Dave J Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 9 hours ago, NurembergVillan said: That's the spirit! Come on Villa! NV - there was a little more to it than just this - and surely that's not the first time you have seen those sentiments? In fact I would hazard a guess that there is a fair old number of Bruce supporters that wouldn't necessarily want him here next season - I absolutely do not - but for what it's worth I kinda think it would be unfair in lots of ways to get rid of him should we get promotion- but then the thought of him managing us in the prem worries me immensely 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted January 22, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted January 22, 2018 8 hours ago, TRO said: You make a very good point.....we don't see it so much, because its incremental. We have improved in so many ways. like a kid growing up and their long lost Aunt sees him and says" hasn't he grown" but the mother doesn't notice so easily. Weirdly I have just had a look at how The Cleveland Browns are getting on and impossibly they are doing WORSE since Randy Lerner left. Sometimes it's impossible to halt the decline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 11 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: I said during the poor December run that even if we were to go on another run of 3/4 wins I wouldn't be getting carried away, I'd always be wondering when we're about to hit the wall again. However NOW I see what people were asking for when they said they wanted to see something more sustainable in terms of the style. Even though there were some comfortable, controlled performances such as QPR and Preston compared to now they seem like the low bar. We finally look way too good for the league. We're setting our stall out to blow teams away. We're a composed, skillful, dominant team and rather than feel nervous about our next game, or the one after that, I'm more excited to see whether this likeable and exciting bunch of players can rack up a cricket score. Steve Bruce, as the manager and the man who takes the flack when things aren't going well, deserves as much credit as anyone for that. He has gone from doing an ok job in my eyes to doing a very good one in short order and I'm utterly gripped by it. Top class post - this in a nutshell ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Yes, thank heavens someone was clever enough to hire Agnew who has transformed the team from the one that was run by that useless idiot Bruce. Kudos to the guy who hired him. That would be, errrr... Oh. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante_Lockhart Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 2 hours ago, sidcow said: Weirdly I have just had a look at how The Cleveland Browns are getting on and impossibly they are doing WORSE since Randy Lerner left. Sometimes it's impossible to halt the decline. The Browns have always been shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 30 minutes ago, Dante_Lockhart said: The Browns have always been shit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 22, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted January 22, 2018 48 minutes ago, briny_ear said: Yes, thank heavens someone was clever enough to hire Agnew who has transformed the team from the one that was run by that useless idiot Bruce. Kudos to the guy who hired him. That would be, errrr... Oh. This is what I was getting at earlier saying people are tying themselves up in knots trying to remove credit from Bruce. So desperate to take all the credit away from Bruce, they're giving it all to Agnew, without realising that simultaneously gives it back to Bruce. A manager who realised, since at least the Summer it would seem, that the attack needed addressing and he wasn't the best man for that specific job, identified a coach who would do the job and was patient enough to wait long enough to get his man and has seen instant results. Seems like pretty **** good management to me. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 One thing you have to credit Bruce for is the unity of the squad. This is the first time in a long time that i have seen players on the pitch who work so hard for the badge. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: This is what I was getting at earlier saying people are tying themselves up in knots trying to remove credit from Bruce. So desperate to take all the credit away from Bruce, they're giving it all to Agnew, without realising that simultaneously gives it back to Bruce. A manager who realised, since at least the Summer it would seem, that the attack needed addressing and he wasn't the best man for that specific job, identified a coach who would do the job and was patient enough to wait long enough to get his man and has seen instant results. Seems like pretty **** good management to me. Seeing as most fans realised we needed something to change in our football last season you are giving credit to Bruce for doing it so late we were nearly out the promotion push? Being an awfull attacking side was the main reason fans wanted Bruce out. If Bruce wanted Agnew so much he should’ve got him off garden leaving in the summer and compensated him accordingly instead of waiting 6 months. Agnew seems to be the catalyst for turning a talented group of players into a talented team. I’ll give Bruce credit for getting him in just in time but surely we all must worry why it’s took him so long to address it. If Agnew didn’t have an immediate impact Bruce could’ve been sacked then if he did wait for him he’d have looked a right prat. If something isn’t working you can’t afford to wait 6 games let alone 6 months or however long he did. