sharkyvilla Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 9 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Prediction: This coalition won't last, election by the end of 2017. The Tory whips will be very busy, as that's where her biggest headache will be. I suspect she may just get through the Brexit process but there is no way she will run in another election. But **** me, it's funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itdoesntmatterwhatthissay Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) 20 minutes ago, hippo said: Really ? - Ive heard many times last night and today - That JC earned respect for running an upbeat campaign and not getting into personal slanging matches. One of the verdicts from the tory campaign seems to be they did to much labour bashing I live near a few safe seats and always talk to the guys handing out leaflets or campaigning. You never know who you're going to meet or how insightful people are! I had three different groups at the end of my road handing out 'Stop the Tories' flyers. Non-Labour campaigners (especially on TV) were going for 'stop the Tories'; heck even the 'Save our NHS' focused on Tories out and not what all parties got/get wrong....let's remember much of the NHS mess began under Blair/Brown. Then there's sites like this - http://therealsimonkirbymp.uk/ For the record and it's relevant to my previous post, I don't think Corbyn is the hate preacher that I'm used to with New Labour. If he can move Labour away from that position it will be fantastic for British politics and policy. Edited June 9, 2017 by itdoesntmatterwhatthissay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 1 hour ago, wazzap24 said: I'll just ignore the first bit, no real need for it. Debate the issue, not my education (or lack of it). Parties do change and yes you could make an argument for Labour trying to 'powergrab' under Blair. They deliberately shifted to the centre to try and get in, no doubt. I don't think you can say with any credibility that the more recent pull back to the left was a powergrab, given what everybody thought would happen? The key difference here is, the Tories have run on an 'anti-Labour' campaign. Again, I don't really think you can argue that can you? The main focus has been 'you cannot vote for Corbyn because....blah blah', I think that's fair isn't it? So, if we are faced with another GE in the next 12 months, how can they credibly embrace any element of Corbyn/Labour's positions, when it goes against very heart of their policies and ideology? They would rightly get called out for it by any half decent, unbiased journalist and the new leader would spend most of the campaign trying to justify the u-turns? I just don't see how they could suddenly become the not-so-Tory, Tory party and get people to believe it? Over time, with a complete change in personnel, possibly, but within a mattter of months? Really? Maybe I'm wrong, maybe a new face and some different soundbites and they will. So if they run a campaign not based on anti-labour, pretty much as Labour did this time with focusing on their policies rather than being anti-tory I dont see that as being any kind of land grab but more that they realise where they went wrong. I couldnt really tell you 5 policies the tories put forward during the election which soimes up exactly why this result turned out as it has. I agree that if an election was called tomorrow they wouldnt be able to change their policies that much without looking idiotic, but 5 years is a long time and the public have short memories, change the leader and have a new message.........not that unthinkable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mjmooney Posted June 9, 2017 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted June 9, 2017 2 hours ago, Chindie said: I wonder how much of the DUP's nuttier stuff will filter through... Just saw somebody on FB summarise the DUP manifesto as "basically, the Bible, with fortnightly bin collections". 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 6 minutes ago, Davkaus said: They might see out the whole 5 years. I mean, the DUP are disgusting, loathsome individuals who actively work against the basic human rights of their citizens, think abortions shouldn't be legal, and hate gays. And they're teamed up with Theresa May. I don't see any incompatibilities at all. I had to smirk at the mirror going with the DUP terrorist angle in light of the leader they back and his terrorist sympathies in Ireland ... I suspect the irony was lost on the author of the article though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: I had to smirk at the mirror going with the DUP terrorist angle in light of the leader they back and his terrorist sympathies in Ireland ... I suspect the irony was lost on the author of the article though I think the point is that there are no terrorist sympathies on either side, but if you're going to sh*t stir then expect a taste of your own medicine. