Steve Bruce

[DaveAV1]

55 minutes ago, Lerner's Driver said:

An excellent post, but you will have lost most with the first sentence. Nuance is the enemy of the people.

Nothing nuanced about that patronising assumption. 

[sheepyvillian]

4 hours ago, DaveAV1 said:

Nothing nuanced about that patronising assumption. 

You didn't let that one pass you by ?

No flies on you, Dave.

[DaveAV1]

1 hour ago, sheepyvillian said:

You didn't let that one pass you by ?

No flies on you, Dave.

No but you can see where they’ve been 

[Dave J]

23 hours ago, blandy said:

I don't think this is right at all, despite my view on Bruce. He (and many managers) can clearly have a huge impact on talented players. There's so much more to the game than natural talent. Whether it's getting players to release the ball at the right time, to encourage them to try things and not worry about losing the ball, whether it's teaching them when or where not to try things. Or about discipline and not letting opposition wind you up and get you to get booked for reacting. Whether it's calming players down, getting them to relax, or geeing them up. Making them feel wanted and important, or stopping them from getting too big for their boots. He won't be able to teach him new tricks with the ball, but there's so much on the mental side, and professionalism and al the rest that managers can impart.

You do realise that at least 50% of what you have posted here is literally all about having natural talent - nothing to do whatsoever with coaching ? You have in some ways acknowledged my point - I do however agree with you when you speak of managers improving professionalism in their squad - but this is a slightly different argument to the debate around Jack.

[blandy]

25 minutes ago, Dave J said:

You do realise that at least 50% of what you have posted here is literally all about having natural talent - nothing to do whatsoever with coaching ? You have in some ways acknowledged my point - I do however agree with you when you speak of managers improving professionalism in their squad - but this is a slightly different argument to the debate around Jack.

I don’t see it that way Dave, but each to their own. I see getting players to use their talent for the good of the team, to make the most of their gifts, to understand where it most hurts the opposition, when and where to make runs, when to be selfless and when to be greedy, when to conserve energy and when to up the tempo. All those things managers should be able to add. He’s not the best at that, Bruce, by along way, but he’s had a part to play.

[Dave J]

33 minutes ago, blandy said:

I don’t see it that way Dave, but each to their own. I see getting players to use their talent for the good of the team, to make the most of their gifts, to understand where it most hurts the opposition, when and where to make runs, when to be selfless and when to be greedy, when to conserve energy and when to up the tempo. All those things managers should be able to add. He’s not the best at that, Bruce, by along way, but he’s had a part to play.

But Blandy I say again all the things you speak of are all part of being a naturally talented and gifted footballer - and do not need to be coached - in less gifted players I absolutely agree but not with Jack.

can you imagine Gregory telling Merse what to do? I can just imagine his response - I use Merse an an example because Jack has been likened to Merse on here

[Tommo_b]

Grealish is good but he isn’t that good! 

[blandy]

1 minute ago, Dave J said:

But Blandy I say again all the things you speak of are all part of being a naturally talented and gifted footballer - and do not need to be coached - in less gifted players I absolutely agree but not with Jack.

can you imagine Gregory telling Merse what to do? I can just imagine his response - I use Merse an an example because Jack has been likened to Merse on here

They’re all things that players of any ability can improve with coaching. They’re all things that intelligence and understanding and learning can improve. Talent will always stand out, but for aatalented player to make the absolute best of their abilities they can be improved by coaching and mentoring. Absolutely everyone from Christiani Ronaldo or Messi to players at park level can be improved, or will have been improved through coaching and learning the game from others, I’m my opinion. Talent alone is not enough.

[Zatman]

6 minutes ago, Dave J said:

But Blandy I say again all the things you speak of are all part of being a naturally talented and gifted footballer - and do not need to be coached - in less gifted players I absolutely agree but not with Jack.

can you imagine Gregory telling Merse what to do? I can just imagine his response - I use Merse an an example because Jack has been likened to Merse on here

Jack was borderline a wasted talent when Bruce took over. Im no Bruce fan but you are crazy if think Bruce had no impact on him. Him staying is one of only reasons Jack will stay

[YLN]

9 minutes ago, Dave J said:

But Blandy I say again all the things you speak of are all part of being a naturally talented and gifted footballer - and do not need to be coached - in less gifted players I absolutely agree but not with Jack.

can you imagine Gregory telling Merse what to do? I can just imagine his response - I use Merse an an example because Jack has been likened to Merse on here

Paul Merson would not have been a professional footballer if he was born the same year as Jack. 

