Russia and its “Special Operation” in Ukraine

[sidcow]

43 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Great stuff finally imposing sanctions/bans on Roman Abramovich and Chelsea.

In following suit, along with everyone showing what brilliant humans they are, I'm assuming we'll now be pushing for sanctions and bans against the following, to further highlight our awakening to the atrocities of this world: ( Present and retro actively of course )

Newcastle | Saudis ( Yemen etc -  bombed regularly - starving to death )

Manchester City | Abu Dhabi etc ( See above )

Wolves | Chinese - Rohingya Muslim genocide etc.

Arsenal | Liverpool | Palace | Burnley | Manchester United | - Americans ( Self explanatory using any search engine )

Aston Villa | Americans/Egypt - Oh alot of history there.

Any club with Israeli involvement as well. ( Also self explanatory )

To quote some of the news reports i've seen though " These are civilised Europeans here, they drive cars like me and you, I've seen kids with blonde hair and blue eyes evacuating, it is heart breaking " ( Actual quotes FYI )

Feel free to get VERY upset if you want to. I don't care. lol

Facts don't give a f*ck about your feelings.

The world is absolutely bizarre.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Adman]

4 hours ago, magnkarl said:

'Maybe hit the wrong target'

Aleppo:

Grozny:

Russia's tactic IS to hit 'the wrong target'.

Exactly. Kill or displace the locals, replace over time with russians

[sparrow1988]

48 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Great stuff finally imposing sanctions/bans on Roman Abramovich and Chelsea.

In following suit, along with everyone showing what brilliant humans they are, I'm assuming we'll now be pushing for sanctions and bans against the following, to further highlight our awakening to the atrocities of this world: ( Present and retro actively of course )

1. Newcastle | Saudis ( Yemen etc -  bombed regularly - starving to death )

2. Manchester City | Abu Dhabi etc ( See above )

3. Wolves | Chinese - Rohingya Muslim genocide etc.

4. Arsenal | Liverpool | Palace | Burnley | Manchester United | - Americans ( Self explanatory using any search engine )

5. Aston Villa | Americans/Egypt - Oh alot of history there.

6. Any club with Israeli involvement as well. ( Also self explanatory )

To quote some of the news reports i've seen though " These are civilised Europeans here, they drive cars like me and you, I've seen kids with blonde hair and blue eyes evacuating, it is heart breaking " ( Actual quotes FYI )

Feel free to get VERY upset if you want to. I don't care. lol

Facts don't give a f*ck about your feelings.

The world is absolutely bizarre.

 

 

I'll have a go. I've added numbers to your post just to save typing

1 & 2 - absolutely. They should never have been let in to the game or at the very least once people became aware of what Abu Dhabi actually do, they should have been thrown out.

3 - haven't a clue if the owner has anything to do with the Chinese government or has links to Xi, similar to Abramovich with Putin. If he does grand, throw the book at him too.

4 & 5 - you taking the piss or possibly drugs? Individuals who have accrued their wealth through the "wonderful" system of global capitalism. I'm all for a bit of seizing the means of production and all that but even I think that it's a bit much to include those people here.

6. See 4 & 5, unless the people are directly involved with the oppression of Palestinians.

 

I agree with you on the quotes from the news reports. Some of the reporting has been crazily racist with regards to the "civilised country" and "just like me and you" comments.

Your last line - absolutely correct.

[Adman]

So what does the world do when Putin attacks Kyiv with chemical or biological weapons.  The pretext has been laid, so surely just a matter of time now?

[Xann]

24 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

A design that first went into service 68 years ago. Astonishing, when you think about it. 

The Russians have a catamaran that was in the Imperial Navy.

It picks up broken submarines. I guess they kept it busy enough to keep for 110 years?

[Talldarkandransome]

Are Chelsea in champions league? I don't follow it so don't know

Will there be points deductions

I wonder what is classed as Football Related Duties

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

1 hour ago, Jareth said:

I don't think any of that can be ignored, by anyone. On Abramovich it is undoubtedly good news. Both things are true at the same time. It looks like the criteria for action is measured along the lines of, is the aggressor directly threatening the existence of the UK? - That's the only explainer I can think of.  

Look, what's funny is that, people will instantly see my posts and file under " Why is he being defensive of Russians ".

That's not even the case. I have no dog in that fight whatsoever.

It's just that gross hypocrisy, double standards, selective " outrage "  and rootless bandwagonism make me squirm, like properly cringe.

I'm not the " race bait " or " freedom fighter " just because type either. Alot of my views on other things like race relations, baiting, Israel/ Palestine , religion etc are publicly expressed on here, over the course of my VT membership.

With regards to Chelsea Football club itself, I see this as nothing but posturing for public consumption. If the club has already been relinquished, why should the fans and employees suffer? Isn't Chelsea an English football club?

