Steve Bruce

[Stevo985]

15 minutes ago, Dave J said:

Last time I checked this was a forum where all views and opinions are welcome - I suggest you Stevo and others might like to consider this ahead of posting sometimes - I don't actually believe you even understand my post re: Garde - all I said was that he was forced to work with his hands tied behind his back - whilst Bruce like it or not has had resource made available to him - but hey it's a forum.

Mine was a general comment. Aimed at nobody in particular. 

Edited January 19, 2018 by Stevo985

[Rugeley Villa]

I think some people forget how bad a state we were in. Just because we spent a load of money trying to buy ourselves back up, does not mean it works out. We wasted some big money on players who didn't give a ****, like the players we had when we got relegated, but how was Bruce or us fans to know that it weren't going to work out. Last season was shite, but we always knew it was going to be a tough ask to go up straight away. This season is much better, but still not convincing. He has been on thin ice a couple of times, but he keeps fighting off the doubters. It's not pretty, but we have installed a certain degree of what you would call a winning mentality. 

[bannedfromHandV]

15 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

Sherwood's first season,  at times, produced some decent stuff ,you would have to go back to the days ofBL and BFR  ,to when the juices were really flowing .

Right. So why are you getting so wound up over SB when you've basically enjoyed 4 months of football in the past 20 years?

[bannedfromHandV]

11 hours ago, Dave J said:

My gosh - Garde had literally nothing to work with and did his best with two hands tied behind his back - that's why -  and your your man Bruce has had the resource most championship managers can only dream of and is still a long long way off producing a team cable of an automatic promotion 

My man Bruce?

Yet again you devalue any point you try to make with your incessant hatred of the man.

If you think Bruce has had it easy then you and I literally have nothing further to discuss.

[villa89]

10 hours ago, NurembergVillan said:

 

I'm not a FistFace fan by any means I have been hugely critical of him and his "non" style of play. However you have to say that we are right in the race for 2nd and if we sign Ulloa (as rumoured) then we really do have a big chance to get automatic promotion.  The remainder of this season is make or break for Bruce. He'll either prove people like me wrong or he will fail but still have done enough to keep us in the playoffs. 

[Dave J]

14 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

My man Bruce?

Yet again you devalue any point you try to make with your incessant hatred of the man.

If you think Bruce has had it easy then you and I literally have nothing further to discuss.

Wow - hatred over football? I'm afraid that will never be on my agenda my friend- I don't do hate.

if you do not wish to discuss further with me then I will totally respect this.

But for the record do I think  Bruce has had it easy ? No I don't actually - but neither do I think any Villa manager since MON has had it easy - conversely nor do I think he is doing anymore than ok and is only at the lower end of the target area of my expectations given the resource made available to him and I also have concerns  if he will sustain our current position- but hey it's only my opinion 

[Tomaszk]

16 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

If you think Bruce has had it easy then you and I literally have nothing further to discuss.

Do you think he's had it hard compared to other managers in the league? I don't.

Having the funds to sign Terry, Whelan, Taylor, Hogan. Top quality on huge wages.

There was a chance to be a hero here. We were ready made with a loaded chairman and good fanbase. But the football produced has been horrible and he's cried about people having a go at him when he's added some truly woeful spells of form to that putrid play.

I posted last season about the need for a decent coach and it looks like Agnew has helped us so far. What the hell have we being doing in training the last 18 months? What has Bruce been presiding over? It's a poor showing to leave us exposed if his whole plan revolved around hoping to eventually get this one man in. Something to do with gardening leave wasn't it? Good job Karanka finally found a job then!

[terrytini]

19 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

Do you think he's had it hard compared to other managers in the league? I don't.

Having the funds to sign Terry, Whelan, Taylor, Hogan. Top quality on huge wages.

There was a chance to be a hero here. 

IS ? Surely ?

If he gets us up he will be a hero to me ! All the rest will be chip paper.

( or whatever the inter web version of chip paper is .......microchip paper ?)

