Steve Bruce

[Dave J]

11 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Isn't it funny how we allow for someone like Garde to be let off the hook entirely due to the 'dire straits' the club was in at the time.

And yet, the same doesn't apply to SB who took over the team in 22nd place in the Championship.

My gosh - Garde had literally nothing to work with and did his best with two hands tied behind his back - that's why -  and your your man Bruce has had the resource most championship managers can only dream of and is still a long long way off producing a team cable of an automatic promotion 

[TRO]

20 hours ago, terrytini said:

For me parts of the debate are like trying to catch the wind ...... for example “very few decent Managers get relegated”".........what can we deduce from that ?

Maybe decent Managers get better jobs with better players ? So they are less likely to get relegated.

Or maybe we end up calling them decent Managers because they don’t get relegated - whereas in fact getting relegated is largely a crap- shoot ......despite how it’s painted there is usually one very poor side each season - rarely due to the Manager and more often poor decisions by a Club - and really, the other 2 places (Premier League) could be from any of about 10 sides.......38 games is NOT (statistically speaking) a big enough sample size to guarantee the final positions accurately and precisely place a Manager where he “ belongs”.

Bruce relegated twice in 7 seasons ? Well, yes, but you’ve got to be there to get relegated ! You could easily disregard the Managers of about 7 Clubs, who are pretty safe, then look at how many Managers have been IN the PL as long as Bruce......I’ve no figures but I’m pretty sure he’ll have been there long enough to increase his odds of getting relegated.......and that’s without factoring in that he will have been with poorish Clubs.

Its a bit like Win Ratios, net spend, etc.....they are spurious figures ( in as much as they don’t really stand up to any real analysis) and as such can be used to erroneously validate opposite arguments.

And the “ quality of football” aspect ? Well I must admit I find the football under Bruce pretty gruesome for a large part, certainly in an attacking sense ( I get more out of our defensive game usually) although it’s picked up a bit on and off this last 4 months or so. 

BUT.....I find most football to be fairly uninspiring - except when it’s us and we are winning.

For example every two years I sit down with my pad and watch every game in the World Cup/ Euros. One of the many sad things I do is mark the teams and games out of ten. Have done for years. The amount that get more than 6 is always tiny. Likewise Champions League ( which I’ve stopped bothering to watch). Yes I can see how some might enjoy the “technical” skills but I find a lot of the football simply dull.

And I’ve only seen a couple of particularly entertaining teams play us. I just think people seem to want more than is likely. I heard people say the football was crap under Gregory, DOL, MON, Mcleish, Lambert, .......yet under Sherwood And RDM where we arguably tried to play “ better” football we were lightweight and failing.

I DO think he has been very cautious ( he has said so himself), and i DO think we lack the attacking intent, movement and control that several of the sides we play against manage....but the League position ( currently) suggests we are a more effective overall package than all but a couple of those sides and as such Bruce would be entitled to say he is doing a good job.

If the points weren’t there, if it was clear we would be 10 points better off playing a different way, fair enough, but as it is I’m not sure there is much he can be knocked for.

 

 

 

Agree with that....but just to add there are currently only 3 teams that have scored more goals than us and that is , only just, so that could be improved after the next game.

so whilst we are cautious, we score goals too.....I guess that explains our effectiveness.

We have to appreciate a little more than we do.....the opposition have similar ambitions to us.

Teams we play have no intention of throwing the towel in....we need to appreciate that.

[TRO]

9 minutes ago, Dave J said:

My gosh - Garde had literally nothing to work with and did his best with two hands tied behind his back - that's why -  and your your man Bruce has had the resource most championship managers can only dream of and is still a long long way off producing a team cable of an automatic promotion 

OUR man Bruce.....He's OUR manager.

[sheepyvillian]

26 minutes ago, TRO said:

What a ridiculous comparison.....The expectation at our place far out weighs the expectation at theirs.

I'll get my coat , it's true what they say , love is blind .

[osmark86]

If we're in second place in say two weeks from now, will this endless cycle end or will he still be shit because we're not on top of wolves? 

[TRO]

1 minute ago, sheepyvillian said:

I'll get my coat , it's true what they say , love is blind .

Hate has an equal effect.

[TRO]

1 minute ago, osmark86 said:

If we're in second place in say two weeks from now, will this endless cycle end or will he still be shit because we're not on top of wolves? 

The latter for some.

[NurembergVillan]

47 minutes ago, Dave J said:

My gosh - Garde had literally nothing to work with and did his best with two hands tied behind his back - that's why -  and your your man Bruce has had the resource most championship managers can only dream of and is still a long long way off producing a team cable of an automatic promotion 

 

[Dave J]

8 hours ago, NurembergVillan said:

 

Do you really feel with what he has had available to him that we should not already be in an automatic promotion spot ? I do-  and do you really believe we are so consistent and ready to tear up the division that we won't have another December? No nor me.

yes we are doing ok - but for me that's all - just ok 

[alreadyexists]

7 minutes ago, Dave J said:

Do you really feel with what he has had available to him that we should not already be in an automatic promotion spot ? I do-  and do you really believe we are so consistent and ready to tear up the division that we won't have another December? No nor me.

yes we are doing ok - but for me that's all - just ok 

I don’t think it’s possible to be automatically promoted until the end of the season. So we could be 3rd until May for all I care.