I'm actually not FOR letting any of the clubs necessarily suffer for the sins of their ruling government regimes by the way, as shady and corrupt as alot of them are. ( Obviously there are exceptions to this )

In the grand scheme of things, this opens the door for governments to just confiscate peoples belongings, under whichever legislation or draft it may fall under, wrongly or rightly, with impunity.

The poster who mentioned " Western Businessmen " as if they are an all elite, all above board contingent without question, pretty much sums up a large portion of the gripe for me.

I find this meme fitting:

The opinions I share which some people find " bizarre " are the opinions of a growing segment of the population. Possibly mostly stay quiet in certain " rooms "  because they know what they'll get.

I genuinely think having lived and grown up on all sides ( West | Middle East | East ) helps give people a broader scope of vision and opinion. Rather than a heavily biased tunnel lens.

That quote " People who believe politicians, probably think the stripper at the bar really likes them as well " springs to mind. lol

Alot of biting off noses to spite faces going on since the inception of this conflict - in multiple aspects. IMO

 

 

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[sparrow1988]

2 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

" People who believe politicians, probably think the stripper at the bar really likes them as well "

She's the love of my life.

[Talldarkandransome]

4 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Look, what's funny is that, people will instantly see my posts and file under " Why is he being defensive of Russians ".

That's not even the case. I have no dog in that fight whatsoever.

It's just that gross hypocrisy, double standards, selective " outrage "  and bandwagonism make me squirm, like properly cringe.

I'm not the " race bait " or " freedom fighter " just because type either. Alot of my views on other things like race relations, baiting, Israel/ Palestine , religion etc are publicly expressed on here, over the course of my VT membership.

With regards to Chelsea Football club itself, I see this as nothing but posturing for public consumption. If the club has already been relinquished, why should the fans and employees suffer? Isn't Chelsea an English football club?

I'm actually not FOR letting any of the clubs necessarily suffer for the sins of their ruling government regimes by the way, as shady and corrupt as alot of them are. ( Obviously there are exceptions to this )

In the grand scheme of things, this opens the door for governments to just confiscate peoples belongings, under whichever legislation or draft it may fall under, wrongly or rightly, with impunity.

The poster who mentioned " Western Businessmen " as if they are an all elite, all above board contingent without question, pretty much sums up a large portion of the gripe for me.

The opinions I share which some people find " bizarre " are the opinions of a growing segment of the population. Possibly mostly stay quiet in certain " rooms "  because they know what they'll get.

I genuinely think having lived and grown up on all sides ( West | Middle East | East ) helps give people a broader scope of vision and opinion. Rather than a heavily biased tunnel lens.

That quote " People who believe politicians, probably think the stripper at the bar really likes them as well " springs to mind. lol

Alot of biting off noses to spite faces going on since the inception of this conflict - in multiple aspects. IMO

You are not alone in these thoughts at all, far from it. I think most folks are just using Russia as the current example due to them blowing the shit out of Ukraine for no apparent reason.

[Seat68]

3 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Look, what's funny is that, people will instantly see my posts and file under " Why is he being defensive of Russians ".

That's not even the case. I have no dog in that fight whatsoever.

It's just that gross hypocrisy, double standards, selective " outrage "  and bandwagonism make me squirm, like properly cringe.

I'm not the " race bait " or " freedom fighter " just because type either. Alot of my views on other things like race relations, baiting, Israel/ Palestine , religion etc are publicly expressed on here, over the course of my VT membership.

With regards to Chelsea Football club itself, I see this as nothing but posturing for public consumption. If the club has already been relinquished, why should the fans and employees suffer? Isn't Chelsea an English football club?

I'm actually not FOR letting any of the clubs necessarily suffer for the sins of their ruling government regimes by the way, as shady and corrupt as alot of them are. ( Obviously there are exceptions to this )

In the grand scheme of things, this opens the door for governments to just confiscate peoples belongings, under whichever legislation or draft it may fall under, wrongly or rightly, with impunity.

The poster who mentioned " Western Businessmen " as if they are an all elite, all above board contingent without question, pretty much sums up a large portion of the gripe for me.

The opinions I share which some people find " bizarre " are the opinions of a growing segment of the population. Possibly mostly stay quiet in certain " rooms "  because they know what they'll get.

I genuinely think having lived and grown up on all sides ( West | Middle East | East ) helps give people a broader scope of vision and opinion. Rather than a heavily biased tunnel lens.