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, dn1982 said: Seeing as most fans realised we needed something to change in our football last season you are giving credit to Bruce for doing it so late we were nearly out the promotion push? Being an awfull attacking side was the main reason fans wanted Bruce out. If Bruce wanted Agnew so much he should’ve got him off garden leaving in the summer and compensated him accordingly instead of waiting 6 months. Agnew seems to be the catalyst for turning a talented group of players into a talented team. I’ll give Bruce credit for getting him in just in time but surely we all must worry why it’s took him so long to address it. If Agnew didn’t have an immediate impact Bruce could’ve been sacked then if he did wait for him he’d have looked a right prat. If something isn’t working you can’t afford to wait 6 games let alone 6 months or however long he did. I don’t think you understand how gardening leave works. I’ve been on gardening leave in the past and I COULD NOT take any other employment because I was technically still contracted to my previous employer. You can’t just compensate the employee and take them off gardening leave, it doesn’t work like that, and it’s extremely unlikely the employer keeping the employee on gardening leave will allow early severance. There’s a reason people are put on gardening leave for the length of time they are. This would have been the case for Agnew. And anyway - this Agnew thing is being so over played. I didn’t see anything in the goals on Saturday that suggests he’s giving the players some ninja level coaching. There was two excellent deliveries with Hogan showing the reasons why we bought him from Brentford. And then a bit of individual magic with a tap in from Conor who’s known for arriving late in the box. Edited January 22, 2018 by Morley_crosses_to_Withe 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted January 22, 2018 Moderator Share Posted January 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, dn1982 said: If Bruce wanted Agnew so much he should’ve got him off garden leaving in the summer That's not how gardening leave works. The whole point is that your current employer won't release you from your contract but has to pay you - even if you're not working - so that you can't work for someone else, usually a rival. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 22, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, dn1982 said: Seeing as most fans realised we needed something to change in our football last season you are giving credit to Bruce for doing it so late we were nearly out the promotion push? Being an awfull attacking side was the main reason fans wanted Bruce out. If Bruce wanted Agnew so much he should’ve got him off garden leaving in the summer and compensated him accordingly instead of waiting 6 months. Agnew seems to be the catalyst for turning a talented group of players into a talented team. I’ll give Bruce credit for getting him in just in time but surely we all must worry why it’s took him so long to address it. If Agnew didn’t have an immediate impact Bruce could’ve been sacked then if he did wait for him he’d have looked a right prat. Bolded the important bits, setting aside that you don't understand what Gardening leave is. 13 minutes ago, dn1982 said: If something isn’t working you can’t afford to wait 6 games let alone 6 months or however long he did. 1st December we were 4th in the league, and that was the end of our good run and the start of our wobble, which is the period I would say it "wasn't working". Agnew was hired 3 games later. Edited January 22, 2018 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 5 minutes ago, Morley_crosses_to_Withe said: I don’t think you understand how gardening leave works. I’ve been on gardening leave in the past and I COULD NOT take any other employment because I was technically still contracted to my previous employer. You can’t just compensate the employee and take them off gardening leave, it doesn’t work like that, and it’s extremely unlikely the employer keeping the employee on gardening leave will allow early severance. There’s a reason people are put on gardening leave for the length of time they are. This would have been the case for Agnew. And anyway - this Agnew thing is being so over played. I didn’t see anything in the goals on Saturday that suggests he’s giving the players some ninja level coaching. There was two excellent deliveries with Hogan showing the reasons why we bought him from Brentford. And then a bit of individual magic with a tap in from Conor who’s known for arriving late in the box. Agnew was placed on gardening leave and he didn’t want not to resign because of his lucrative contract. If he wanted to quit and walk with nothing I’m sure he could’ve. He was offered other roles at Boro but turned them down. My point is if Bruce wanted him in the summer Agnew could’ve walked out with nothing. We could then have compensated his loss with a bigger salary. Contracts are broken in football all the time. This wouldn't have been the exception. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 5 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Bolded the important bits, setting aside that you don't understand what Gardening leave is. 1st December we were 4th in the league, and that was the end of our good run and the start of our wobble, which is the period I would say it "wasn't working". Agnew was hired 3 games later. Im aware you think Bruce had us playing brilliant football for the whole of 2017 but most fans thought it was turgid stuff in the main. That’s why Agnew is being pointed at as the catalyst. The was appointment of Calderwood last year seemed to have the opposite affect. If Bruce knew we needed a better attacking coach he was very brave to decide to wait 6 months. I know what gardening leave is and i also know if you want to break a contract it’s easy to do especially in football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 1 minute ago, dn1982 said: Agnew was placed on gardening leave and he didn’t want not to resign because of his lucrative contract. If he wanted to quit and walk with nothing I’m sure he could’ve. He was offered other roles at Boro but turned them down. My point is if Bruce wanted him in the summer Agnew could’ve walked out with nothing. We could then have compensated his loss with a bigger salary. Contracts are broken in football all the time. This wouldn't have been the exception. I doubt Bruce has the authority to dictate pay and contracts. If he wants Agnew it would then be up to Wyness and others to deal with it. Bruce has deserved a lot of criticism but this really isn't one. I also think the form and consistent performances is more to do with Bruce than Agnew. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) 12 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: I said during the poor December run that even if we were to go on another run of 3/4 wins I wouldn't be getting carried away, I'd always be wondering when we're about to hit the wall again. However NOW I see what people were asking for when they said they wanted to see something more sustainable in terms of the style. Even though there were some comfortable, controlled performances such as QPR and Preston compared to now they seem like the low bar. We finally look way too good for the league. We're setting our stall out to blow teams away. We're a composed, skillful, dominant team and rather than feel nervous about our next game, or the one after that, I'm more excited to see whether this likeable and exciting bunch of players can rack up a cricket score. Steve Bruce, as the manager and the man who takes the flack when things aren't going well, deserves as much credit as anyone for that. He has gone from doing an ok job in my eyes to doing a very good one in short order and I'm utterly gripped by it. Decent post. Just decent, not worthy of my 'likes' though. Edited January 22, 2018 by sexbelowsound Added smirky face to avoid being massacred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 12 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: I said during the poor December run that even if we were to go on another run of 3/4 wins I wouldn't be getting carried away, I'd always be wondering when we're about to hit the wall again. However NOW I see what people were asking for when they said they wanted to see something more sustainable in terms of the style. Even though there were some comfortable, controlled performances such as QPR and Preston compared to now they seem like the low bar. We finally look way too good for the league. We're setting our stall out to blow teams away. We're a composed, skillful, dominant team and rather than feel nervous about our next game, or the one after that, I'm more excited to see whether this likeable and exciting bunch of players can rack up a cricket score. Steve Bruce, as the manager and the man who takes the flack when things aren't going well, deserves as much credit as anyone for that. He has gone from doing an ok job in my eyes to doing a very good one in short order and I'm utterly gripped by it. Nail on head. Spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 39 minutes ago, dn1982 said: Seeing as most fans realised we needed something to change in our football last season you are giving credit to Bruce for doing it so late we were nearly out the promotion push? Being an awfull attacking side was the main reason fans wanted Bruce out. If Bruce wanted Agnew so much he should’ve got him off garden leaving in the summer and compensated him accordingly instead of waiting 6 months. Agnew seems to be the catalyst for turning a talented group of players into a talented team. I’ll give Bruce credit for getting him in just in time but surely we all must worry why it’s took him so long to address it. If Agnew didn’t have an immediate impact Bruce could’ve been sacked then if he did wait for him he’d have looked a right prat. If something isn’t working you can’t afford to wait 6 games let alone 6 months or however long he did. Brilliant post and sums it up for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 22, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted January 22, 2018 17 minutes ago, dn1982 said: Im aware you think Bruce had us playing brilliant football for the whole of 2017 but most fans thought it was turgid stuff in the main. That’s why Agnew is being pointed at as the catalyst. The was appointment of Calderwood last year seemed to have the opposite affect. If Bruce knew we needed a better attacking coach he was very brave to decide to wait 6 months. Well what you're apparently aware of is completely wrong. I don't think that at all. But you said it "wasn't working". Considering we were 4th in the league up until 3 games before Agnew was hired, it would suggest it was working pretty well. It is brave by Bruce. Very brave. But if it works, which current form suggests it could, would you not agree that is a good thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted January 22, 2018 Moderator Share Posted January 22, 2018 3 hours ago, Dave J said: NV - there was a little more to it than just this - and surely that's not the first time you have seen those sentiments? In fact I would hazard a guess that there is a fair old number of Bruce supporters that wouldn't necessarily want him here next season - I absolutely do not - but for what it's worth I kinda think it would be unfair in lots of ways to get rid of him should we get promotion- but then the thought of him managing us in the prem worries me immensely I think this post is a lot more balanced than the one I quoted. I can understand nervousness around him being manager in the PL. But that said, a good many fans will be nervous whoever is manager in the PL. It's not like we had a lovely time when we were last in that division. It's like having a bad experience at the dentist - next time is gonna be tough. I'm 99% sure Bruce in the past talked about not getting beat first and foremost to change the losing mentality of the club. He was then going to turn that into wins, and then into good football. Sadly I haven't got time to look for the quotes. Even if he hasn't said that, it would still have been a sensible strategy. The whole club had got used to being crap and getting beat. I think if we perform for the most part like we have the last few games, over the rest of the season, we'll feel more confident in the PL should we be promoted. That said, a huge amount rests on the depths of Dr X's pockets. A lot has been made of the money we've spent and the wages we pay in this division. If we get promoted in May we're going to need to get our big boy pants on, or we'll be back down here in 12 months time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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