[Dave J]

41 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Jack was borderline a wasted talent when Bruce took over. Im no Bruce fan but you are crazy if think Bruce had no impact on him. Him staying is one of only reasons Jack will stay

I would agree with your first line - Jack was very clearly in danger of throwing it all away - I would also agree that Bruce most likely had a word in his ear about this - but for me the rest is down to Jack finally maturing, playing in a lower standard which would also have improved his confidence and therefore allowing his natural abilities to shine 

[VillaCas]

My takeaway from the opening fixtures I've seen (and read reports) is that the standard in the Championship has risen again. My conclusion is that Bruce was not quite up to it last season and will be further short of the mark this campaign

I like Bruce - he seems a very decent bloke and an experienced and competent manager - We all know he has taken teams up, in the past, but these are different and tougher times now and whilst I still think he has enough to get a team competitive (as we were last season) he does not have quite enough any longer to be relied upon to get them out of this division.

I was told on here during his first season that we were going up, and whilst we were not lucky to avoid relegation (as SB put about), promotion under anyone would have been a real achievement (Althugh I think Wagner would have taken us up and we so nearly could have had him)

At the start of his second season many posters were certain that we would go up (one prominent poster bet me £50 for Acorns - did that get paid??) but I was equally certain that we would fll short - short of automatic promotion which should have been our expectation, and short of play-offs to which SBs dour football was ill suited

This season again we are being told to stick with Steve and this season again he will be (further) short of the mark - I'm not sure how the finances will play out, but if we need to rely on our talented youth players being developed, Bruce is definetly not the man for the job.

Another season wasted, another season in stasis - I think Bruce will be gone by Xmas and hopefully the new owners will work some financial magic to allow the new guy to strentghen for the 2019-20 season

Again I'm not anti-Bruce, I just think his time has passed and the Championship today is a different proposition to when he had his success

I hope I'm wrong, I really really do

Edited August 5, 2018 by VillaCas

[MellbergsBeard]

9 minutes ago, VillaCas said:

My takeaway from the opening fixtures I've seen (and read reports) is that the standard in the Championship has risen again. My conclusion is that Bruce was not quite up to it last season and will be further short of the mark this campaign

I like Bruce - he seems a very decent bloke and an experienced and competent manager - We all know he has taken teams up, in the past, but these are different and tougher times now and whilst I still think he has enough to get a team competitive (as we were last season) he does not have quite enough any longer to be relied upon to get them out of this division.

I was told on here during his first season that we were going up, and whilst we were not lucky to avoid relegation (as SB put about), promotion under anyone would have been a real achievement (Althugh I think Wagner would have taken us up and we so nearly could have had him)

At the start of his second season many posters were certain that we would go up (one prominent poster bet me £50 for Acorns - did that get paid??) but I was equally certain that we would fll short - short of automatic promotion which should have been our expectation, and short of play-offs to which SBs dour football was ill suited

This season again we are being told to stick with Steve and this season again he will be (further) short of the mark - I'm not sure how the finances will play out, but if we need to rely on our talented youth players being developed, Bruce is definetly not the man for the job.

Another season wasted, another season in stasis - I think Bruce will be gone by Xmas and hopefully the new owners will work some financial magic to allow the new guy to strentghen for the 2019-20 season

Again I'm not anti-Bruce, I just think his time has passed and the Championship today is a different proposition to when he had his success

I hope I'm wrong, I really really do

This is how i feel and have felt 100%

[Johnnyp]

Leeds started with 10 of last season's players under bielsa today and blew stoke away. The scoreline flattered stoke. Every body looked like they knew what they were doing. Clearly i mean clearly tactically tuned in. Tactics.. Oh yeah the thing our guy openly said he doesn't do.

[Dave J]

24 minutes ago, VillaCas said:

My takeaway from the opening fixtures I've seen (and read reports) is that the standard in the Championship has risen again. My conclusion is that Bruce was not quite up to it last season and will be further short of the mark this campaign

I like Bruce - he seems a very decent bloke and an experienced and competent manager - We all know he has taken teams up, in the past, but these are different and tougher times now and whilst I still think he has enough to get a team competitive (as we were last season) he does not have quite enough any longer to be relied upon to get them out of this division.

I was told on here during his first season that we were going up, and whilst we were not lucky to avoid relegation (as SB put about), promotion under anyone would have been a real achievement (Althugh I think Wagner would have taken us up and we so nearly could have had him)

At the start of his second season many posters were certain that we would go up (one prominent poster bet me £50 for Acorns - did that get paid??) but I was equally certain that we would fll short - short of automatic promotion which should have been our expectation, and short of play-offs to which SBs dour football was ill suited

This season again we are being told to stick with Steve and this season again he will be (further) short of the mark - I'm not sure how the finances will play out, but if we need to rely on our talented youth players being developed, Bruce is definetly not the man for the job.