That quote " People who believe politicians, probably think the stripper at the bar really likes them as well " springs to mind. lol

Alot of biting off noses to spite faces going on since the inception of this conflict - in multiple aspects. IMO

It's really not the gotcha you feel your original post is. Newcastle, Man City and Chelsea ownership have been talked about in length in other football. This thread is on Russia, it's not about broader football ownership, it's Russia and at the moment they have invaded a foreign nation so that's the main focus of conversation. If you feel strongly about who owns clubs, or indeed feel strongly that a Russian oligarch that has financed Putin has been singled out unfairly, then that's fine. Go for it, but today perhaps the conversation isn't about Newcastle or Wolves. 

[sidcow]

16 minutes ago, sparrow1988 said:

She's the love of my life.

I paid to see her first. 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

21 minutes ago, Seat68 said:

It's really not the gotcha you feel your original post is. Newcastle, Man City and Chelsea ownership have been talked about in length in other football. This thread is on Russia, it's not about broader football ownership, it's Russia and at the moment they have invaded a foreign nation so that's the main focus of conversation. If you feel strongly about who owns clubs, or indeed feel strongly that a Russian oligarch that has financed Putin has been singled out unfairly, then that's fine. Go for it, but today perhaps the conversation isn't about Newcastle or Wolves. 

Believe me, i'm under no impression whatsoever that my post has any sort of " gotcha " factor to it, because you can't " get " anybody if their minds are already skewed in one direction.

The relevance comes from the fact that, some people seem to be under the illusion that most top tier businessmen ( Football Club owners usually fall under this category ), are not tied into governments, fund parties, politicians, wars etc. whether that be directly or indirectly

If they are not under this illusion, then it comes back round to the point of selective virtue.

With regards to the rest of the post, yes, I know, certain things are only arguable when it's " convenient " . " The thread is about Russia " and a particular Oligarch who owns/owned a football club, but I can't bring up any other frame of reference, in relation to the particular football club, unless i go into the Club ownership thread. Cool.

This is like asking me to create a thread for Iraq, for example, every time I want to bring it up as reference to this current conflict.

This reads more like, if you're not saying what we'd like to hear, we'd prefer you take it elsewhere thanks.

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[NurembergVillan]

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

1 hour ago, sparrow1988 said:

I'll have a go. I've added numbers to your post just to save typing

1 & 2 - absolutely. They should never have been let in to the game or at the very least once people became aware of what Abu Dhabi actually do, they should have been thrown out.

3 - haven't a clue if the owner has anything to do with the Chinese government or has links to Xi, similar to Abramovich with Putin. If he does grand, throw the book at him too.

4 & 5 - you taking the piss or possibly drugs? Individuals who have accrued their wealth through the "wonderful" system of global capitalism. I'm all for a bit of seizing the means of production and all that but even I think that it's a bit much to include those people here.

6. See 4 & 5, unless the people are directly involved with the oppression of Palestinians.

 

I agree with you on the quotes from the news reports. Some of the reporting has been crazily racist with regards to the "civilised country" and "just like me and you" comments.

Your last line - absolutely correct.

So because Abramovich has or had deep ties to Putin, we know for a fact, that he is ok with invading Ukraine right?

Has anyone spoken to him personally? Hasn't he said they will donate proceeds to the victims of the Ukraine war? ( Whether Russian victims get some of that shouldn't matter either )

Hence, the club he has relinquished back to it's English base, should be punished right, even after being relinquished?

Essentially punishing the English fans and employees of the club, makes alot of sense.

Do you lot not realise your own methods of semantics? lol

Edited March 10, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[Seat68]

13 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Believe me, i'm under no impression whatsoever that my post has any sort of " gotcha " factor to it, because you can't " get " anybody if their minds are already skewed in one direction.

The relevance comes from the fact that, some people seem to be under the illusion that most top tier businessmen ( Football Club owners usually fall under this category ), are not tied into governments, fund parties, politicians, wars etc. whether that be directly or indirectly

If they are not under this illusion, then it comes back round to the point of selective virtue.

With regards to the rest of the post, yes, I know, certain things are only arguable when it's " convenient " . " The thread is about Russia " and a particular Oligarch who owns/owned a football club, but I can't bring up any other frame of reference, in relation to the particular football club, unless i go into the Club ownership thread. Cool.

This is like asking me to create a thread for Iraq, for example, every time I want to bring it up as reference to this current conflict.

This reads more like, if you're not saying what we'd like to hear, we'd prefer you take it elsewhere thanks.

 

If Iraq has relevance to this conflict, then it has a place in this thread, if not, then post it in the Iraq/Middle East thread. 

[Sam-AVFC]

@JAMAICAN-VILLAN at any point have you come into this thread and made a critical post based on what people have actually said?

It seems like you just see something on Facebook, think x should be getting criticised too and jump in here to scream how everyone happens to be ignoring it. With issues you largely didn't give a shit about raising awareness on before Ukraine. In a thread that has nothing to do with them.