Edited January 19, 2018 by terrytini
Thought of name for chip paper

[Tomaszk]

6 minutes ago, terrytini said:

IS ? Surely ?

If he gets us up he will be a hero to me ! All the rest will be chip paper.

( or whatever the inter web version of chip paper is .......microchip paper ?)

In terms of "hero" I was thinking more of someone who would unite the club. Lead us on to a new era. Not someone who criticises fans who consistently give him one of the highest home attendances in the league, and the best away following in the country.

If we absolutely fly from now until the end of the season I suppose yes. I'd love an enjoyable run in. I'd love some enjoyable football.

But getting us up was the minimum requirement and I think he's going to fail. Even with all the resources he's had. I'm going to grind my teeth to dust when the the form dips and he starts up his excuses again.

Whether the season ends 6th May or 26th, I hope he's shown the door soon after.

[Dave J]

1 hour ago, NurembergVillan said:

That's not what you said though, is it?

You said -

Which looking at the league table, goals for, and goals against is just absolutely untrue by any measure.

The only way someone could say we were a long, long way off producing a team capable of automatic promotion is if they were wilfully ignoring the league table, our results over the course of the season as a whole, and our form over the last few games.

I don't know why a Villa fan would choose to ignore all of that evidence in favour of their own team, though, so there must be something I'm missing.

Your missing nothing other than football being a game of opinions along with many variables- December is not so far away - when we were looking distinctly average and calls for his head - yes we are clearly better now - but we are not exactly tearing it up are we ? City apart- I will wait for further evidence of consistency that shows  we have turned from a team that blows hot & cold into a team that plays with passion , cohesion and is capable of going on an unbeaten period of games over a longer period of time -this would then make me believe that we are capable of a sustained attack on an automatic promotion spot.

[bannedfromHandV]

35 minutes ago, Dave J said:

Wow - hatred over football? I'm afraid that will never be on my agenda my friend- I don't do hate.

if you do not wish to discuss further with me then I will totally respect this.

But for the record do I think  Bruce has had it easy ? No I don't actually - but neither do I think any Villa manager since MON has had it easy - conversely nor do I think he is doing anymore than ok and is only at the lower end of the target area of my expectations given the resource made available to him and I also have concerns  if he will sustain our current position- but hey it's only my opinion 

Dave, I find it difficult to believe that you do not have an anti-Bruce agenda sorry, your posts are dominated by it, generally speaking. Even in the McCormack thread recently you intimated that his difficulties were SB's fault and that he should be given a chance in the team.

I agree, no Villa Manager has had it easy in the past 7/8 years and at times they've all faced differing challenges with differing degrees of problems in the board room, on the pitch, within the fan base and amongst staff. I personally would say he's doing pretty well, so better than okay but not quite enough to say he's doing 'good'. You mention resources, and yes, if compared to say, Barnsley, then yes we're in a privileged position (but then that's why we're doing significantly better than Barnsley). We are not in that much of a better position in comparison with say Wolves and Derby, both relatively large clubs (not on our level in terms of history, fan base but still attractive outside of the PL) with backing and decent Managers. 

We spent very little in the summer, average out what SB has actually spent in the 2 transfer windows he's been here (soon to be 3 windows) and I think you'd surprise yourself at how low it is. People are still holding SB to account for what was spent prior to his arrival which is just plain wrong IMO.

[bannedfromHandV]

41 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

Do you think he's had it hard compared to other managers in the league? I don't.

Having the funds to sign Terry, Whelan, Taylor, Hogan. Top quality on huge wages.

There was a chance to be a hero here. We were ready made with a loaded chairman and good fanbase. But the football produced has been horrible and he's cried about people having a go at him when he's added some truly woeful spells of form to that putrid play.

I posted last season about the need for a decent coach and it looks like Agnew has helped us so far. What the hell have we being doing in training the last 18 months? What has Bruce been presiding over? It's a poor showing to leave us exposed if his whole plan revolved around hoping to eventually get this one man in. Something to do with gardening leave wasn't it? Good job Karanka finally found a job then!

There's one top quality player in those 4, and aside from that individual I'd wager that the other 3 are not on 'huge wages' (in relative terms).

