Steve Bruce

[markavfc40]

I can't be having this rocking up to Villa Park tomorrow night hoping we lose. The managerial situation will take care of itself and will be based on way more than one result. If asked the question now do I want him sacked then I would say yes but every day he remains in charge I hope he turns things around. To hope for anything else is counter productive as every dropped point now just gives whoever the manager is going forward a bigger hill to climb.

Edited September 11, 2017 by markavfc40

[alreadyexists]

6 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I can't be having this rocking up to Villa Park tomorrow night hoping we lose. The managerial situation will take care of itself and will be based on way more than one result. If asked the question now do I want him sacked then I would say yes but everyday he remains in charge I hope he turns things around. To hope for anything else is counter productive as every dropped point now just gives whoever the manager is going forward a bigger hill to climb.

Yep, you're right Mark. The best case scenario is Bruce gets it all together and we win the next 7-8 on the trot... that's the sort of form we'd need to get back on track. I still think some would not want him but he'd win the majority back round I think. I suppose the problem is that seems a long way off.

Worst case scenario really is we lose the next couple, Bruce goes, we get someone else in and we still lose the next 5-6. If that happens, what next?

[TRO]

3 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I can't be having this rocking up to Villa Park tomorrow night hoping we lose. The managerial situation will take care of itself and will be based on way more than one result. If asked the question now do I want him sacked then I would say yes but everyday he remains in charge I hope he turns things around. To hope for anything else is counter productive as every dropped point now just gives whoever the manager is going forward a bigger hill to climb.

A very well rounded opinion Mark as normal.

I must say mate.....Saturdays game injured me.

I honestly don't want us to lose and never have even in the dark days of HDE.......however i have doubts now that Steve can turn this in to something i was expecting to happen....I think we have found levels of performance i never thought we could.

but i can hope.

[VillaCas]

I'm conflicted. I never want Villa to lose but I'm absolutely convinced that Bruce will never take us up and so a win will prolong the period in which we will languish in the Championship. 

A typical Bruce performance with a clearance going in to the Boro goal off Traores arse in the 4th min of injury time will do it for me (although some will still see this a a sign off a turnaround)

[sheepyvillian]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

I must say, I can't succumb to that....but I understand why.

fans just want to be on the right road to gradual improvement

Loyalty has no conditions .

[TRO]

13 minutes ago, VillaCas said:

I'm conflicted. I never want Villa to lose but I'm absolutely convinced that Bruce will never take us up and so a win will prolong the period in which we will languish in the Championship. 

A typical Bruce performance with a clearance going in to the Boro goal off Traores arse in the 4th min of injury time will do it for me (although some will still see this a a sign off a turnaround)

but equally, we could lose and he still stays in the job...its not a foregone conclusion.

We simply have to win.

[markavfc40]

26 minutes ago, TRO said:

A very well rounded opinion Mark as normal.

I must say mate.....Saturdays game injured me.

Saturday was diabolical. I was away and missed the Norwich and Wigan games so Brentford was the first game I had been to since Hull. I expected us to look like a cohesive unit, be able to string passes together and dominate possession and create chances. I did witness all those things on Saturday but it was Brentford who provided it. A side put together on a shoe string and who had just sold their best players. 

Bruce has had 40 odd games in charge and we have made no progress. I don't doubt for a second that, along with Calderwood and Clemence,  he is working on things in training and that we aren't seeing it on a match day as you can sense he is as frustrated as any of us at what we are seeing but if he can't get the players to do what he is asking them then he is still culpable.

It could suddenly click I guess. Managers have turned things around from worse than where Bruce is now. I just don't see it though and I can bleat on and state the obvious that we have been poor for however long and that this, this and this is wrong but like I said before for every day he remains in charge the bottom line is I have to hope that he will turn it around.

Edited September 11, 2017 by markavfc40

[TRO]

3 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

Saturday was diabolical. I was away and missed the Norwich and Wigan games so Brentford was the first game I had been to since Hull. I expected us to look like a cohesive unit, be able to string passes together and dominate possession and create chances. I did witness all those things on Saturday but it was Brentford who provided it. A side put together on a shoe string and who had just sold their best players. 

Bruce has had 40 odd games in charge and we have made no progress. I don't doubt for a second that, along with Calderwood and Clemence,  he is working on things in training and that we aren't seeing it on a match day as you can sense he is as frustrated as any of us at what we are seeing but if he can't get the players to do what he is asking them then he is still culpable.

It could suddenly click I guess. Managers have turned things around from worse than where Bruce is now. I just don't see it though and I can bleat on and state the obvious that we have been poor for however long and that this, this and this is wrong but like I said before for every day he remains in charge the bottom line is I have to hope that he will turn things around.

ditto......Saturday changed my opinion sadly.....I too missed the Norwich and wigan games due to holiday......think we'll get banned as a jinx.

Edited September 11, 2017 by TRO

[villabromsgrove]

A win for Villa tomorrow will keep Bruce in a job.  

We've jointly discussed in this thread all the reasons why Bruce has to go. 

Bruce being sacked has now become more important than the three points in my opinion.

Tony Xia should have got rid of SB already, then it wouldn't be necessary for fans like me to have to hope for a loss in order to get the job done.

 

[srsmithusa]

12 minutes ago, villabromsgrove said:

A win for Villa tomorrow will keep Bruce in a job.  

We've jointly discussed in this thread all the reasons why Bruce has to go. 

Bruce being sacked has now become more important than the three points in my opinion.

