Gareth Southgate

[villa4europe]

5 minutes ago, Mantis said:

A lot of it is just down to plain ignorance I feel. Majority of the people watching England over the past month probably don't follow football that much so all they can see "he got us to our first final in 55 years". They don't really grasp any of the tactical stuff nor do they really appreciate the attacking talent in this England squad that was so shamefully wasted.

Of the 3 people I've seen have a pop at him on Facebook that has been the exact response "but he got us to the final" usually followed by "who else could do that" 

We lost to an Italian team that are everything we could be if we wanted to be 

[Genie]

9 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

I just don't agree that it's some giant humiliation at the end of the day. He did it again last night, Henderson on and off. After the semi, there were all these breathless 'this is only the third time this has happened - the others were X and Y' comments, and all I could think about was how I couldn't remember either of those instances. It's not something that anybody is going to care about in about 2 weeks from now, it just doesn't matter.

Even the embarrassment aside, why leave on tired legs and take off one of the best players in the country with fresh legs? The player famously difficult to get the ball off, wins free kicks and creates more chances per minute than anyone else? 
There’s a very good reason subs like that almost never get taken off again, because it’s stupid.

 

[rbcuk]

Just listened to some of his press conference just, he intends to lead us in the World Cup but doesn’t know after that

[magnkarl]

We've got a world beating generation sitting on the bench. When other teams dominated they played exiting, fun and not the least inclusive football. Remember Germany dismantling everyone in Brazil? They had 3 forwards who constantly interchanged. They had goals from pretty much all of their team, they attacked and knew they had the edge up top. We've got the edge up top but Gareth rather selects 4 right backs and 2 defensive midfielders. Why doesn't the media see the potential? Foden, Rashford, Grealish and Sancho would all be capable of defeating Italy with pace and smartness, yet Gary resorts to half injured knackered players like Henderson and Sterling. The game management of Kane in particular has been atrocious. He won't get into form if you play him 120 minutes 3 games in a row, he'll be dead.

[BG_Villa_Fan]

5 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

I just don't agree that it's some giant humiliation at the end of the day. He did it again last night, Henderson on and off. After the semi, there were all these breathless 'this is only the third time this has happened - the others were X and Y' comments, and all I could think about was how I couldn't remember either of those instances. It's not something that anybody is going to care about in about 2 weeks from now, it just doesn't matter.

It won't be remembered and it won't matter to most people, including Jack himself ( probably ), but it's a symptom, one of many. Throughout the tournament Southgate didn't know his best 11, or his best 14, or his best formation. His tactical approach has been incredibly one dimensional, lacking in imagination and playing down to the opposition level, instead of taking the games by the horns and using the incredible talent he's had at his disposal. This England team was the best in terms of ability and talent in the tournament, honestly it wasn't even close. I watched the Brazil and Argentina final as well - they're both significantly worse than this English team is, or could be more like. They're being dragged down by a manager who's incapable of developing them and turning them into the force they could be. 

I'm not english, so I don't really care about that team, apart from when Villa players are participating, but I really believe they can win multiple major trophies with the players they have. Southgate has done well to get them to the final, but playing the way they do is not how you should approach the game when you have the talent disparity in your favour. It's like Bruce taking Villa to the final against Filham and approaching the game in a similar fashion. Sure he's done well to get there, but you could be much more developed with someone who can take advantage of the immense talent at hand. You can play defensively and limp to 1-0 wins against significantly weaker opponents, you can call it results business and so on, but you're not even trying to reach that next level everyone knows you're capable of. Again - not even trying - this is such a waste. 

[villalad21]

You can tolerate a horrendous style of play if you are winning trophies but if you don't it's just tedious to watch and a waste of a generation.

[markavfc40]

You look at the headline of making a World Cup semi final and Euro final and it looks like Southgate is doing a great job. Scratch just a little beneath the surface though and you'll see that over both of those tournaments the highest ranked side we beat was Denmark. We have had very fortunate runs but each time we have come up against a side more our equal in terms of ability Southgate has been found wanting and to be out of his depth.  Does anyone genuinely think had we have had Italy's run to the final we'd have got any further than the quarters.

Southgate is a nice guy and a credit to England in terms of the way he conducts himself. He is though a defensive minded manager at a time when we have an unbelievable array of attacking talent that he doesn't have a clue how to get the best out of. For me given who we have played he has got the bare minimum out of this squad but I would get rid of him now as he is unlikely to continue to be as fortunate in drawing the teams we have and will again be found wanting when we come up against good sides.

[Mantis]

47 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

Of the 3 people I've seen have a pop at him on Facebook that has been the exact response "but he got us to the final" usually followed by "who else could do that" 

We lost to an Italian team that are everything we could be if we wanted to be 

Not surprising. A lot of people who don't normally watch football suddenly become armchair experts at tournament time and it really shows.

[Vive_La_Villa]

Let a 19 year old kid take the crucial penalty. Wow

[sparrow1988]

2 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Let a 19 year old kid take the crucial penalty. Wow

Call me crazy but I think that Pickford should be in the first 5 takers.

[magnkarl]

2 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Let a 19 year old kid take the crucial penalty. Wow

A 19 year old who's about number 8 in the queue for taking pens at his club. It's mind boggling when you've got club captains who are 5-10 years older able to take good pens just standing around. Gareth effed that up. It's almost like he switched off as soon as he realised pens were coming up.

[Genie]

 

[blandy]

59 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

You look at the headline of making a World Cup semi final and Euro final and it looks like Southgate is doing a great job. Scratch just a little beneath the surface though and you'll see that over both of those tournaments the highest ranked side we beat was Denmark. We have had very fortunate runs but each time we have come up against a side more our equal in terms of ability Southgate has been found wanting and to be out of his depth.  Does anyone genuinely think had we have had Italy's run to the final we'd have got any further than the quarters.