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 4 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: I had to smirk at the mirror going with the DUP terrorist angle in light of the leader they back and his terrorist sympathies in Ireland ... I suspect the irony was lost on the author of the article though It's amusing how you seem to be enjoying the irony in that way, but not in the other direction. May warns us of a coalition of chaos, with terrorist sympathisers, then jumps in to bed with the DUP. I expect more from the Prime Minister than a tabloid, to be honest. Even ignoring the terrorist sympathiser angle, they're anti-woman, gay haters, and Theresa May is having them prop up her government. Conservatives ought to be thoroughly ashamed of what their leader is willing to do to cling on to power. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, Davkaus said: It's amusing how you seem to be enjoying the irony in that way, but not in the other direction. May warns us of a coalition of chaos, with terrorist sympathisers, then jumps in to bed with the DUP. I expect more from the Prime Minister than a tabloid, to be honest. Even ignoring the terrorist sympathiser angle, they're anti-woman, gay haters, and Theresa May is having them prop up her government. Conservatives ought to be thoroughly ashamed of what their leader is willing to do to cling on to power. Can I ask what is the solution then? A tory minority? Or a even smaller labour one? Or shall we throw in a SNP labour coalition that combined is still smaller than tories alone (and they would probably only last a year until they kill each other)? Please tell me you would not suggest another election? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted June 9, 2017 Moderator Share Posted June 9, 2017 1 minute ago, Davkaus said: It's amusing how you seem to be enjoying the irony in that way, but not in the other direction. May warns us of a coalition of chaos, with terrorist sympathisers, then jumps in to bed with the DUP. I expect more from the Prime Minister than a tabloid, to be honest. Even ignoring the terrorist sympathiser angle, they're anti-woman, gay haters, and Theresa May is having them prop up her government. Conservatives ought to be thoroughly ashamed of what their leader is willing to do to cling on to power. Although on a more literal note, they couldn't possibly be getting into bed with a more conservative lot. Traditional religious values like homophobia, anti-choice, misogyny, bigotry, anti-science and with; as you say; a very strong and unashamed link to the UVF. Coalition of chaos? I think so... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 14 minutes ago, mykeyb said: So if they run a campaign not based on anti-labour, pretty much as Labour did this time with focusing on their policies rather than being anti-tory I dont see that as being any kind of land grab but more that they realise where they went wrong. I couldnt really tell you 5 policies the tories put forward during the election which soimes up exactly why this result turned out as it has. I agree that if an election was called tomorrow they wouldnt be able to change their policies that much without looking idiotic, but 5 years is a long time and the public have short memories, change the leader and have a new message.........not that unthinkable. Ahh right, slight cross purposes then, as I don't see how they can last the term in a collation this time. Yes over 5 years, I totally agree, they could completely 're-brand', but I think this current situation leads to another GE within 12 months and that's where I'm coming from on it. They could still claw back a majority with a new leader, same policies, but a better campaign. Big gamble though isn't it, given they don't seem to be awash with credible candidates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted June 9, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted June 9, 2017 May is beaten. She's just too power mad to accept it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Can I ask what is the solution then? A tory minority? Or a even smaller labour one? Or shall we throw in a SNP labour coalition that combined is still smaller than tories alone (and they would probably only last a year until they kill each other)? Please tell me you would not suggest another election? A conservative minority government would earn more respect than a conservative government that's welcomed in a party that's racist, homophobic, and who consistently works against women's rights. Senior members of the party even back an abortion ban for rape victims, for ****'s sake. Their views are utterly abhorrent, and Theresa May is willing to look the other way. Edited June 9, 2017 by Davkaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted June 9, 2017 Moderator Share Posted June 9, 2017 19 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: I had to smirk at the mirror going with the DUP terrorist angle in light of the leader they back and his terrorist sympathies in Ireland ... I suspect the irony was lost on the author of the article though I don't mean this unkindly, genuinely, but I think the Mirror writer was using irony, and you've missed it, Tony. Kind of "Here we are, we've had all this stuff about JC and the IRA and Hamas and hezbollah and terrorst sympathiser must be kept out of number 10, and isn't it ironic that we've now got T.May in bed with the friends of the UVF". