to be as toxic as... oh I don't know.... threatening people's home's through a social care tax. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dAVe80 Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 CLP meeting on Saturday. It's going to be fun! Yes we won, but our MP has a lot of difficult questions to answer. Unfortunately, I don't think I have time to buy a Jezza t-shirt to wear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted June 14, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted June 14, 2017 42 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Well it possibly would do if more than 0.1% of the population knew who Rebecca Long-Bailey is. Don't worry, The Mail and The Sun will tell them soon enough. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 50 minutes ago, mjmooney said: Don't worry, The Mail and The Sun will tell them soon enough. They already have ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itdoesntmatterwhatthissay Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 1 hour ago, hippo said: I think Rebbeca Long-Bailey has just tossed that momentum out of the window by saying a labour govt would allow free movement to get a better brexit deal. To ya average bozzo in the street that means opening the floodgates to immigrants from all over the world to come here destroy our NHS, claim benefits and commit terrorist offences. (it doesn't and its entirely sensible, but you can see how that will play out) If you're basing that assumption on Brexit then I think you need to rethink it. Immigration did not play as big a part in Brexit as the average bozo in a forum seems to think (jokes). Corbyn may be a good example of that. The reason Labour did so well is because they finally changed the direction of politics in the country, something Blair/Brown/Miliband weren't willing to do. That message is not going away and it will chip away at the Conservatives because they might not be brave enough to embrace reality/change. I'm not sure if it's enough to win an election outright but the results in Scotland aren't discouraging if you're a betting man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 I find this "who has won. Who has lost" line quite infantile. It adds little. It's what someone who knew nothing about politics or Government, or a 6 year old, might ask. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted June 14, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted June 14, 2017 Remember the margin of victory in the Brexit referendum was pretty narrow. And while the hardcore Leavers wouldn't change their minds, I think there is a significant minority among them that would. Whereas I doubt if any Remainers would switch sides. So trying to smear Corbyn for being soft Brexiter won't work, imo. If anything, now people have had time to think, it might even work in his favour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 1 hour ago, mjmooney said: Don't worry, The Mail and The Sun will tell them soon enough. It might be 0.5% now then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted June 14, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted June 14, 2017 10 minutes ago, mjmooney said: Remember the margin of victory in the Brexit referendum was pretty narrow. And while the hardcore Leavers wouldn't change their minds, I think there is a significant minority among them that would. Whereas I doubt if any Remainers would switch sides. So trying to smear Corbyn for being soft Brexiter won't work, imo. If anything, now people have had time to think, it might even work in his favour. I believe the stats show that most Remain voters now just want to get on with it and have accepted the result. I'm not sure Corbyn is a soft Brexiter either. He supports leaving the single market iirc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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