Steve Bruce

[Richard]

1 hour ago, Grasshopper said:

 

When you have to select Hutton, Westwood, Gardner, Gaby or Gestede to make up the 11. Unless everything goes according to plan and the opposition doesn't have the cuth to suss you out, we can get away with it

He doesn't have to select all those players and certainly not all at once. He chooses to

[Grasshopper]

49 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

You say those players are shit but most would get in most championship sides. They are decent enough at this level but just not performing. Espically gestede. He has been a massive disappointment for me this season. Regardless what division we are in come summer definitely think we should sell him

This is not an attack on your opinion.

The past and how players use to perform/be affective is almost irrelevant.

Gestede, Westwood, Gaby & Hutton are all on their way down and wont be getting better anytime soon.

We have a number of players worthy of Top 6 Ch - Chester, Baker, Amavi, Grealish, Ayew, Adomah and Kodjia - Some at mid table - Gollini (Capacity to improve) Jedi (fading slowly) Elphick and McCormack (both fading)

Then we have the shit that brings the whole unit down to mid table level. These are players obviously who are performing at a Lower end Ch level (maybe even L1 standard) 

They are - Hutton, Cissokho (not getting game time atm) Westwood, Gardner, Gestede & Gaby.

If we want to compete at top 6 level we cannot afford to carry too many sub-standarders.

having 1 is workable, 2 is pushing it 3 or more means if it starts to go pearshaped there is no way to save it because the overload on the OK & better players is too much

[Grasshopper]

4 minutes ago, Richard said:

He doesn't have to select all those players and certainly not all at once. He chooses to

Yes

but replace them with who?

Hutton - only Bacuna

Westwood - ?

Gardner - ?

The Gaby & Gestede thing I understand as it can work when Defence & Mudfield is working well and the opposition isnt too smart.

But having AH AW GG & 1 of RG or GA is just to close to coming off the rails for my liking

[Grasshopper]

P.S

I reall would consider a back 3 of

Elphick Chester & Baker

Push Bacuna & Amivi on as WB's

Jedi & 1 of AW GG in MF (effectively making up a MF 4)

Adomah Grealish/Ayew as the supplyline/support for Kodjia

= less shit in the line up and formation that can go

5-4-1 on the defence

3-2-3/4-2/1

on the front foot

Edited December 4, 2016 by Grasshopper

[andym]

16 hours ago, TRO said:

You can talk about team selection being wrong after any defeat....it can be a cop out.

We were out muscled out fought and closed down....we wasn't allowed to forge many attacks and when we did we looked uncomfortable with the physicality of the opposition.

I think you could have picked any formation from our squad and the result would have been the same.

also you can't legislate for individual poor decision making....they rattled us physically and we wasn't able to settle and when we did have chances we lacked composure mainly due to the aforementioned.

Steve is only just here.....he has much to do, but he will do it.

Ps However I think our lads did work hard

I disagree TRO, i thought for the most part we were the team pressing, closing down and winning the physical battles. We turned over possession around 30 yards from Leeds goal many times, but we didn't take advantage.

And that is one of the main problems we have at the moment. We don't make the most of our dominant periods, which always leaves us open to the sucker punch.

Our passing is atrocious, particularly in the final third, and we don't score enough goals for the attacking players we have in the squad. Other teams seem to be scoring 3,4 5 goals in a game, i think we have score 3 in a game twice. 21 goals in 19 games is not that poor, but given the money we spent in the summer, i expected more to be honest.

I think midfield is the main problem. Jedinak gets more of a pass from me, as his role is clearly to sit back and break up play, and he's doing it very well at the moment. But that means Gardner and Westwood have to be providing more attacking threat on a regular basis, not just a good pass or shot once every few games (Jedinak has more assists than these two). Too many times our forwards get the ball, and have two or three opposition players on them with no support inside, although as markavfc40 notes, ayew, kodjia and adomah are also guilty of putting there head down and running down dead ends.

I suspect Bruce will want at least 1 good quality centre mid in January.

 

[Dodgyknees]

A bad day. We've got to pick ourselves up for the next one. No point getting all negative.

[PieFacE]

I'd like to see Tish get more game time.  Thought he was by far our best player under RDM.  It's odd how he's barely played since.  

[BigAl]

We have become a functional team under Bruce we have improved a lot defensively the individual errors bar yesterday have stopped ,our biggest problem is we aren't taking our chances we they arrive we had enough yesterday I a cagey game to get something out of it and the same against Brighton we are certainly 1 of the better sides in the division and when we click upfront you can see us going from strength to strength Bruce is new to the job and hopefully he learned something about his players yesterday and you often learn more in defeat than victory .

[AntrimBlack]

34 minutes ago, PieFacE said:

I'd like to see Tish get more game time.  Thought he was by far our best player under RDM.  It's odd how he's barely played since.  

Injured, possibly?

[Demitri_C]

4 hours ago, Grasshopper said:

This is not an attack on your opinion.

The past and how players use to perform/be affective is almost irrelevant.

Gestede, Westwood, Gaby & Hutton are all on their way down and wont be getting better anytime soon.

We have a number of players worthy of Top 6 Ch - Chester, Baker, Amavi, Grealish, Ayew, Adomah and Kodjia - Some at mid table - Gollini (Capacity to improve) Jedi (fading slowly) Elphick and McCormack (both fading)

Then we have the shit that brings the whole unit down to mid table level. These are players obviously who are performing at a Lower end Ch level (maybe even L1 standard) 

They are - Hutton, Cissokho (not getting game time atm) Westwood, Gardner, Gestede & Gaby.