Another season wasted, another season in stasis - I think Bruce will be gone by Xmas and hopefully the new owners will work some financial magic to allow the new guy to strentghen for the 2019-20 season

Again I'm not anti-Bruce, I just think his time has passed and the Championship today is a different proposition to when he had his success

I hope I'm wrong, I really really do

Your not wrong- you hit the nail on the head for me - Bruce is in my view a yesterdays man and not noted for developing talent - which is why I struggle with the concept that he is instrumental in the Jack Grealish we now have on our hands in terms of ability that would always come through eventually  Bruce might well have taken him to one side and read the riot act to Jack and if so credit is due  - but as for changing him as a player - I don't get it.

my apologies - I appear to have hijacked your post into the Bruce/ Grealish debate 

[Fairy In Boots]

I know from the person who had the convo with Jack  last year when asked personally by this person “you’re form is getting better kid” Jack replied “listen mate it’s JT he’s helped me no end, gives me loads of advise and has really helped my game” 

I don’t know Jacks opinion on Bruce tbh, I’m guessing Jack along with most of the squad likes Bruce especially after his off field troubles.  But liking and thinking someone is good at their job are 2 very different things. 

[macandally]

28 minutes ago, Johnnyp said:

Leeds started with 10 of last season's players under bielsa today and blew stoke away. The scoreline flattered stoke. Every body looked like they knew what they were doing. Clearly i mean clearly tactically tuned in. Tactics.. Oh yeah the thing our guy openly said he doesn't do.

Came here to post something similar, Sheffield Utd yesterday was very similar, pace, movement and clearly coached.  My only question was whether they can maintain that style of play all year.

Both of those sides made the way Bruce has us playing look lethargic and clueless.  He has blamed the previous owners, the players that were brought, the players he has bought, FFP, the size of the club, the pressure from the fans and just about everything else.  He is just as much a charlatan as Xia in my book and Hans had more than enough investment to get us up.

I am fed up of this “he’s a good bloke” stuff, he is an employee not a friend of the family.  I am happy to offer £20 every year on Bruce NOT getting us up, the longer he is here, the bigger the gap between what we are am doing what Aston Villa should be.

 

 

[Johnnyp]

8 minutes ago, macandally said:

Came here to post something similar, Sheffield Utd yesterday was very similar, pace, movement and clearly coached.  My only question was whether they can maintain that style of play all year.

Both of those sides made the way Bruce has us playing look lethargic and clueless.  He has blamed the previous owners, the players that were brought, the players he has bought, FFP, the size of the club, the pressure from the fans and just about everything else.  He is just as much a charlatan as Xia in my book and Hans had more than enough investment to get us up.

I am fed up of this “he’s a good bloke” stuff, he is an employee not a friend of the family.  I am happy to offer £20 every year on Bruce NOT getting us up, the longer he is here, the bigger the gap between what we are am doing what Aston Villa should be.

 

 

It's hardly no coincidence really that the 2 most impressive sides in the opening weekend Brentford and Leeds played attractive, high intensity and creative football. Stoke had a look ( at least today anyway ) like us in our first season in this league. Expensively assembled squad but played as individuals.

[bobzy]

21 hours ago, Dave J said:

i don't rate Bruce - you clearly do and that's ok - however I cannot accept a manager of Bruce's ilk could make any significant difference  to a player of Jack's ability/ temperament - Jack was always going to come good regardless of who is in charge - on what basis could you challenge this?

Of course you're not going to give any credit at all to Bruce  

[bobzy]

30 minutes ago, macandally said:

Came here to post something similar, Sheffield Utd yesterday was very similar, pace, movement and clearly coached.  My only question was whether they can maintain that style of play all year.

Both of those sides made the way Bruce has us playing look lethargic and clueless.  He has blamed the previous owners, the players that were brought, the players he has bought, FFP, the size of the club, the pressure from the fans and just about everything else.  He is just as much a charlatan as Xia in my book and Hans had more than enough investment to get us up.

I am fed up of this “he’s a good bloke” stuff, he is an employee not a friend of the family.  I am happy to offer £20 every year on Bruce NOT getting us up, the longer he is here, the bigger the gap between what we are am doing what Aston Villa should be.

We haven't even played a game this season    

This place is ridiculous.