[LondonLax]

1 hour ago, Adman said:

So what does the world do when Putin attacks Kyiv with chemical or biological weapons.  The pretext has been laid, so surely just a matter of time now?

We do nothing because Russia has nukes so can do what they like. 

[avfc1982am]

11 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

So because Abramovich has or had deep ties to Putin, we know for a fact, that he is ok with invading Ukraine right?

Has anyone spoken to him personally? Hasn't he said they will donate proceeds to the victims of the Ukraine war? ( Whether Russian victims get some of that shouldn't matter either )

Hence, the club he has relinquished back to it's English base, should be punished right, even after being relinquished?

Essentially punishing the English fans and employees of the club, makes alot of sense.

Do you lot not realise your own methods of semantics? lol

Sorry but I really take exception to this sort of crap! You are certainly not the only person in this forum with contrasting views on right and wrong, good and bad and what the F*** Governments around the world are playing at more often than not. Obviously their own interests and not those of the population in many instances. Nobody is arguing that. 

You've spent the last few days coming into this thread groaning about injustices that have nothing to do with the Ukraine directly. And are now arguing about an injustice that could directly effect, for the good may I add, the current conflict going on out there. Not only that but then you come on here posting as if your the only one that sees the wood through the trees around the world. 

Personally I've lived in South Asia for 18 months in 3 Countries, have travelled extensively, not just Asia. I have a mix of Irish, English, Caribbean and Canadian in my family. Family that have taken part in military conflicts or have been caught up in them(Northern Ireland for instance). Family from different religious and cultural backgrounds. As have many posters on this forum I would gather. To see some of the stuff you are coming out with leaves me thinking you completely misread the room and those you point the finger at for ignorance. 

BTW - How is your friend that went back to Ukraine to find her mother? Is she and her family okay? I seriously hope so because I can assure you Abramovich's family are just fine. 

[Awol]

9 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

We do nothing because Russia has nukes so can do what they like. 

That’s the logical answer, but the passions of the people are not governed by logic and have political effect. A chemical attack on Kyiv would make it much harder for western leaders to resist pressure for escalation, both from the public and the media war hawks - imo.

[sparrow1988]

15 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

So because Abramovich has or had deep ties to Putin, we know for a fact, that he is ok with invading Ukraine right?

Has anyone spoken to him personally? Hasn't he said they will donate proceeds to the victims of the Ukraine war? ( Whether Russian victims get some of that shouldn't matter either )

Hence, the club he has relinquished back to it's English base, should be punished right, even after being relinquished?

Essentially punishing the English fans and employees of the club, makes alot of sense.

Do you lot not realise your own methods of semantics? lol

He released a statement with more holes in it than a block of Swiss cheese a week or two back. That's what we have to go on at the moment. There were rumours of him heading to the Belarussian border to take part in negotiations - no sign of him in the photos that were released though. He has links to Putin. There are numerous accounts of his links. They are well documented. Here's an article and a couple of extracts from said article from 2002 with a profile of Abramovich - http://content.time.com/time/subscriber/article/0,33009,393604,00.html

He is "probably the most politically influential" of Russia's new tycoons, says Anatoli Chubais, former chief of staff to President Boris Yeltsin and now CEO of RAO UES, Russia's electricity monopoly.

Abramovich's big break came in 1992 when Boris Berezovsky, then the most powerful of the moguls, befriended the promising young man and brought him into the Yeltsin coterie. Nine years later, when Berezovsky fell out of favor with the new Putin regime, Abramovich took over his erstwhile patron's assets in the oil industry.

If you go searching, you will find more. There are also a lot of photos of him with Putin.

I am going to give the people imposing these sanctions the benefit of the doubt here. I assume that they have 'followed the money' so to speak. I'd imagine that money is leading to one place - the Kremlin (my opinion of course). If Abramovich was in no way active in Russian circles, I am pretty sure that he wouldn't be sanctioned.

And regarding relinquishing the club, he has said that he was "giving trustees of Chelsea's charitable foundation the stewardship and care" of the club. The terms stewardship and care have absolutely no meaning in the legal world. In other words, he has done nothing like relinquish the club. It's still his and that is why it is being seized.

It is sh1t that the fans, tea ladies, caterers and so on will be the ones to most suffer here. However, in the case of the fans at least they've been throwing around the best owner in the world tag for a long time now. However, he has been mentioned numerous times when people have been talking about governance in football and safeguarding clubs. Many journalists have taken pelters for trying to raise awareness of the type of people who own/are invlolved with football clubs especially the likes of the Saudis, Abu Dhabi, Qatar, Abramovich. F**k me, this club nearly ceased to exist because of a charlatan of an owner. Having such an owner carries the inherent risk of it all blowing up in your face someday.