Steve Bruce

[Dave J]

2 minutes ago, bobzy said:

He really hasn’t. Our squad is strong, so it’s not like he’s got nothing to work with, but he hasn’t had vast amounts of resources to work with - that’s just a lie. 

I like that Terry’s wages keep getting brought up, though.

(also, people forget that he is here because of Steve Bruce - not the dolla)

No he is here because it's Aston Villa - if you wish to discount the fortune he will be earning to develop your point then that's fair enough - and I don't think you'll find anyone saying that he's had huge resources- but nevertheless he has had good resource for this league imo 

[bobzy]

1 minute ago, Dave J said:

No he is here because it's Aston Villa - if you wish to discount the fortune he will be earning to develop your point then that's fair enough - and I don't think you'll find anyone saying that he's had huge resources- but nevertheless he has had good resource for this league imo 

He’s spent less, on net, than Barnsley. So no. 

And also no, Terry is here because of Bruce. If Bruce wasn’t here, Terry wouldn’t be here. 

[bannedfromHandV]

45 minutes ago, Dave J said:

I have no agenda against Bruce other than not rating him as a football manager and certainly not to manage us to where we would all like us to be

If this classes as an agenda then maybe I am guilty  ?

As for McCormack I genuinely don't think Bruce has anything to do with any issues that he may or may not have - do I think we could still use Ross ? Absolutely I do - I guess my point against Bruce is that he held out an olive branch to a striker that never scores and whose previous behaviour in my humble opinion left a lot to be desired and yet we have a striker with a proven track record plying his trade on the other side of the world.

As for Bruce's regardless of how it's dressed up he has still had a good resource available to him compared to other teams - you have to think Terry is not here on Buttons is he? So wages are also a factor imo 

We could go round in loops on this for days Dave, I don't expect you to change your position based on my opinion and I'm sure the same applies vice versa. 

Re Terry though, would we have even been able to sign him without Bruce? Honestly we'll never know but I can only assume that he played a large part in JT's decision to join. 

Edited January 19, 2018 by bannedfromHandV

[bannedfromHandV]

55 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

He's divided himself from the fans, it'll take a while and football a hell of a lot better than what he's offered to get me back on side.

If we get promoted, and he stays. He'll be exactly the same. "I've had no money, I'm great, I got the club promoted with no money, I've only been here 3 months, we're only Aston Villa how can we be expected to not lose 3-0 at home to Brighton".

Your great optimism is why we deserve a hero. Not Steve Bruce.

Agnew can stay.

He's divided himself from some fans, certainly not all fans as is clearly demonstrated on here and at matches. 

 

I think you're exaggerating things quite a bit personally, not sure he's ever said he's had no money, he had very little in the summer which is a fact, I've not heard him say I'm great though I'd like to imagine he does have a degree of self confidence - I'd be far more worried if he didn't. And in terms of games we've lost, I think he's been pretty honest in his appraisal on most occasions but, each to their own I guess. 

Edited January 19, 2018 by bannedfromHandV

[sne]

He is however allowed to use the "resources" that has been spent on players before he got here, and sell players bought in before he got here.

So all in all he's better off than most managers in this league.

But I doubt anyone is arguing that he isn't, surely?

[bannedfromHandV]

22 minutes ago, sne said:

He is however allowed to use the "resources" that has been spent on players before he got here, and sell players bought in before he got here.

So all in all he's better off than most managers in this league.

But I doubt anyone is arguing that he isn't, surely?

I don't think anyone is Sne, and it's why right now he/we are performing better than 20 of the 23 teams in the division.

 

Equally, he hasn't had it so easy that we should be in 1st place having not lost a single game, which with all due respect is what I think some people expect.

Edited January 19, 2018 by bannedfromHandV

[Demitri_C]

I think if bruce takes us up this year he has saved this club. No question my eyes.

[Fowlersrs]

11 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

I think if bruce takes us up this year he has saved this club. No question my eyes.

Quite agree, if he fails we freshen things up for next year. You cant deny he has made some good signings

[dn1982]

1 hour ago, bobzy said:

He’s spent less, on net, than Barnsley. So no. 

And also no, Terry is here because of Bruce. If Bruce wasn’t here, Terry wouldn’t be here. 