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 19 minutes ago, itdoesntmatterwhatthissay said: I live near a few safe seats and always talk to the guys handing out leaflets or campaigning. You never know who you're going to meet or how insightful people are! I had three different groups at the end of my road handing out 'Stop the Tories' flyers. Non-Labour campaigners (especially on TV) were going for 'stop the Tories'; heck even the 'Save our NHS' focused on Tories out and not what all parties got/get wrong....let's remember much of the NHS mess began under Blair/Brown. Then there's sites like this - http://therealsimonkirbymp.uk/ For the record and it's relevant to my previous post, I don't think Corbyn is the hate preacher that I'm used to with New Labour. If he can move Labour away from that position it will be fantastic for British politics and policy. Really ? In 2010 an independent report was produced the UK NHS was the most efficient in the world. I work in the NHS. It got really messy in 2010 - when everyone was getting redundancy payments, and then applying for then own jobs, - covering for the many decent staff that just upped and left. We had that totally unnecessary re organisation - which created massive bureaucracy for absolutely zero end product. If you don't labour fair enough. But youre backing a looser if you think they aren't the architects of the current mess in the NHS. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 49 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: Tory Labour 1987 - 42.2% 30.8% 1992 - 41.9% 34.4% 1997 - 30.7% 43.2% 2001 - 31.7% 40.7% 2005 - 32.4% 35.2% 2010 - 36.1% 29% 2015 - 36.9% 30.4% 2017 - 48 % ? 40% ? you could argue that UKIP has played a part in some of that erosion and clearly you can also see some fluctuations based on Leadership ..i.e Blairs first term v Brown The Tory vote & has increased every year since 1997 , so all in all I'm not sure you can describe it as a Trend Link to data can be found here if anyone is interested It depends how you look at it. Looking at the graph from here, you can see it two ways. If you add the 2017 result and look at the trend from 1945 on, you will see a broadly flat trend. If you think that in both 1945 and 2017 there were some specific and unusual circumstances that mean they should be looked at differently, you see a different trend. Looking at the broad trend from 1950 to 2015 is what I'm thinking about. Over that period, we have seen a gradual move away from tribal party loyalty, expressing itself in both support for other parties and an increasing indifference to voting at all. This election has seen a classic two-party squeeze, and the question is whether it represents a shift back to the two-party system or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 take your cold dead hands off the country Theresa, you abomination of a woman. Have a bit of self respect and jump before you're pushed, and stop clinging on to power to the detriment of absolutely everyone else. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, Davkaus said: A conservative minority government would earn more respect than a conservative government that's welcomed in a party that's racist, homophobic, and who consistently works against women's rights. Senior members of the party even back an abortion ban for rape victims, for ****'s sake. Their views are utterly abhorrent, and Theresa May is willing to look the other way. I must admit I dont know too much about the DUP but that doesn't sound too good if thats the case. They sound more right wing than the tories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Just now, Chindie said: May is beaten. She's just too power mad to accept it. as per earlier .. I think she knows it , listen to her speech last night it was clearly " the party " and not " Me" but her first order of the day I guess is to get a government in place ... I'd imagine when "we" were calling for Brown to go after 2010 there were many defending him (probably some of the same people now saying May has to go !!) saying he had a right to try and put a government in place ? I'd be amazed if she stays in place for long .... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 1 minute ago, tonyh29 said: as per earlier .. I think she knows it , listen to her speech last night it was clearly " the party " and not " Me" but her first order of the day I guess is to get a government in place ... I'd imagine when "we" were calling for Brown to go after 2010 there were many defending him (probably some of the same people now saying May has to go !!) saying he had a right to try and put a government in place ? I'd be amazed if she stays in place for long .... Just reading around that the powers that be in the tory party want Brexit so bad. That they might just keep her in place to do there dirty work. As she has made a unwholy mess of the election she might feel duty bound to do that. Watch for staying in the single market to surface - that will kick it off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 2 hours ago, DK82 said: Any reason why you choose to use a black female in power who got a few sums wrong, rather than some of the white male conservatives or even May who wasn't aware of our funding for North Korea? You seriously suggesting their was racist intent in that post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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