If we want to compete at top 6 level we cannot afford to carry too many sub-standarders.

having 1 is workable, 2 is pushing it 3 or more means if it starts to go pearshaped there is no way to save it because the overload on the OK & better players is too much

I certainly agree about the players you have highlighted as the weak links but at this level I certainly feel they are good enough to rely on for this season. It's surprisingly that Westwood continues to play ahead of tishbola. Gabby is gabby. Hutton wouldn't be playing if de laet didn't pick up that unfortunate injury. 

Gardner has been better recently so I won't slate him too much. Cissokho is average back up. Gestede has been garbage most if the season. Think we should just cut all ties with him come the summer or unless hull offer us a swap for Hernandez 

[sidcow]

3 hours ago, DK82 said:

We've got to pick ourselves up for the next one.

Go again? 

[TRO]

4 hours ago, andym said:

I disagree TRO, i thought for the most part we were the team pressing, closing down and winning the physical battles. We turned over possession around 30 yards from Leeds goal many times, but we didn't take advantage.

And that is one of the main problems we have at the moment. We don't make the most of our dominant periods, which always leaves us open to the sucker punch.

Our passing is atrocious, particularly in the final third, and we don't score enough goals for the attacking players we have in the squad. Other teams seem to be scoring 3,4 5 goals in a game, i think we have score 3 in a game twice. 21 goals in 19 games is not that poor, but given the money we spent in the summer, i expected more to be honest.

I think midfield is the main problem. Jedinak gets more of a pass from me, as his role is clearly to sit back and break up play, and he's doing it very well at the moment. But that means Gardner and Westwood have to be providing more attacking threat on a regular basis, not just a good pass or shot once every few games (Jedinak has more assists than these two). Too many times our forwards get the ball, and have two or three opposition players on them with no support inside, although as markavfc40 notes, ayew, kodjia and adomah are also guilty of putting there head down and running down dead ends.

I suspect Bruce will want at least 1 good quality centre mid in January.

 

Andy, sorry I thought they were much more powerful.for sure we had the better opportunities, but our strikers don't bully like costa does, so they get easily out muscled, (as decent as they are )which makes it look like we are going down blind alleys, I agree they are cut loose by a midfield that fails to support them.....you see today in the fight back for Everton how Barry & Gana are constantly playing probing balls for the fight back.

I would be happy to sit through that game with anyone, Leeds did close us down far more than we did to them....hence the run for sako for the second goal.....If we was pressing that would not have happened

Ps I understand from a reliable source that midfield will be looked at in Jan.

[TRO]

4 hours ago, DK82 said:

A bad day. We've got to pick ourselves up for the next one. No point getting all negative.

its not a case of being negative, it's a case of a bunch of fans discussing what they think went wrong on the back of such a good run.

I think Leeds are a good side....particularly aggressive and assertive in the challenge, they will be there or there about for me....look better than Newcastle.

[Dodgyknees]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

its not a case of being negative, it's a case of a bunch of fans discussing what they think went wrong on the back of such a good run.

I think Leeds are a good side....particularly aggressive and assertive in the challenge, they will be there or there about for me....look better than Newcastle.

Referring to myself really, as I have - in the past - been negative.

Edit because of bloody autocorrect.

Edited December 4, 2016 by DK82

[VillanousOne]

I am happy with how Bruce has changed things around and how he has us playing now, but I do think there is a ceiling to this. We have been much more solid and resilient, Amavi, Chester, Baker and to a slightly lesser extent Jed and Adomah have thrived under Bruce. Gardener had a brief spell also as did Bacuna and Gollini has been more reliable despite yesterday.

But ultimately I kind of agree, Hutton, Gabby, Westwood, Gestede and Gardener are players that will keep us mid table they won't get us into a play off place.

I think it will take a while for Bruce and Calderwood to get us properly dominating games and really imposing their style/will on the team. Either they need to learn how to utilise Ayew, McCormack and Tish properly and get the best out of Grealish (which already is showing promise on that front). Or bring in re-enforcements.

I do however feel that teams are managing to compete with us and even beat us with players who are allegedly far worse than the squad we are meant to possess, even if it's just the fact they are younger/home/grown or never played at Prem level.

90% of our current matchday squad have played at prem level, but often it doesn't show, and yes you can argue that the Championship is a higher level than most would think, but i've not see a single team play us who i've thought 'wow they are class.' Most losses suffered have been of our own making.

[striker]

I like Bruce as manager, I really do but this conservative approach to games won't allow the Villa to dominate this league in the way that Villa should and it does allow teams to gain in confidence when they play against Villa. Would Leeds have had Grealish and Ayew on the bench and Kodjia playing out wide for instance?

Still don't think performance wise that Bruce is getting the best out of what he has at his disposal and that may also have been said of previous managers here.

[VillaChris]

5 hours ago, TRO said:

its not a case of being negative, it's a case of a bunch of fans discussing what they think went wrong on the back of such a good run.

I think Leeds are a good side....particularly aggressive and assertive in the challenge, they will be there or there about for me....look better than Newcastle.

Newcastle comfortably beat them two weeks back.

Leeds will still do well to make the top 6 imo, I bracket them with SHA, will do well for 2/3 of the season and then fall away right at the end.

I reckon it will be Derby, Sheff Weds, Us and one surprise team in the play offs this season.

[LondonLax]

I wasn't expecting us to go undefeated for the whole season under Bruce and losing away to a promotion rival after a 7 game run is probably par for the course for a promotion push.

We are still on track for our goals in my opinion. 

[TrentVilla]

 

The single biggest issue yet again was that we weren't clinical and didn't take our chances.

[Demitri_C]

7 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

 

The single biggest issue yet again was that we weren't clinical and didn't take our chances.

To be honest i dont think we created much at all. I think it was generally a very poor performance. I dont think one attacking player had a good game. adomah was probabaly the best out of a bad bunch