Dave J Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 On 02/06/2017 at 16:17, GREAT_BEARD_OF_ZEUS said: I've avoided this thread for a while so I may be repeating a point already made, but... I just caught up on a load of those player vids which the club seem to be churning out loads of recently - you know, the 'Inside the dressing room, Hutts wears nice gear, Jack's a lazy git' ones or the 'Sit with a stiffie, whilst the pretty girl drives you round the block' ones... Anyway, there does seem a lot of love for Bruce, comments like: "He's the reason some of us signed", "He's given us our confidence back", "He knows how to get us up". I know, I know, they're going to say that aren't they. Well yes, but it really came across like they believe it, watch the Scott Hogan one and he looks convinced! Whether they've formulated this opinion from working with him, or just been brainwashed by the pro-Bruce press, you can't argue that they do seem to be singing from the same hymn sheet. Tactics, pretty football and good looks aside, you get the feeling that if anything, removing Bruce now would seriously damage the morale of the squad... and we've seen what effect that can have. Hypothetically, even if Wagner became available and willing to join, i'd argue that it was probably too risky a swap at this point. Sorry - I disagree totally and would like this to happen asap and allow someone else the opportunity of working pre-season with the squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jas10 Posted June 3, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted June 3, 2017 Ok, let's try to reaaaaaally simplify this if possible. We are stuck with Bruce (for now) and just have to hope that somehow things will drastically change and we will get promoted, it's best to have some hope and try to be positive where possible. There is no point in repeated calls for Bruce to be sacked or replaced because it is not going to happen, not yet at least. But What I, for one, get tired of reading/hearing is the excuses (and, tbf, the odd, reasonable point) made in defence of Bruce time and again that seemingly disregard or let him off for the poor season and miserable displays and performances of last season. Very tired of comments regarding his "experience" and "track record" too, it's no real guarantee of success and it hasn't, as yet, counted for anything during his time with our club. He hasn't shown anything, so far, that suggests that he can make us into a promotion winning side. I hope that can happen this season, whether it's under him or another manager, I don't really care I just want us back in the PL. I can only speak for myself, but I was absolutely livid, distressed and ashamed of our Jan/Feb run of utterly despicable performances and embarassment at the hands of smaller clubs, in particular. I felt that it was inexcusable at the time and that has been the main source of, at least my, anger and negativity toward Bruce. He inherited a revamped AVFC imo and had good resources - I don't think he took full advantage of that or was unable to and has definitely made many poor decisions and even looked lost or inept at times which was very worrying. We got some results later but performances were never that good (appalling in the main really) and there were no signs of any significant improvement and, especially, no signs of encouragement or real reasons for genuine optimism & enthusiasm for the coming season. There has been nothing tangible or practical to suggest that we will be able to challenge for promotion and I cannot understand anyone's confidence in that - but I kind of applaud those who somehow hold hope and optimism too. Now, changes that will be made and action, mainly behind the scenes, that is taken (which we are not privy to) may well change our whole outlook, as fans we can only hope that is the case and try to support the team and really want them to achieve success. I just don't think there's anything wrong with criticising Bruce, and the/some players, for the shit show we witnessed last season. This thread has become very repetitive, for both sides of the "argument", but maybe that's understandable at times. It is hard to have any genuine optimism, Hope is the main thing to cling to for now but if we see and hear of some exciting changes in the playing and coaching areas then that should help. I just hope we can rise again and progress, we need to achieve our ambitions asap and our immediate one should be automatic promotion... 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 2 hours ago, Grasshopper said: Ok if you are soooooooooooo sure, do you want to bet your left bollock on it? Bad News GH.....lost it in active service. Now you have made me feel a right bollock 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Maybe I was wrong about our style of football and that you can succeed with it? Andorra seem to be doing fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dave J Posted June 10, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted June 10, 2017 On 03/06/2017 at 18:02, Jas10 said: Ok, let's try to reaaaaaally simplify this if possible. We are stuck with Bruce (for now) and just have to hope that somehow things will drastically change and we will get promoted, it's best to have some hope and try to be positive where possible. There is no point in repeated calls for Bruce to be sacked or replaced because it is not going to happen, not yet at least. But What I, for one, get tired of reading/hearing is the excuses (and, tbf, the odd, reasonable point) made in defence of Bruce time and again that seemingly disregard or let him off for the poor season and miserable displays and