Mitchell Clark

[daggy_333]

37 minutes ago, midian said:

Not ready for the 1st team at Villa apparently so wont be recalled and contract ends this season and may be gone!Gutting if true not been given a real chance.

Where have you seen/heard that?

[midian]

28 minutes ago, daggy_333 said:

Where have you seen/heard that?

Few friends who have alot to do with Port Vale have told me shame really everytime I have seen him play for Vale he has looked a cut above League 2 players.

[The Fun Factory]

Considering how long we have supported players like Gary Gardner well into their late 20s it seems strange that we at least can't offer a couple of years extension to Clark. 

[John]

1 hour ago, midian said:

Not ready for the 1st team at Villa apparently so wont be recalled and contract ends this season and may be gone!Gutting if true not been given a real chance.

I thought it had earlier seemed likely that he would be called back so that the new management team could have a look at him, if not use him in the squad. It would therefore be quite a surprise if that doesn't happen and his contract is left to run down with him remaining out on loan. Any source available?

Just read your explanation above. 

Edited December 31, 2018 by John

[DaveAV1]

8 hours ago, The Fun Factory said:

Considering how long we have supported players like Gary Gardner well into their late 20s it seems strange that we at least can't offer a couple of years extension to Clark. 

Perhaps that’s just it. We’ve supported good but not quite good enough players for years. Maybe we see him in that category? After all it’s a huge step up from doing well at Port Vale to chasing promotion with The Villa. 

[AvfcRigo82]

1 hour ago, DaveAV1 said:

Perhaps that’s just it. We’ve supported good but not quite good enough players for years. Maybe we see him in that category? After all it’s a huge step up from doing well at Port Vale to chasing promotion with The Villa. 

Exactly this Dave.

We are learning from our past mistakes it would appear.

Keeping 'said' player at Villa into his 20's in a hope he might just turn good while he is loaned out for years on end.

I am sorry, but I don't actually rate our academy that much either.

When was the last time we actually produced a 'Superstar' that went on to be anything special or be worth anything decent.

I think our academy has been overhyped for years.

We need a model like Spurs or Southampton etc. imo.

 

[VillaAlex]

1 hour ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Exactly this Dave.

We are learning from our past mistakes it would appear.

Keeping 'said' player at Villa into his 20's in a hope he might just turn good while he is loaned out for years on end.

I am sorry, but I don't actually rate our academy that much either.

When was the last time we actually produced a 'Superstar' that went on to be anything special or be worth anything decent.

I think our academy has been overhyped for years.

We need a model like Spurs or Southampton etc. imo.

 

I've said it in another thread but how many academy players have left us and gone onto better things and could get into our team right now?

Hogg, Albrighton (we saw more glimpses than any graduate I think), Cahill, Bannan (debatable), Stevens (we signed him but he was young), Johnson, Robinson (valued at £10m).

None are/were 'superstars', although Cahill achieved so much when he left us, and I'd also say Albrighton is one of the most underrated players in England. 

There are also a few players I'd say had serious talent but things haven't happened for them, and others who are solid Championship players but we chose to sell them. (Baker, Clark, Lichaj, Weimann). 

No club brings through several superstars, we hoped ours would be Grealish, he hasn't broken through as much as we'd hoped years ago but he still can do. Which leads me to the point that the academy itself isn't the problem.

It is the step between the academy/reserve to first team football which has been criminally mismanaged over the past 10-15 years. We've always had talented players but left them to disappear in the reserve leagues. That is not the coaches fault at that level, our first team management should have been giving these players better chances, more integration and even better loan opportunities.

But instead we have chosen to buy continual rubbish and not utilise the players we have. A lot of successful teams now have a good core of academy players they have introduced and we should be looking to do that going forward.

I hope we don't make the same mistakes and give time to the likes of Clark and O'Hare (who in my opinion again we are mismanaging). I think these two in particular can have a really bright future. 

 

 

[DaveAV1]

1 hour ago, VillaAlex said:

I've said it in another thread but how many academy players have left us and gone onto better things and could get into our team right now?