Apart from Baker we haven’t sold anyone from the 1st team who Bruce used I think. Bruce has spent more than most. Using this net figure is spurious. He’s still spent money. He’s sold club assets and reinvested it. Terry has been a success but has he done that’s much more than Baker would’ve done? Our defence last year was one of the best anyway. 

[bannedfromHandV]

13 minutes ago, dn1982 said:

Apart from Baker we haven’t sold anyone from the 1st team who Bruce used I think. Bruce has spent more than most. Using this net figure is spurious. He’s still spent money. He’s sold club assets and reinvested it. Terry has been a success but has he done that’s much more than Baker would’ve done? Our defence last year was one of the best anyway. 

Reinvested, you do know we finished the summer window up by to £11M dependent on which source of truth you follow. 

 

I don't understand the relevance of whether or not they were in the first team plans. 

[tomav84]

3 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

In terms of "hero" I was thinking more of someone who would unite the club. Lead us on to a new era. Not someone who criticises fans who consistently give him one of the highest home attendances in the league, and the best away following in the country.

If we absolutely fly from now until the end of the season I suppose yes. I'd love an enjoyable run in. I'd love some enjoyable football.

But getting us up was the minimum requirement and I think he's going to fail. Even with all the resources he's had. I'm going to grind my teeth to dust when the the form dips and he starts up his excuses again.

Whether the season ends 6th May or 26th, I hope he's shown the door soon after.

Its things like this that make people believe folks have an agenda...too many people just dont like him. criticises fans? the same fans that have at times made personal insults including his appearance and weight (he has mentioned social media, so he's seen them). so i for one have no issues with him sticking the proverbial 2 fingers up at these people after a victory that the very same people were convinced we would lose

[sheepyvillian]

3 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Right. So why are you getting so wound up over SB when you've basically enjoyed 4 months of football in the past 20 years?

Whose wound up ? I'm merely expressing my disappointment at the football under Bruce . Surely your not going to tell me it's entertaining ?

I'm happy when we win , but the football itself ,is ,in the main ,boring, and I don't see it ever getting much better, under this manager .

Now , if that winds you up , tough .

 

[bobzy]

22 minutes ago, dn1982 said:

Apart from Baker we haven’t sold anyone from the 1st team who Bruce used I think. Bruce has spent more than most. Using this net figure is spurious. He’s still spent money. He’s sold club assets and reinvested it. Terry has been a success but has he done that’s much more than Baker would’ve done? Our defence last year was one of the best anyway. 

The idea that he's had SO MUCH MORE money than other Championship clubs is ludicrous - even if you want to use pure money spent rather than a net figure.  Plenty of sides (Middlesbrough, Wolves, Hull, Norwich, Birmingham, Reading, Derby) have spent more/similar amounts to Steve Bruce.  Further, he's had to spend to improve our squad, not just take advantage of POTS OF CASH by adding a couple of players.

In our last game, we started with Johnstone (Bruce signing), El Mohamady (Bruce signing), Chester, Terry (Bruce signing), Hutton, Whelan (Bruce signing), Snodgrass (Bruce signing), Grealish, Hourihane (Bruce signing), Adomah and Hogan (Bruce signing).  The subs we used were Bjarnason (Bruce signing), Taylor (Bruce signing) and Davis.  Those left on the bench were Bunn, Elphick, Lansbury (Bruce signing) and Onomah (Bruce signing).

Out of 18 players, that's 11 signed by Bruce - approx £2m/player.

To suggest he's got that much more to play with than our promotion rivals is just incorrect.

[bannedfromHandV]

6 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

Whose wound up ? I'm merely expressing my disappointment at the football under Bruce . Surely your not going to tell me it's entertaining ?

I'm happy when we win , but the football itself ,is ,in the main ,boring, and I don't see it ever getting much better, under this manager .

Now , if that winds you up , tough .

 

Well you seem to be quite vocal about your displeasure with him, silly me for thinking it bothers you.

I've been more entertained this season than I have for the past 7-8 years so yes, on that basis I will tell you I find it entertaining (in comparison to the shit we've put up with since MoN left). I, and others are seeing progression in most if not all aspects of the football club at the moment, of course we could lose the next 3 games and be back at square one but then that's football and you're only as good as your last result and all that.

I just would have thought that after 20 years of not really enjoying football, that a great home record, regular wins and regular goals and trending for promotion might have appeased you, again, silly me.