performances of last season. Very tired of comments regarding his "experience" and "track record" too, it's no real guarantee of success and it hasn't, as yet, counted for anything during his time with our club. He hasn't shown anything, so far, that suggests that he can make us into a promotion winning side. I hope that can happen this season, whether it's under him or another manager, I don't really care I just want us back in the PL. I can only speak for myself, but I was absolutely livid, distressed and ashamed of our Jan/Feb run of utterly despicable performances and embarassment at the hands of smaller clubs, in particular. I felt that it was inexcusable at the time and that has been the main source of, at least my, anger and negativity toward Bruce. He inherited a revamped AVFC imo and had good resources - I don't think he took full advantage of that or was unable to and has definitely made many poor decisions and even looked lost or inept at times which was very worrying. We got some results later but performances were never that good (appalling in the main really) and there were no signs of any significant improvement and, especially, no signs of encouragement or real reasons for genuine optimism & enthusiasm for the coming season. There has been nothing tangible or practical to suggest that we will be able to challenge for promotion and I cannot understand anyone's confidence in that - but I kind of applaud those who somehow hold hope and optimism too. Now, changes that will be made and action, mainly behind the scenes, that is taken (which we are not privy to) may well change our whole outlook, as fans we can only hope that is the case and try to support the team and really want them to achieve success. I just don't think there's anything wrong with criticising Bruce, and the/some players, for the shit show we witnessed last season. This thread has become very repetitive, for both sides of the "argument", but maybe that's understandable at times. It is hard to have any genuine optimism, Hope is the main thing to cling to for now but if we see and hear of some exciting changes in the playing and coaching areas then that should help. I just hope we can rise again and progress, we need to achieve our ambitions asap and our immediate one should be automatic promotion... What a great post and I agree with so many of your sentiments - I only differ in as much that I feel / would like him to go now - however I do also recognise this is not going to happen any time soon - so through gritted teeth I will back him - totally in hope but not a lot of expection in all honesty as far as his managerial abilities are concerned- I do think we will get back to the prem sooner rather than later - and if we get off to a good start then we could maintain momentum just like a rolling juggernaut - however I would say this will be in spite of SB being at the helm and not because he's at the helm 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted June 10, 2017 Visiting Supporter Share Posted June 10, 2017 On 03/06/2017 at 18:02, Jas10 said: Ok, let's try to reaaaaaally simplify this if possible. We are stuck with Bruce (for now) and just have to hope that somehow things will drastically change and we will get promoted, it's best to have some hope and try to be positive where possible. There is no point in repeated calls for Bruce to be sacked or replaced because it is not going to happen, not yet at least. But What I, for one, get tired of reading/hearing is the excuses (and, tbf, the odd, reasonable point) made in defence of Bruce time and again that seemingly disregard or let him off for the poor season and miserable displays and performances of last season. Very tired of comments regarding his "experience" and "track record" too, it's no real guarantee of success and it hasn't, as yet, counted for anything during his time with our club. He hasn't shown anything, so far, that suggests that he can make us into a promotion winning side. I hope that can happen this season, whether it's under him or another manager, I don't really care I just want us back in the PL. I can only speak for myself, but I was absolutely livid, distressed and ashamed of our Jan/Feb run of utterly despicable performances and embarassment at the hands of smaller clubs, in particular. I felt that it was inexcusable at the time and that has been the main source of, at least my, anger and negativity toward Bruce. He inherited a revamped AVFC imo and had good resources - I don't think he took full advantage of that or was unable to and has definitely made many poor decisions and even looked lost or inept at times which was very worrying. We got some results later but performances were never that good (appalling in the main really) and there were no signs of any significant improvement and, especially, no signs of encouragement or real reasons for genuine optimism & enthusiasm for the coming season. There has been nothing tangible or practical to suggest that we will be able to challenge for promotion and I cannot understand anyone's confidence in that - but I kind of applaud those who somehow hold hope and optimism too. Now, changes that will be made and action, mainly behind the scenes, that is taken (which we are not privy to) may well change our whole outlook, as fans we can only hope that is the case and try to support the team and really want them to achieve success. I just don't think there's anything wrong with criticising Bruce, and the/some players, for the shit show we witnessed last season. This thread has become very repetitive, for both sides of the "argument", but maybe that's understandable at times. It is hard to have any genuine