Hogg, Albrighton (we saw more glimpses than any graduate I think), Cahill, Bannan (debatable), Stevens (we signed him but he was young), Johnson, Robinson (valued at £10m).

None are/were 'superstars', although Cahill achieved so much when he left us, and I'd also say Albrighton is one of the most underrated players in England. 

There are also a few players I'd say had serious talent but things haven't happened for them, and others who are solid Championship players but we chose to sell them. (Baker, Clark, Lichaj, Weimann). 

No club brings through several superstars, we hoped ours would be Grealish, he hasn't broken through as much as we'd hoped years ago but he still can do. Which leads me to the point that the academy itself isn't the problem.

It is the step between the academy/reserve to first team football which has been criminally mismanaged over the past 10-15 years. We've always had talented players but left them to disappear in the reserve leagues. That is not the coaches fault at that level, our first team management should have been giving these players better chances, more integration and even better loan opportunities.

But instead we have chosen to buy continual rubbish and not utilise the players we have. A lot of successful teams now have a good core of academy players they have introduced and we should be looking to do that going forward.

I hope we don't make the same mistakes and give time to the likes of Clark and O'Hare (who in my opinion again we are mismanaging). I think these two in particular can have a really bright future. 

 

 

I think the academy is a product and symptomatic of our general malaise over the years. It’s not terrible, but could be so much better.

Also we haven’t had a cohesive all encompassing strategy from the young kids right up to the first team. Cahill actually heaped praise on the academy recently, but he was sold by MON just as he career was getting going. I believe a proper strategy to produce players and teams, at all points of development, who work to the same philosophy,  is now what the aim is. That is obviously going to take time, but it’s a sustainable and hopefully rewarding way forwards. 

[AntrimBlack]

15 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

I think the academy is a product and symptomatic of our general malaise over the years. It’s not terrible, but could be so much better.

Also we haven’t had a cohesive all encompassing strategy from the young kids right up to the first team. Cahill actually heaped praise on the academy recently, but he was sold by MON just as he career was getting going. I believe a proper strategy to produce players and teams, at all points of development, who work to the same philosophy,  is now what the aim is. That is obviously going to take time, but it’s a sustainable and hopefully rewarding way forwards. 

The loan system is so much more beneficial for young players than playing for the under 23's.

[The Fun Factory]

I think we have a above average academy system but are not very good in bringing them on. PNE yesterday had two of our former players who never got a chance. Hogg, Albrighton, Davis,  and of course Cahill are all premier league players. In reality outside of a few famous teams like Ajax or Bilbao it is rear for more than about 3-4 first teamers to come through to the first team to be a  regular.

[abdulaziz1]

Talking about Hogg, how many times did he play with us? I don’t remember many actually. Though when he and couple of young players as Bannan (we had an injury crises) played very good against the league winners that season Man Utd. I think there is a link missing between managers having the courage to play those player, and not having a proper plans to integrate them in the first team.

No one was saying that Bree should start couple of weeks ago, yet now after couple of solid performances at cb people want to see him as a rb. Which should be said about every player who have potential. 

If we will play Clark then fair enough lets get him, if not the atleast sign a new contract and leave him out there. But thats if we’re going to sign a new lb. if not the I would definitely have him back.

Why do we accept mistakes from the so-called experienced players, while we expect from youngsters not to mistake?

For me, that was one of the biggest mistakes we’ve done, we had a good academy but could benefit our team nor the players development themselves.

[Guest av1]

Being out of contract in the summer surely it would be prudent to recall him so Smith can have a look at him for a few months?

If he isn't recalled this month then I'd be pretty confident that the decision to release him has already been made. 

[KMitch]

4 hours ago, AntrimBlack said:

The loan system is so much more beneficial for young players than playing for the under 23's.

Didn't Redknapp do away with his entire Spuds U23 team and send out all the players on loan when he was their manager?  Might be worth us doing the same thing, if we can pull it off.

On the other hand, Brentford decided to shut down their academy, as it wasn't cost effective and all of their most promising prospects ended up signing for other clubs youth teams before they hit 16.  They now use their reserve team as a 2nd first team, for players to put themselves in contention for 1st team spots when players are sold on.  Even with selling on ~50% of the players that graduate from our academy for peanuts, the program might end up still turning a profit for Villa, so this might not be a viable strategy for us.  