"There was a chance to be a hero here"- you do know it's January and we're in 4th place right? I think it's fair to assume there's still scope for him to be a hero here.

We were ready made with a loaded chairman, granted, however we then set ourselves back severely by hiring the wrong man (RDM) and letting him bring in a number of people who, in hindsight, should never have come anywhere near VP, so by the time SB came in, things were probably even worse than when we went down. The football has at times been shit, but then I think back over the 30 odd years I've been following Villa and I could pull out at least 10 shit performances from every single season.

People see the PL as the promised land, I've been just as bored watching us in the PL as I have at times recently, there's this myth that we used to be a really great team to watch, as I extracted from Sheepyvillain (after asking twice), he's basically enjoyed 4 months out of the last 20 years, so why all of a sudden do people think we're going to become some diluted form of Barcelona?

 

[NurembergVillan]

7 minutes ago, Dave J said:

a team that plays with passion , cohesion and is capable of going on an unbeaten period of games over a longer period of time -this would then make me believe that we are capable of a sustained attack on an automatic promotion spot.

We've lost four league games since 15th August.  Even during "Dodgy December" we only lost two.  The Sheffield United game felt like a defeat because we were 2-0 up, and I think if Jedinak hadn't turned into Bambi on Ice for an hour we would've beaten them comfortably and been in an even stronger position.

Don't get me wrong I've said before that I'd like to see a more stylish brand of football, but in terms of cohesion - we have one of the best defensive records in the league.  In terms of passion I'd agree that there have been times - like away at Brentford recently - that I've been shocked by how the players appeared.  But since then (when they apparently got the bollocking of their lives) I think the passion has been clearly visible.

After that sticky patch it seems like the players are starting to really believe we can get promoted.  I think it's time the fans did too.

We're not going to win every game between now and the end of the season, but it'd definitely help if the atmosphere around the club was one of looking for positives rather than trying to poke holes at multiple angles regardless of success and failure.

[striker]

I didn’t want Bruce. Thought he would be yet another poor appointment for the Villa. I’ve flipped in and out of wanting him shot for poor team selections, poor tactical decisions and most of all retaliatory actions in the media against the fans who were rightly voicing  concerns to praising him for how he has done in the transfer market and getting it right in certain games.

Inafect it’s been very up and down with him and at times turbulent. I think it’s that inconsistency that is splitting the fan base. I have tried to allow him some leeway in that he became manager of a club which was literally on its knees and full of players who really didn’t give a shit and indeed one which suffered badly from a losers mentality and inferiority complex concerning the top clubs in the Premiership and now in the Championship. Most of those players are now gone.

I think it’s now fair to admit that soft mentality is being replaced by resilience and we’re starting to see that on the pitch. It’s that resilience which is knitting the team together and it’s a team that’s starting to gel, starting to believe in itself.

You have to give Bruce credit for that. You also have to give him credit for the appointment of the new coach which has seen an upturn in results and dare I say it, performances. It still isn’t perfect. I like many others would like to see even better football which the players are undoubtedly capable of but you have to remember the team you are seeing now in striking distance of the automatic promotional places is Steve Bruce’s team playing the way he wants them to play and he is getting more consistent results with it now.

Am I now a Bruce fan and more convinced that he has been the right appointment? No because I like many others are waiting for the wheels to come off again but, what if they don’t?

[bannedfromHandV]

21 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

In terms of "hero" I was thinking more of someone who would unite the club. Lead us on to a new era. Not someone who criticises fans who consistently give him one of the highest home attendances in the league, and the best away following in the country.

If we absolutely fly from now until the end of the season I suppose yes. I'd love an enjoyable run in. I'd love some enjoyable football.

But getting us up was the minimum requirement and I think he's going to fail. Even with all the resources he's had. I'm going to grind my teeth to dust when the the form dips and he starts up his excuses again.

Whether the season ends 6th May or 26th, I hope he's shown the door soon after.

