Steven Hollis

[TRO]

45 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

I think, when your new chairman appears to think you are a top 6 side there is plenty of scope for teeth grinding. But leaving that slip aside for a moment there is still plenty of issue to be taken with the rest of what he said.

It is all well and good him saying that we will spend again but it can't be wasted but as I've said elsewhere, how is that going to be stopped exactly? The way he is speaking it is as if the last 10 years had nothing to do with Lerner.

How can he possibly have any credibility talking about the need to set the right structure in the club when he is working for a guy who has chronically failed to do it to date. Are we supposed to just ignore the fact that not so long ago we had the appointment of Fox and very very similar words about the need for structure. Nothing has changed, nothing if anything its got worse. Are we supposed to believe Hollis is going to be the man to change that?

It is all very well him or anyone else talking about the money wasted but if doing so it needs to be done in context. If you appoint a manager like Houllier you have to do so knowing he had a very chequered track record with transfers, you have to accept that putting him in charge of a squad built by O'Neill is going to cause issues as is flip flopping from Houllier to McLeish. I mean seriously, where is the method or structure in moving between those three managers? That is always going to result in money being waisted.

And what about Lerner's impact on that money being waisted? His decision to allow spending to get out of hand then to cut back quite so dramatically had a direct impact on our decisions on players. Decisions on players were made because of the wages they were on, players were allowed to leave on free's at the end of contracts in order to reduce the wage bill. 

Yes we've spent a lot of money still in recent years but we've done so in relatively small amounts each year in terms of net spend while trying to replace large numbers of players and to try and replace them with very cheap gambles. We've tried to do it on the cheap and tried to find players to make a profit on and we've ended up waisting money, that is at least in part on Lerner.

I know for absolute certainty that Lambert rarely if ever got the players he wanted, instead getting the cheapest options and the players who were sometimes 3rd or 4th choice. That wasted money. I'm not absolving managers of blame but Hollis is absolving Lerner, Fox and Faulkner before him of blame for their part in the utter shambles that has been the running of our club, that is what is making me grind my teeth.

Its absolutely patronising BS and it is taking the fans for idiots. Lerner has been here 10 years, if there is a lack of structure at the club that is down to him. Why on earth should anyone take him or his new mouth piece seriously when they say they are going to focus on sorting that? Especially when they appear to be saying they won't be spending much money in the meantime as we lurch towards the Championship because of Lerner and his various previous appointments and the financial mess his miss management has created.

The problem is there is no responsibility taken by those running the club and there is even less credibility and Hollis has already blown his with the stuff he has come out with in the first week. It just sounds cheap, it sounds like excuses, it sounds like the emperors new clothes and it sounds like the same old same old nonsense we've all heard before.

You say whatever he says he would get stick and perhaps that is true but I tell you what, if I were him I'd have had a difficult conversation with Lerner and told him I was going to throw him under the bus. If this guy really is here to turn it around he needed to come out and be honest and acknowledge the mistakes of Lerner, Faulkner, Fox and not just blame the managers and this mythical structure that has had nothing to do with anyone at the club previously as if it was something they inherited and had no power over.

His words are disingenuous, they are patronising, they are bordering on deluded. The man is out of his depth in my view and his initial gambits at communicating with the fans show that to be the case in my view.

Trent, so many points you make are validate I support but let me just raise one.

wasting money on transfers or more accurately, not getting the return from players we were expecting for the money.

which is the way I prefer to see it

the point you make about our managers not getting their first choices is bound to be concerning.....but equally, that applies to so many other managers, Gary Rowett being just one example.

i am always dubious of blaming directors for footballing issues.....indirectly yes, because they are responsible for the recruitment, directly I have less faith in that argument.managers in the main gain trust from owners in the transfer market by their performance and those purse strings get relaxed or tightened based on that criteria, it's rarely unconditional....that was crossroads Mon found.....too many duds.

what must these managers say in these interviews.......that gets them the job....the mind boggles.

finally,

The actions that are talked about are as a result of failure in the past...Lets see if he can make some improvement.

The owner will always be an albatross of sorts and it will continue until he sells ,but I am still equally uncertain with the structure at B6 that anything will change when he does sell.....however one worry is also, IF he did a good deed it would be reported ad versely, that then creates band wagons, which distorts reasonable debate and demonises the individual.

i will endeavour to keep an open mind on Hollis...for how long, remains to be seen.