[briny_ear]

20 minutes ago, Dave J said:

Do you really feel with what he has had available to him that we should not already be in an automatic promotion spot ? I do-  and do you really believe we are so consistent and ready to tear up the division that we won't have another December? No nor me.

yes we are doing ok - but for me that's all - just ok 

So this continuous and seemingly inexhaustible torrent of negativity, contempt and discontent about Bruce is because we think he’s doing “OK”?????

Christ knows what the thread would be like if Villa weren’t doing “OK”!!!!!

[TheStagMan]

26 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

So this continuous and seemingly inexhaustible torrent of negativity, contempt and discontent about Bruce is because we think he’s doing “OK”?????

Christ knows what the thread would be like if Villa weren’t doing “OK”!!!!!

Go back about 20 pages and you will see - or have you forgotten the time when we were far from OK?

 

OK is a massive improvement from where he/we were, so if he can move up to good, then things will calm down a lot more. 

[dn1982]

Bruce is underaceiving at present. He is 7 points from his 2pts a game target. He is 5 points off of the automatic places. Those are just facts. We’ve won 3 games on the bounce after an awful December. Fans trying to go tit for tat about him being in or out is silly. Most fans want Bruce to be successful as that means the Villa are and that’s ultimately the biggest priority. I’m not a Bruce fan for a few reasons. The football we’ve had had to watch in the main has been crap. We play not to lose too often. He has a go at the fans for justifiable fears. He’s mates in the media See no wrong in him. And there’s more but the last 2 games give me hope. Even the first 10 min against Sheffield Utd showed a bit. Our last 2 games we’ve showed attacking intent and especially v Forest a Control to our game ive not seen. Hopefully Agnew is the missing link and we can keep that improvement up. We actually looked like a team that wants to pass the ball about and knows how to do it. If Bruce keeps this up we will go up and I’d even be happy for him to have next season. Let’s hope it’s not a false dawn. 

Edited January 19, 2018 by dn1982

[Stevo985]

Slating Bruce while simultaneously praising Garde is absolute insanity.

The lengths people will go to to add to their criticism of our manager is ridiculous.

[carewjust4u]

Isn't Remi Garde managing in the MLS football league now?

[Demitri_C]

1 hour ago, Dave J said:

Do you really feel with what he has had available to him that we should not already be in an automatic promotion spot ? I do-  and do you really believe we are so consistent and ready to tear up the division that we won't have another December? No nor me.

yes we are doing ok - but for me that's all - just ok 

Wasnt the point you said we were  along way off, and NV has shown that isn't the case. 

[tomav84]

9 minutes ago, carewjust4u said:

Isn't Remi Garde managing in the MLS football league now?

yes and wasn't exactly inundated with job offers until then, which was only last year if i'm not mistaken

[NurembergVillan]

1 hour ago, Dave J said:

Do you really feel with what he has had available to him that we should not already be in an automatic promotion spot ? I do-  and do you really believe we are so consistent and ready to tear up the division that we won't have another December? No nor me.

yes we are doing ok - but for me that's all - just ok 

That's not what you said though, is it?

You said -

10 hours ago, Dave J said:

and is still a long long way off producing a team cable of an automatic promotion 

Which looking at the league table, goals for, and goals against is just absolutely untrue by any measure.

The only way someone could say we were a long, long way off producing a team capable of automatic promotion is if they were wilfully ignoring the league table, our results over the course of the season as a whole, and our form over the last few games.

I don't know why a Villa fan would choose to ignore all of that evidence in favour of their own team, though, so there must be something I'm missing.

[Stevo985]

7 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said:

 

I don't know why a Villa fan would choose to ignore all of that evidence in favour of their own team, though

I do...

[Dave J]

38 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Slating Bruce while simultaneously praising Garde is absolute insanity.

The lengths people will go to to add to their criticism of our manager is ridiculous.

Last time I checked this was a forum where all views and opinions are welcome - I suggest you Stevo and others might like to consider this ahead of posting sometimes - I don't actually believe you even understand my post re: Garde - all I said was that he was forced to work with his hands tied behind his back - whilst Bruce like it or not has had resource made available to him - but hey it's a forum.

 

30 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Wasnt the point you said we were  along way off, and NV has shown that isn't the case. 

Well actually this all boils down to opinion - you can throw stats around all day long - but are you sure in your own mind this team will not start blowing cold again - my point is that City apart we are not tearing this league up and are far from consistent in my view.

would I bet money on us finishing 2nd ? Good gosh no I would not