Tony Xia should have got rid of SB already, then it wouldn't be necessary for fans like me to have to hope for a loss in order to get the job done.

 

your first sentence is an assumption and it colors everything after.   But I do agree he should be gone already.

[terrytini]

1 hour ago, markavfc40 said:

I can't be having this rocking up to Villa Park tomorrow night hoping we lose. The managerial situation will take care of itself and will be based on way more than one result. If asked the question now do I want him sacked then I would say yes but every day he remains in charge I hope he turns things around. To hope for anything else is counter productive as every dropped point now just gives whoever the manager is going forward a bigger hill to climb.

Each to their own.

We had the same debate and each said the same things before Norwich.

We Won, and now look where we are.

Win tomorrow and we add another couple of weeks, it's him surviving that is making it harder and harder.

What does one game matter if the longer term is better served by s defeat ?

[peterms]

58 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

Loyalty has no conditions .

I suggest that just about anyone who has ever successfully led or managed anyone would disagree.

The conditions are usually implicit, unspoken.  But people who place themselves in positions of leadership and don't understand that, don't last.

[villa89]

11 minutes ago, srsmithusa said:

your first sentence is an assumption and it colors everything after.   But I do agree he should be gone already.

It's not an assumption though. He's 100% not going to be sacked if we win. If that was the case he'd already have been sacked. 

The other point is also valid, Bruce leaving is more important than the 3 points. 

[terrytini]

3 minutes ago, villa89 said:

It's not an assumption though. He's 100% not going to be sacked if we win. If that was the case he'd already have been sacked. 

The other point is also valid, Bruce leaving is more important than the 3 points. 

I don't think you can say 100% but clearly if he Wins the sack is unlikely- or at least more unlikely.

Now hearing one or two " hoping he will turn it around ".......wow.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me over and over and over for 11 months the world must've gone mad !!!

Edited September 11, 2017 by terrytini
Added a wee proverb

[Genie]

Maybe Xia doesn't have anybody he considers better lined up?

[markavfc40]

2 minutes ago, terrytini said:

 

What does one game matter if the longer term is better served by s defeat ?

That assumes he would get the sack. It then assumes he would then be replaced by someone who would get better results which as we have shown in our last four or five appointments won't necessarily be the case. I'll take the 3 points leaving whoever the manager is come Saturday starting the game in a better position than we are now.

Like I have said Terry as things stand now I want him sacked. I see zero benefit in wanting us to lose though giving him or his successor and even bigger hill to climb. For what it is worth I don't think we will win tomorrow and I think he may well be sacked before Saturday. I'll be doing what I am there to do tomorrow night though and that is support the team in the hope it can help them to three points

[mykeyb]

The thing is in his 40 odd games his been in charge I don't think I have seen us play good football for a whole 90 minutes even against lower league opposition so I just cannot see him getting a level of performance which would get the results we need.

He needs to go quickly, I fear it may be too late already

[terrytini]

Just now, markavfc40 said:

That assumes he would get the sack. It then assumes he would then be replaced by someone who would get better results which as we have shown in our last four or five appointments won't necessarily be the case. I'll take the 3 points leaving whoever the manager is come Saturday starting the game in a better position than we are now.

Like I have said Terry as things stand now I want him sacked. I see zero benefit in wanting us to lose though giving him or his successor and even bigger hill to climb. For what it is worth I don't think we will win tomorrow and I think he may well be sacked before Saturday. I'll be doing what I am there to do tomorrow night though and that is support the team in the hope it can help them to three points

Yes I understood your view .... as I say it's the same debate as prior to Norwich and the Win we got there has prolonged his stay. 

Of course it depends on whether he WOULD get sacked, nobody can see the future.

Point is, the better his results the more LIKELY he is to stay - surely that's reasonable ?

Therefore IF you think we are best served with him gone the only logical position is to then want whatever increase the chance of him going to happen.

I don't see any other way of looking at it.

 

[markavfc40]

7 minutes ago, terrytini said:

Yes I understood your view .... as I say it's the same debate as prior to Norwich and the Win we got there has prolonged his stay. 

Of course it depends on whether he WOULD get sacked, nobody can see the future.

Point is, the better his results the more LIKELY he is to stay - surely that's reasonable ?

Therefore IF you think we are best served with him gone the only logical position is to then want whatever increase the chance of him going to happen.

I don't see any other way of looking at it.

 

Terry your opinion is fair enough and I understand where you are coming from but we are at polar opposites here mate as I just can't ever envisage going to a game hoping we lose.

Like you say none of us can foresee the future. It may take another 3 or 4 games without winning for him to get the flick. Do we go into all those games hoping we lose? He may win the next 3 or 4 giving him another period of grace before he would come under pressure. Who knows. I just see it that we hope for the three points whenever they are on offer and whatever consequences that has above and beyond those three points so be it.

[peterms]

17 minutes ago, villa89 said:

It's not an assumption though. He's 100% not going to be sacked if we win. If that was the case he'd already have been sacked. 

The other point is also valid, Bruce leaving is more important than the 3 points. 

Clubs often sack a manager immediately after a loss,  which leads to the whole discussion about "Is it worth losing a game to get rid of the manager".

I don't really understand it.  The only explanations that make sense are either looking for political cover for their decision because they are too feeble to do it unless fans are currently unhappy, or else acting in a fit of pique.

The idea that they are trying to run a multimillion pound business by judging the manager one game at a time is just too daft to contemplate.