Edited January 22, 2016 by TRO

[Lord Willard]

Looks like the Baggie fans are right, they are the biggest club in the Midlands. I've been so optimistic about staying up but wow. Listening to Hollis has me feeling glum. I feel sorry for Remi. 

Freak season where Chelsea and Manure don't perform while leicester do is a complete scape goat. 

[lexicon]

You say that nothing has changed but that's pretty difficult to substantiate - all we can go on is what we see on the pitch, we've no idea what's going on at VP because football clubs don't generally tell fans about how exactly the operate. All I know is the business we did last summer was very different to what we'd seen previously and the big purchases we made - Ayew, Gana, Veretout and Amavi have all been good signings and came from careful scouting. That's definitely a big improvement. 

The problem is that football is very different to how it was before - clubs can be running well behind the scenes (in a business sense) and still be shite on the pitch or in the case of Coventry City, vice versa. They're not necessarily linked. 

All I know is, we need to keep Garde and back him reasonably. Do this and I think we'll be OK in the future. 

 

[villa4europe]

Looks like the Baggie fans are right, they are the biggest club in the Midlands. I've been so optimistic about staying up but wow. Listening to Hollis has me feeling glum. I feel sorry for Remi. 

Freak season where Chelsea and Manure don't perform while leicester do is a complete scape goat. 

Not a **** chance

30 years of finishing below us, the majority of which they weren't even in the same league as us, now after 2/3 years of finishing above us and winning their cup they start to believe that bullshit?

There isn't a measuring stick available that would make them a bigger lab than us, even the modern day rubbish of looking at revenue, we're still dragging in more than them

[TRO]

25 minutes ago, lexicon said:

You say that nothing has changed but that's pretty difficult to substantiate - all we can go on is what we see on the pitch, we've no idea what's going on at VP because football clubs don't generally tell fans about how exactly the operate. All I know is the business we did last summer was very different to what we'd seen previously and the big purchases we made - Ayew, Gana, Veretout and Amavi have all been good signings and came from careful scouting. That's definitely a big improvement. 

The problem is that football is very different to how it was before - clubs can be running well behind the scenes (in a business sense) and still be shite on the pitch or in the case of Coventry City, vice versa. They're not necessarily linked. 

All I know is, we need to keep Garde and back him reasonably. Do this and I think we'll be OK in the future. 

 

Those 4 cost the best part of 40 million.....I am not arguing that your wrong....but I am less convinced than you it has found its way on to the pitch.....at present

I have seen in the past us get much better value in relative terms

......but hey I might change my mind.

•  

 

Edited January 22, 2016 by TRO

[HanoiVillan]

Why, exactly, are you advertising children's toothbrushes?

[TRO]

7 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Why, exactly, are you advertising children's toothbrushes?

I'm using my iPad as opposed to my PC and my fingers are too fat.

just a typo.

not sure how I did it.lol

could have been worse, could have been women's knickers.

Edited January 22, 2016 by TRO

[SeanO]

Again wtf, re my above post.

On topic, what is Hollis talking about "infrastructure"? 

I know what the word means but what is he referring to changing if not player's???

Every time I read his comments I get more pissed off.

[TRO]

3 minutes ago, SeanO said:

Again wtf, re my above post.

On topic, what is Hollis talking about "infrastructure"? 

I know what the word means but what is he referring to changing if not player's???

Every time I read his comments I get more pissed off.

That's the problem, I think some are saying on here...what does infrastructure mean relating to us....we can all guess, but what use is that.

[Blasterpocket68]

All   What it means is were ****  with a capital  F

[lexicon]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Those 4 cost the best part of 40 million.....I am not arguing that your wrong....but I am less convinced than you it has found its way on to the pitch.....at present

I have seen in the past us get much better value in relative terms

......but hey I might change my mind.

•  

 

That I would argue, was down to Sherwood. 

[robojoel]

Just seen him interviewed on SSN, business bullshit bingo. What a tit. 

[OutByEaster?]