Cmon man, do you not think we're a more united club/team now? I've seen more team spirit under SB in the past few weeks than I'd seen in the previous 5 years.

Okay sure, amongst the fans we're still a little divided but all that really matters is the team and for me, there's a good spirit there and it's showing in the results.

 

You talk as though you've seen the future, "he's going to fail", "when the form dips" - why not try an open mind, at this stage we have as much chance of getting promoted as not, it's in the balance, optimism, try it man, trust me it's far more fun.

[Tomaszk]

14 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Cmon man, do you not think we're a more united club/team now? I've seen more team spirit under SB in the past few weeks than I'd seen in the previous 5 years.

Okay sure, amongst the fans we're still a little divided but all that really matters is the team and for me, there's a good spirit there and it's showing in the results.

You talk as though you've seen the future, "he's going to fail", "when the form dips" - why not try an open mind, at this stage we have as much chance of getting promoted as not, it's in the balance, optimism, try it man, trust me it's far more fun.

He's divided himself from the fans, it'll take a while and football a hell of a lot better than what he's offered to get me back on side.

If we get promoted, and he stays. He'll be exactly the same. "I've had no money, I'm great, I got the club promoted with no money, I've only been here 3 months, we're only Aston Villa how can we be expected to not lose 3-0 at home to Brighton".

Your great optimism is why we deserve a hero. Not Steve Bruce.

Agnew can stay.

[Jareth]

Bruce will be a legend if he gets us promoted. (Oh my what have I gone and said!)

[bobzy]

4 hours ago, Dave J said:

Do you really feel with what he has had available to him that we should not already be in an automatic promotion spot ? I do-  and do you really believe we are so consistent and ready to tear up the division that we won't have another December? No nor me.

yes we are doing ok - but for me that's all - just ok 

He’s had -£11m in fees available to him. 

 

SO MUCH MONIES. 

[Dave J]

17 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Dave, I find it difficult to believe that you do not have an anti-Bruce agenda sorry, your posts are dominated by it, generally speaking. Even in the McCormack thread recently you intimated that his difficulties were SB's fault and that he should be given a chance in the team.

I agree, no Villa Manager has had it easy in the past 7/8 years and at times they've all faced differing challenges with differing degrees of problems in the board room, on the pitch, within the fan base and amongst staff. I personally would say he's doing pretty well, so better than okay but not quite enough to say he's doing 'good'. You mention resources, and yes, if compared to say, Barnsley, then yes we're in a privileged position (but then that's why we're doing significantly better than Barnsley). We are not in that much of a better position in comparison with say Wolves and Derby, both relatively large clubs (not on our level in terms of history, fan base but still attractive outside of the PL) with backing and decent Managers. 

We spent very little in the summer, average out what SB has actually spent in the 2 transfer windows he's been here (soon to be 3 windows) and I think you'd surprise yourself at how low it is. People are still holding SB to account for what was spent prior to his arrival which is just plain wrong IMO.

I have no agenda against Bruce other than not rating him as a football manager and certainly not to manage us to where we would all like us to be

If this classes as an agenda then maybe I am guilty  ?

As for McCormack I genuinely don't think Bruce has anything to do with any issues that he may or may not have - do I think we could still use Ross ? Absolutely I do - I guess my point against Bruce is that he held out an olive branch to a striker that never scores and whose previous behaviour in my humble opinion left a lot to be desired and yet we have a striker with a proven track record plying his trade on the other side of the world.

As for Bruce's regardless of how it's dressed up he has still had a good resource available to him compared to other teams - you have to think Terry is not here on Buttons is he? So wages are also a factor imo 

[bobzy]

2 minutes ago, Dave J said:

As for Bruce's regardless of how it's dressed up he has still had a good resource available to him compared to other teams - you have to think Terry is not here on Buttons is he? So wages are also a factor imo 

He really hasn’t. Our squad is strong, so it’s not like he’s got nothing to work with, but he hasn’t had vast amounts of resources to work with - that’s just a lie. 

I like that Terry’s wages keep getting brought up, though.

(also, people forget that he is here because of Steve Bruce - not the dolla)