snowychap Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 1 minute ago, sidcow said: Ah, so someone else will go in now and negotiate a deal where we have almost no redlines and all the politicians will be 100% behind this and rush it through parliament. I see now. What on earth are you going on about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post a m ole Posted January 15, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) 44 minutes ago, sidcow said: This is the problem. People voted for Brexit not having any idea what Brexit was. Some want full and total severance with Europe and had absolutely intention of any kind of half way house. Others voted out because they bought the line (which WAS regularly and repeatedly trotted out by Brexiteers) that we could leave and get a great deal which maintained most of the benefits. Neither of these factions would have voted for what the other half want and neither in isolation would have got anywhere a near a majority. Brexit was voted on as a general concept which was a mistake. It's very stupid, but also very easy to vote for something when you don't really know what it is. I know many people who regret voting out now they have realised that we can't in fact have our cake and eat it and the reality of what's on offer is hitting home. yep, it’s ‘clear’ that the Will Of The People is absolute bollocks. The 52% is divided by several totally incompatible views. Edited January 15, 2019 by a m ole 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 5 minutes ago, sidcow said: Well yes, she's tried to crack on with what the good British public voted for. If you left control with Europe she would be crucified for ignoring her remit. She was going to be crucified whatever happened. Just like she is being now. As would anybody else who had tried. That's the problem with policy based upon a fantasy. The hypothetical ideas sound great in an argument on the Today Programme or in a speech, but they fall down when your success or failure is judged against them. She's spent two years telling people Brexit was going to be one thing, and now that it's nothing like what she's been promising people unsurprisingly don't much like what she's been cooking. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackbauer24 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 26 minutes ago, a m ole said: yep, it’s ‘clear’ that the Will Of The People is absolute bollocks. The 52% is divided by several totally incompatible views. And this is the crux of the deadlock. Leavers don't know what they want. So the only solution is to have a series of votes to work out what the majority leave position is and then put it to the people vs a remain vote. Leavers then have to decide whether they want that 'leave' or to remain. Remainers are united, it's simple. It's the multifaceted leavers which are causing the deadlock. It's a different referendum then with two much clearer options. And if we were still to vote for leave then there could be no arguments people didn't know what they were voting for. But politics is always more important than common sense, practicality and the good of the nation. It's a game that those MPs play that rarely actually impacts on them. A final referendum based more on facts than dreams is the ONLY way to break the deadlock. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 I mean, if you squint at it really hard you could maybe read it this way... She's probably upset she didn't lose by more. She'd be virtually unstoppable. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Just got in and seen the result ...So much for Tory’s gonna Tory was I closest with 206 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 7 hours ago, chrisp65 said: Aim is going to miss. Must be Corbyn in the hoodie. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 6 hours ago, tonyh29 said: Just got in and seen the result ...So much for Tory’s gonna Tory was I closest with 206 ? Margin of defeat and number of votes for! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 7 hours ago, tonyh29 said: Just got in and seen the result ...So much for Tory’s gonna Tory was I closest with 206 ? Got to wonder what the margin of defeat would have been if she'd gone for it in December. No wonder she pulled it last minute as she'd have definitely lost the party vonc with that scale of defeat. The only reason she'll be allowed to go on is because the tories are terrified if comrade corbyn. Hardly a ringing endorsement from your own lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Excuse my ignorance, but what's wrong with Corbyn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skruff Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Excuse my ignorance, what was the idea behind the brexit in the first place? Less immigration? The media and politician surely has to take responsibility for this royal **** up. Is it fair to call it that? I'm curious to what will happen next, now that you've said no to the latest trade deal. The hard exit prognosis looks quite bleek to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 1 minute ago, Skruff said: Excuse my ignorance, what was the idea behind the brexit in the first place? Unicorns 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 17 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said: Excuse my ignorance, but what's wrong with Corbyn? Everything. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) I've obviously been on the opposite journey to many on here, because for me what last night killed was the idea that a second referendum would be good. Whatever we think of May's WA - I thought it was shit personally - it was the only 'positive Brexit' offer on the table. It is now dead and unlamented. It will never appear on a ballot paper. The consequence is that the only possible referendum now would be Remain vs No Deal, and it would be grossly irresponsible to put that to the electorate. If you believe that No Deal would be a disaster, you can't think otherwise. There's some completely unwarranted confidence on this site that such a vote would be easy for Remain to win, but there's little good reason for that confidence and you shouldn't be risking it. From a broader point of view, a representative democracy that places 'vital food and medicine shortages - yes or no?' on a ballot paper is one that has failed in the most fundamental way imaginable. The time has come to stop hiding behind the 'people's vote' brand, and openly support what 95%+ of second reffers want, which is to revoke article 50, temporarily or permanently. Edited January 16, 2019 by HanoiVillan 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) 56 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said: Excuse my ignorance, but what's wrong with Corbyn? Generally I agree with his politics but on Brexit I don't know what the hell he wants/expects. So he doesn't want No Deal, he doesn't want No Brexit and he doesn't want the only deal the EU are going to offer us. What's your solution Jezza? Edited January 16, 2019 by Wainy316 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: I've obviously been on the opposite journey to many on here, because for me what last night killed was the idea that a second referendum would be good. Whatever we think of May's WA - I thought it was shit personally - it was the only 'positive Brexit' offer on the table. It is now dead and unlamented. It will never appear on a ballot paper. Theconsequence is that the only possible referendum now would be Remain vs No Deal, and it would be grossly irresponsible to put that to the electorate. If you believe that No Deal would be a disaster, you can't think otherwise. There's some completely unwarranted confidence on this site that such a vote would be easy for Remain to win, but there's little good reason for that confidence and you shouldn't be risking it. From a broader point of view, and representative democracy that places 'vital food and medicine shortages - yes or no?' on a ballot paper is one that has failed in the most fundamental way imaginable. The time has come to stop hiding behind the 'people's vote' brand, and openly support what 95%+ of second reffers want, which is to revoke article 50, temporarily or permanently. I was confident No Brexit would win a People's vote but after reading various comments sections on anything but the Guardian it was practically 95% in support at No Deal. The Evening Mail was particularly startling, the amount of frothing at the mouth morons was scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 22 weeks is the legal position on having a second referendum so a request to extend article 50 would probably give an indication of where we are heading ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 54 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said: Excuse my ignorance, but what's wrong with Corbyn? To the tories, DUP or to me? To the tories he wants to undo 30 years of Thatcherite policy of privatisation of pretty much our entire national infrastructure. To the DUP he's pretty much Satan-made-flesh because he dared to speak to the IRA decades before it became government policy to do so. To me, he's a relic of a bygone era. I like a lot of what he says and does but you can't just wish away the modern capitalist world. He's a fantasist but he's not entirely wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 1 minute ago, tonyh29 said: 22 weeks is the legal position on having a second referendum so a request to extend article 50 would probably give an indication of where we are heading ? Can't wait for those European Parliament elections in May. I expect polling day will show the country at it's dignified best. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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