Our de-facto CEO should be kept as far away from the media as possible. The slight lift that's come with recent results has been completely stalled by this man's insistence that everything must be broken so that he can fix it - he's got a touch of the Trumps about him.

 

[Demitri_C]

he seems like another PR politician, not a football man whatsoever. When he talks about not spending money and we need to fix the internal problems first. If your first team squad is poor, no matter how much you fix the internal problems your still poor and wont achieve anything. I have zero faith in these imbeciles have  a plan to get us straight back up and we will become the next leeds and nottingham forest

 

LERNER OUT

FOX OUT

HOLLIS OUT

AND THE OTHER TWO CLOWNS OUT

[Arj Guy]

8 hours ago, Lord Willard said:

Looks like the Baggie fans are right, they are the biggest club in the Midlands. I've been so optimistic about staying up but wow. Listening to Hollis has me feeling glum. I feel sorry for Remi. 

Freak season where Chelsea and Manure don't perform while leicester do is a complete scape goat. 

Ridiculously untrue and not relevant in the slightest 

[Richard]

Out of touch and disconnected with the fan base 

[Stevo985]

9 hours ago, TrentVilla said:

I think, when your new chairman appears to think you are a top 6 side there is plenty of scope for teeth grinding. But leaving that slip aside for a moment there is still plenty of issue to be taken with the rest of what he said.

He didn't say we were a top 6 side. He was talking about being in the top 6 owners in terms of money put into the club.

9 hours ago, TrentVilla said:

 

It is all well and good him saying that we will spend again but it can't be wasted but as I've said elsewhere, how is that going to be stopped exactly? The way he is speaking it is as if the last 10 years had nothing to do with Lerner.

No it isn't. At all. He's deliberately talked about infrastructure and people running the club. He's not once said that the managers are to blame, although they are obviously part of it. You've decided that he's absolving Lerner from blame. i don't think anything he's said has said that.

9 hours ago, TrentVilla said:

How can he possibly have any credibility talking about the need to set the right structure in the club when he is working for a guy who has chronically failed to do it to date. Are we supposed to just ignore the fact that not so long ago we had the appointment of Fox and very very similar words about the need for structure. Nothing has changed, nothing if anything its got worse. Are we supposed to believe Hollis is going to be the man to change that?

 

I really don't know what you're on about here. 

Lerner wasn't very good at structuring the club. So he's hired two people to restructure it for him. 

Whether or not that will work is beyond me. I'd like to wait and see. But I don't see how just because he was hired by lerner it removes any credibility. This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about regarding people not giving him a chance. What basis do you have to say he has no credibility in this regard? Just because Lerner hired him?

9 hours ago, TrentVilla said:

It is all very well him or anyone else talking about the money wasted but if doing so it needs to be done in context. If you appoint a manager like Houllier you have to do so knowing he had a very chequered track record with transfers, you have to accept that putting him in charge of a squad built by O'Neill is going to cause issues as is flip flopping from Houllier to McLeish. I mean seriously, where is the method or structure in moving between those three managers? That is always going to result in money being waisted.

And what about Lerner's impact on that money being waisted? His decision to allow spending to get out of hand then to cut back quite so dramatically had a direct impact on our decisions on players. Decisions on players were made because of the wages they were on, players were allowed to leave on free's at the end of contracts in order to reduce the wage bill. 

Yes we've spent a lot of money still in recent years but we've done so in relatively small amounts each year in terms of net spend while trying to replace large numbers of players and to try and replace them with very cheap gambles. We've tried to do it on the cheap and tried to find players to make a profit on and we've ended up waisting money, that is at least in part on Lerner.

I know for absolute certainty that Lambert rarely if ever got the players he wanted, instead getting the cheapest options and the players who were sometimes 3rd or 4th choice. That wasted money. I'm not absolving managers of blame but Hollis is absolving Lerner, Fox and Faulkner before him of blame for their part in the utter shambles that has been the running of our club, that is what is making me grind my teeth.

 

This goes back to my second paragraph. This whole rant I've quoted here is because you think he's absolved Lerner of any blame and put it all on the managers. he hasn't. At all. He specifically mentions working on the clubs infrastructure in regards to not wasting money. That could mean scouting systems, recruitment policies, academies and, yes, managers. Managers are a part of this but you seem to be so focused on him blaming the managers but that's not what he's said. Yes he's talked about Lerner putting in money. And whilst I don't think we've spent ENOUGH, we HAVE spent enough to not be bottom of the league by a distance.