Southgate is a nice guy and a credit to England in terms of the way he conducts himself. He is though a defensive minded manager at a time when we have an unbelievable array of attacking talent that he doesn't have a clue how to get the best out of. For me given who we have played he has got the bare minimum out of this squad but I would get rid of him now as he is unlikely to continue to be as fortunate in drawing the teams we have and will again be found wanting when we come up against good sides.

I think with this, the situation as I see it is that he got an enormous amount of stuff right. Even in this last game. The way the side started and was set up at the start - it had Italy and Mancini baffled, and England for 35 minutes were well on top and in front And that's despite what pretty much all of us think/thought about the line up we had being too defensively biased.

After half time, Italy had worked out how to play against us, and they also made changes, but we didn't. It was absolutely crying out for England to set a new problem, to stop sitting so deep and to pose more of a threat to Italy to change the course of the game. But he kind of stuck to what had worked against Denmark, where they were more tired than us. This time though, with their extra day's rest Italy were less tired and had, anyway, changed players using substitutes.

So I think the reservations everyone (almost) had about the defensive nature of the sides selected kind of game to the fore. We can't know the sliding doors thing - he could have picked a different side and got a worse result, no one will ever know. But we can pretty much see that in this game what he did, didn't quite work.

So the question I ask myself is will he learn from that? Will he change and adapt his approach having seen the current one fall short, just, or will he double down on it. If the answer is "he'll tweak it and be a bit more positive, a bit more prepared to trust in the qualities of the attacking and creative players, rather than worrying about what they don't do", then I wouldn't get rid of him. I hope that is what he does (they're not going to sack him).  In essence it looks like there's not an awful lot wrong with the squad, the players, the manager, all the rest of the stuff, apart from a need for the manager to be a little more adventurous, a little more proactive around the attacking aspects and attacking/creative players Mancini gambled and won (just) Southgate didn't gamble and lost (just). It's fine margins, but teams work out how to play against sides and constant evolution is necessary. The potential is still there because of the players we have and all the rest of it. I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[Zatman]

23 minutes ago, Genie said:

 

Might be Jacks last cap for a while. Southgate wont like his opinionated tweets

[HanoiVillan]

2 minutes ago, blandy said:

I think with this, the situation as I see it is that he got an enormous amount of stuff right. Even in this last game. The way the side started and was set up at the start - it had Italy and Mancini baffled, and England for 35 minutes were well on top and in front And that's despite what pretty much all of think/thought about the line up we had being too defensively biased.

After half time, Italy had worked out how to play against us, and they also made changes, but we didn't. It was absolutely crying out for England to set a new problem, to stop sitting so deep and to pose more of a threat to Italy to change the course of the game. But he kind of stuck to what had worked against Denmark, where they were more tired than us. This time though, with their extra day's rest Italy were less tired and had, anyway, changed players using substitutes.

So I think the reservations everyone (almost) had about the defensive nature of the sides selected kind of game to the fore. We can't know the sliding doors thing - he could have picked a different side and got a worse result, no one will ever know. But we can pretty much see that in this game what he did, didn't quite work.

So the question I ask myself is will he learn from that? Will he change and adapt his approach having seen the current one fall short, just, or will he double down on it. IF the answer is he'll tweak it and be a bit more positive, a bit more prepared to trust in the qualities of the attacking and creative players, rather than worrying about what they don't do, then I wouldn't get rid of him. I hope that is what he does (they're not going to sack him).  In essence it looks like there's not an awful lot wrong with the squad, the players, the manager, all the rest of the stuff, apart from a need for the manager to be a little more adventurous, a little more proactive around the attacking aspects and attacking/creative players Mancini gambled and won (just) Southgate didn't gamble and lost (just). It's fine margins, but teams work out how to play against sides and constant evolution is necessary. The potential is still there because of the players we have and all the rest of it. I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Really good summary IMO.

At the end of the day, though there's no question Italy were much the better team on the night, we defended pretty well and the scores were level after 120 minutes. Penalties *could* have gone the other way. It would just be better if next time we can win these games before that point. As you say, it's fine margins.

[Phil Silvers]

4 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Might be Jacks last cap for a while. Southgate wont like his opinionated tweets

Good, Southgate to stop messing him about or shove it where the sun don't shine.

[Genie]

1 minute ago, Phil Silvers said:

Good, Southgate to stop messing him about or shove it where the sun don't shine.

Everybody: England need to build around Grealish

Southgate: How can I use him as little as possible without getting hammered by the media?

[Mister_a]

Unfortunately, the list of things he needed to do to win that final was utterly beyond him.

• Stop playing favourites all the time / drop Mason bloody mount
• Tell Kane that if he drops into midfield he will get subbed for a striker that stays in position (assuming he's bought more than 1 to the tournament......).
• Explicitly tell Sterling that if he runs aimlessly into players more than twice when there is a better pass on he's coming off, even if it's in the 2nd minute.
• Pick and play the players that are in form, regardless of 'big game' experience (Ollie, Jack etc).

 

[Phil Silvers]

2 minutes ago, Genie said:

Everybody: England need to build around Grealish

Southgate: How can I use him as little as possible without getting hammered by the media?

Bang on Genie.

No likes here, I owe you 2 now

[villa4europe]

6 minutes ago, Genie said:

Everybody: England need to build around Grealish

Southgate: How can I use him as little as possible without getting hammered by the media?

Convinced the media he was a perfect super sub

Didn't use him as a super sub in the final