[VILLAMARV]

 

28 minutes ago, dn1982 said:

Apart from Baker we haven’t sold anyone from the 1st team who Bruce used I think. Bruce has spent more than most. Using this net figure is spurious. He’s still spent money. He’s sold club assets and reinvested it. Terry has been a success but has he done that’s much more than Baker would’ve done? Our defence last year was one of the best anyway. 

First team players sold under Bruce who played under Bruce - Gollini, Westwood, Ayew, McCormack, Gestede, Amavi, Baker - not to mention squad players like Gardner, Bacuna, Tshibola and Cissokho. Veretout, Sanchez and Gil i'll give you though

[andym]

22 minutes ago, dn1982 said:

Apart from Baker we haven’t sold anyone from the 1st team who Bruce used I think. Bruce has spent more than most. Using this net figure is spurious. He’s still spent money. He’s sold club assets and reinvested it. Terry has been a success but has he done that’s much more than Baker would’ve done? Our defence last year was one of the best anyway. 

Terry is probably the best CB in the league, so yes i think he has done more than Baker would have. Don't discount his calmness on the ball at the back and his distribution, and obviously his leadership and communication.

But i agree using Bruce's net spend is slightly spurious; ultimately you need to look at the playing staff he has had available to him, and overall it simply is better than most of this league, i'd argue better than anyone but Wolves. Its definitely not any worse than the likes of Derby, Cardiff etc.

People were getting angry a couple of weeks ago because halfway through the season we looked way off achieving 2nd, and we were not even comfortably in the playoff places. There were teams with inferior squads and resources outperforming us on the pitch, and i think we were right to be critical in that situation, given the style of football was also dire. 

Now 3 excellent wins on the spin, including now actually taking the shackles off and playing some good football, and things are looking a lot healthier. We need to keep it up though, we are still 5 points behind 2nd, and there's still a nagging worry in my mind, based on Bruce's time here so far, that we could quite easily slip back into a run of 3 poor performances just as likely as 3 good ones. 

[Jareth]

1 hour ago, Demitri_C said:

No question my eyes.

Was the question "what do you consider your best feature?". 

[TRO]

7 hours ago, Dave J said:

Do you really feel with what he has had available to him that we should not already be in an automatic promotion spot ? I do-  and do you really believe we are so consistent and ready to tear up the division that we won't have another December? No nor me.

yes we are doing ok - but for me that's all - just ok 

Dave ....but don't you think that superficial argument could have been aimed at every club in premiership during Leicesters title that had spent enough to expect to win it.

Money is just a commodity that raises the odds of winning a title....there are still rakes of factors that play a part too......There are no guarantee's in this business.

[dn1982]

29 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said:

 

First team players sold under Bruce who played under Bruce - Gollini, Westwood, Ayew, McCormack, Gestede, Amavi, Baker - not to mention squad players like Gardner, Bacuna, Tshibola and Cissokho. Veretout, Sanchez and Gil i'll give you though

The only player Bruce played regular was Baker that she my point. The others he didn’t want and sold or loaned out and used the money on his players. Now It’s arguable if those he brought in were better than those he let go but that’s his decision. For me Westwood Amavi and Ayew would all get in our side and improve it. Never mind Veretout Sanchez and Gil. 

[dn1982]

31 minutes ago, andym said:

Terry is probably the best CB in the league, so yes i think he has done more than Baker would have. Don't discount his calmness on the ball at the back and his distribution, and obviously his leadership and communication.

But i agree using Bruce's net spend is slightly spurious; ultimately you need to look at the playing staff he has had available to him, and overall it simply is better than most of this league, i'd argue better than anyone but Wolves. Its definitely not any worse than the likes of Derby, Cardiff etc.

People were getting angry a couple of weeks ago because halfway through the season we looked way off achieving 2nd, and we were not even comfortably in the playoff places. There were teams with inferior squads and resources outperforming us on the pitch, and i think we were right to be critical in that situation, given the style of football was also dire. 

Now 3 excellent wins on the spin, including now actually taking the shackles off and playing some good football, and things are looking a lot healthier. We need to keep it up though, we are still 5 points behind 2nd, and there's still a nagging worry in my mind, based on Bruce's time here so far, that we could quite easily slip back into a run of 3 poor performances just as likely as 3 good ones. 

I think Terrys influence off the pitch is what makes him a lot better than Baker but as a duo Baker and Chester we’re up with the best in this league. I hope Terry will come more into his own as the pressure mounts.