 

9 hours ago, TrentVilla said:

 

Its absolutely patronising BS and it is taking the fans for idiots. Lerner has been here 10 years, if there is a lack of structure at the club that is down to him. Why on earth should anyone take him or his new mouth piece seriously when they say they are going to focus on sorting that? Especially when they appear to be saying they won't be spending much money in the meantime as we lurch towards the Championship because of Lerner and his various previous appointments and the financial mess his miss management has created.

Where has Lerner said the lack of structure ISN'T down to him?
This is what I'm failing to grasp. The owner has acknowledged that the club is run badly, appointed two people into major positions to change that structure, yet it's just getting brushed off as "well it's his fault so why should we believe it will get any better?"
I mean what the ****? How can anybody at the club possibly do anything right if that's the attitude? "They've made mistakes before so anything they do now is bullshit"

I just don't understand that mindset. Lerner has run this club poorly. But SURELY appointing people with the specific objective to correct that is a good thing?

9 hours ago, TrentVilla said:

 

The problem is there is no responsibility taken by those running the club and there is even less credibility and Hollis has already blown his with the stuff he has come out with in the first week. It just sounds cheap, it sounds like excuses, it sounds like the emperors new clothes and it sounds like the same old same old nonsense we've all heard before.

Yes there is! You're just not reading it. Hollis has said it, Fox has said it. No Lerner hasn't come out and said it, but again, appointing people to clear up the mess he's made is surely an acknowledgement that he's doing stuff wrong. What on earth do you want in this regards?

 

9 hours ago, TrentVilla said:

 

You say whatever he says he would get stick and perhaps that is true but I tell you what, if I were him I'd have had a difficult conversation with Lerner and told him I was going to throw him under the bus. If this guy really is here to turn it around he needed to come out and be honest and acknowledge the mistakes of Lerner, Faulkner, Fox and not just blame the managers and this mythical structure that has had nothing to do with anyone at the club previously as if it was something they inherited and had no power over.

His words are disingenuous, they are patronising, they are bordering on deluded. The man is out of his depth in my view and his initial gambits at communicating with the fans show that to be the case.

If I sound angry it is because I am, I'm livid not that we are going down but that someone like this rocks up, treats the fans like idiots and spouts this rubbish.

he has been honest. I don't see what's disingenuous about what he's said, and I certainly don't see what's deluded.

Yes Trent, you do sound angry. So angry that I believe you haven't really looked at what's in front of you and you've just jumped into a rant. I re-emphasise that Hollis could have said literally anything and you would have been enraged about it.

I know why people are angry. I'm angry.
But I used to think we were better than just getting on people's backs for no reason. I think I was wrong. 

Usually I value your opinion, but in this case you appear to have just launched into an angry rant and it's based on what you wanted to hear, rather than what's actually been said.

 

Look, Hollis might be the worst chairman ever in the history of the world. But I don't know that, and you don't know that. none of us know that.

We're bottom of the league and nothing the club can say can appease the fans. I get it. But seriously the anger shown towards the new chairman is completely baffling to me before he's even been given a chance.

What he says might be clichéd business talk in some instances, but a lot of what he says is stuff that ALL of us have been saying for ages. Yet when he says it it's met with derision.

The fans think we need to spend money more effectively. Hollis says it and it's wrong.

The fans think we need to change the way the club is run. Hollis says it and it's wrong.

The fans think we need to prepare for the championship. Hollis says it and it's wrong.

The guy is doomed before he's even started.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Stevo985

[Arj Guy]

Needs to stop spouting 'spending money doesn't make a club successful'. Utter **** bullshit. Another clown 

[useless]

I only saw a one minute clip of what he's said, but based on that I'd say that reaction to it on here and other fan sites seems to be an overreaction. Not really sure what else he can come out with to be honest. I wish him luck, with Lerner still owning the club, he'll need it.

Edited January 22, 2016 by useless

[Demitri_C]

Just read the transcript. I honestly cannot believe he called supporters "customers" i am glad a fan shouted back we are not customers we are supporters.

 

What a imbecile