optimism, Hope is the main thing to cling to for now but if we see and hear of some exciting changes in the playing and coaching areas then that should help. I just hope we can rise again and progress, we need to achieve our ambitions asap and our immediate one should be automatic promotion... Great post. I couldn't believe how defensively Bruce set Villa up against a Spurs second string in the Cup. I was absolutely disgusted with that. No effort to win the game just concentrated on containment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted June 11, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted June 11, 2017 16 hours ago, sne said: Maybe I was wrong about our style of football and that you can succeed with it? Andorra seem to be doing fine. That's a poster board for "effective possession". Despite such a one-sided possession stat and only making a quarter of their opponents passes they had only 2 less shots on target - and made 1 of them pay. It's how Leicester won the PL last year. Sadly, this is not our style. We barely register a shot on goal. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 On 03/06/2017 at 19:02, Jas10 said: What I, for one, get tired of reading/hearing is the excuses (and, tbf, the odd, reasonable point) made in defence of Bruce time and again that seemingly disregard or let him off for the poor season and miserable displays and performances of last season. It was unforgivable and robbed us of 1 season of our history. On 03/06/2017 at 19:02, Jas10 said: Very tired of comments regarding his "experience" and "track record" too, it's no real guarantee of success and it hasn't, as yet, counted for anything during his time with our club. He hasn't shown anything, so far, that suggests that he can make us into a promotion winning side. This is what really gets me. It is of absolute no comfort or even credibilty coming from some post saying "yes, Bruce has done it before, its 100% certain that he'll do it for us" Just a thought, before you undergo serious heart surgery, do you take comfort from the said Doctor or do you listen to anyone and his dog for their opinion? On 03/06/2017 at 19:02, Jas10 said: I can only speak for myself, but I was absolutely livid, distressed and ashamed of our Jan/Feb run of utterly despicable performances and embarassment at the hands of smaller clubs, in particular. I felt that it was inexcusable at the time and that has been the main source of, at least my, anger and negativity toward Bruce. He inherited a revamped AVFC imo and had good resources - I don't think he took full advantage of that or was unable to and has definitely made many poor decisions and even looked lost or inept at times which was very worrying. his Too postmatch interview was disturbing - he looked valiumed out to me On 03/06/2017 at 19:02, Jas10 said: There has been nothing tangible or practical to suggest that we will be able to challenge for promotion and I cannot understand anyone's confidence in that - but I kind of applaud those who somehow hold hope and optimism too. sorry I cant applaud that. its somewhere between blind faith and delusion The most telling part of the post. The excuses rolled out time and time again over such long period of time is delusion at least. Just going on probability it is easier to fail than achieve so the mere train of thought that "Bruce will do it anyway" is by definition completely wrong. I want us promoted this season -1st/2nd so we dont have to negotiate any tomfoolery in the playoffs. For the future we need immediate promotion, hanging around here is a waste of time money and only makes it year on year harder to get promotion and year on year harder to stay up once promoted. i wish I didnt have to be so "out of line" but he needs sacking now and managers need to be lining up for an interview begging for the oppertunity rather than being hunted by lesser clubs putting themselves out if our reach (Monk being only 1 example) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 On 11/06/2017 at 10:34, ozvillafan said: That's a poster board for "effective possession". Despite such a one-sided possession stat and only making a quarter of their opponents passes they had only 2 less shots on target - and made 1 of them pay. It's how Leicester won the PL last year. Sadly, this is not our style. We barely register a shot on goal. Less than 50% pass accuracy though, so at least we are getting that one right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BOF Posted June 12, 2017 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted June 12, 2017 37 minutes ago, Grasshopper said: This is what really gets me. It is of absolute no comfort or even credibilty coming from some post saying "yes, Bruce has done it before, its 100% certain that he'll do it for us" What really gets me is being misquoted. No-one is saying 100%. So for you to pretend the 'other side' are saying anything approaching a 'guarantee' of promotion based on previous seasons is blinkered and disingenuous, and it makes discussion more difficult when you are demonstrating that you aren't actually hearing what the other side is saying, but rather you are assuming their meaning. It has been said in here countless times by both sides of the coin that there are no guarantees at all for promotoin. That, regardless of what type of manager you hire, there is no promise of promotion. That it's all opinion, which it is. The only thing that isn't opinion is; yes; whether someone has demonstrated whether they can do it, or have done it before. It's on that basis that people are giving Bruce the chance to do it again. They're not saying we 100% will. They're saying that if you're going to give anyone the chance, and if the model is to get up asap, then you would do worse than start with someone who knows what is required. That's all. And, again, the support is not open-ended. It's not Bruce or bust. If next season looks like turning into a write-off then the knives will be out, make no mistake. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerner's Driver Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 7 minutes ago, BOF said: What really gets me is being misquoted. No-one is saying 100%. So for you to pretend the 'other side' are saying anything approaching a 'guarantee' of promotion based on previous seasons is blinkered and disingenuous, and it makes discussion more difficult when you are demonstrating that you aren't actually hearing what the other side is saying, but rather you are assuming their meaning. But one doesn't listen when one is certain, why should they? There is literally no point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 2 hours ago, Grasshopper said: Just a thought, before you undergo serious heart surgery, do you take comfort from the said Doctor or do you listen to anyone and his dog for their opinion? Do you go with the doctor who has performed the surgery successfully before or roll the dice on an unknown? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 4 hours ago, BOF said: What really gets me is being misquoted. No-one is saying 100%. So for you to pretend the 'other side' are saying anything approaching a 'guarantee' of promotion based on previous seasons is blinkered and disingenuous, and it makes discussion more difficult when you are demonstrating that you aren't actually hearing what the other side is saying, but rather you are assuming their meaning. It has been said in here countless times by both sides of the coin that there are no guarantees at all for promotoin. That, regardless of what type of manager you hire, there is no promise of promotion. That it's all opinion, which it is. The only thing that isn't opinion is; yes; whether someone has demonstrated whether they can do it, or have done it before. It's on that basis that people are giving Bruce the chance to do it again. They're not saying we 100% will. They're saying that if you're going to give anyone the chance, and if the model is to get up asap, then you would do worse than start with someone who knows what is required. That's all. And, again, the support is not open-ended. It's not Bruce or bust. If next season looks like turning into a write-off then the knives will be out, make no mistake. Sounds like reason to me BOF, you know that's not allowed in this thread. We're either all on our knees praying to the Bruce or we all go home and throw knives at a printout of his face, there can't possibly be any middle-ground! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 2 hours ago, lexicon said: Do you go with the doctor who has performed the surgery successfully before or roll the dice on an unknown? I get the feeling he does neither and performs the surgery himself..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 47 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: Sounds like reason to me BOF, you know that's not allowed in this thread. We're either all on our knees praying to the Bruce or we all go home and throw knives at a printout of his face, there can't possibly be any middle-ground! Is this not the whole crux of this thread? Some of us want him gone - whilst other would like him to stay- is there any middle ground room ? Sorry not being funny or disrespectful to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 49 minutes ago, Dave J said: Is this not the whole crux of this thread? Some of us want him gone - whilst other would like him to stay- is there any middle ground room ? Sorry not being funny or disrespectful to you It's the way in which the argument is presented more than anything, I'd say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 4 hours ago, Dave J said: Is this not the whole crux of this thread? Some of us want him gone - whilst other would like him to stay- is there any middle ground room ? Sorry not being funny or disrespectful to you It's not the 'Do you want Steve Bruce out, yes or no?' thread though is it? I don't see why you have to fall in one of those camps, what about the 'I'm less than enamoured thus far but think he should have at least a bit more time to be judged upon' camp? Or does that just not roll off the tongue well enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said: It's not the 'Do you want Steve Bruce out, yes or no?' thread though is it? I don't see why you have to fall in one of those camps, what about the 'I'm less than enamoured thus far but think he should have at least a bit more time to be judged upon' camp? Or does that just not roll off the tongue well enough? I think majority are in this camp which is why they defend him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dounavilla Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 This thread....... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 9 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said: It's not the 'Do you want Steve Bruce out, yes or no?' thread though is it? I don't see why you have to fall in one of those camps, what about the 'I'm less than enamoured thus far but think he should have at least a bit more time to be judged upon' camp? Or does that just not roll off the tongue well enough? So with respect to you - is this not Bruce in then? if so and that's your views then that's perfectly fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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