I do agree that we have let a lot of promising players go who our managers have deemed not good enough for us.  Cahill, Albrighton, and Baker still leave me a bit frustrated.  They all got a lot of first team exposure, weren't favored by our managers at the time, and replaced them all with shittier players.  On top of that, there are several players we let go that are now plying their trade in Championship who would slot into our squad, but we never even let a look in the first team.  Hopefully Suso & Smith will sort this out over the next few years.

[srsmithusa]

1 hour ago, abdulaziz1 said:

Talking about Hogg, how many times did he play with us? I don’t remember many actually. Though when he and couple of young players as Bannan (we had an injury crises) played very good against the league winners that season Man Utd. I think there is a link missing between managers having the courage to play those player, and not having a proper plans to integrate them in the first team.

No one was saying that Bree should start couple of weeks ago, yet now after couple of solid performances at cb people want to see him as a rb. Which should be said about every player who have potential. 

If we will play Clark then fair enough lets get him, if not the atleast sign a new contract and leave him out there. But thats if we’re going to sign a new lb. if not the I would definitely have him back.

Why do we accept mistakes from the so-called experienced players, while we expect from youngsters not to mistake?

For me, that was one of the biggest mistakes we’ve done, we had a good academy but could benefit our team nor the players development themselves.

Bolded part explains the fans. We turn on anyone that makes a costly error in a heart beat.   It does not explain th supposedly professional experienced coaches and managers we have employed.   They should know better.   When the youth only get chances when forced by injury and not because the senior is making a hash of the role, something is wrong with the management.  

[abdulaziz1]

1 hour ago, srsmithusa said:

Bolded part explains the fans. We turn on anyone that makes a costly error in a heart beat.   It does not explain th supposedly professional experienced coaches and managers we have employed.   They should know better.   When the youth only get chances when forced by injury and not because the senior is making a hash of the role, something is wrong with the management.  

But why is it that way? It’s definitely their mistake. As you remember last season, once Davis took his part he made his place. I’m not saying we should play him now as we already have Abraham and Kodjia fit. Last season we got Grabban. But I mean if we had fit senior strikers he wouldn’t have had his chance, or he was going to feature couple of minutes every now and then. Which would be harsh to judge him by.

We have a lot of average players as Hutton, Elmo, Whelan, Nyland and I’d say even Adomah recently. Yes they have their part to play but any player could replace them. JDH might replace Whelan without even noticing the difference for example.

You need to try every now and then those players to know who’s going to make it. We wouldn’t have tried Grealish if we didn’t have Sherwood that season. He only had couple of cameos when Lambert was there.

Something is definitely wrong. There are couple of places in our squad that are filled with old average players. We need to do something regarding that.

[Junxs]

13 hours ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

We need a model like Spurs or Southampton etc. imo.

 

Who have spurs produced? apart from Harry Kane?

Gareth Bale, Dele Alli and Kyle Walker are the only decent young players I can think of and they were all purchased from other clubs

Theyve been braver in trying out some youngsters, but Winks and others havent proven themselves yet. 

[sir_gary_cahill]

10 hours ago, Junxs said:

Who have spurs produced? apart from Harry Kane?

Gareth Bale, Dele Alli and Kyle Walker are the only decent young players I can think of and they were all purchased from other clubs

Theyve been braver in trying out some youngsters, but Winks and others havent proven themselves yet. 

Danny Rose? I don’t know if he can be counted they bought him from Leeds when he was about 17

[rodders0223]

Andros Townsend, Caulker, Pritchard, Livermore, Tom Carroll, Mason were all average but sold for good money. I am sure there are probably others (SEE TACTICS TIM)

Harry Winks as much as it pains me to say looks like a player too.

[sne]

Disappointed he's not been recalled.

Guess that's it for him at Villa then.

[sir_gary_cahill]

1 minute ago, sne said:

Disappointed he's not been recalled.

Guess that's it for him at Villa then.

Shame, very good talent will have a good career as will Suliman