Steven Hollis

[chrissmith921]

1 hour ago, mykeyb said:

Reading the full transcript he states we spent £60 million pounds this summer (not NET obviously) but I will allow him that spin but he then states we spent £60 million the previous season................really?

Apart from the 5 Freebies we signed Cissokho for £2m, Sanchez £4.7m & Gil £3.2m, Bowery went for £250k and Ahmadi £700k.

I make that less than £9m not £60m

Ellis football accounting - we got rid of Bent (so 24m lost) etc etc.

[mykeyb]

2 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

No he didn't. He was talking about last summer on both occasions. I assume he was emphasising his point.

Not being there I had to take it from the written word, which I read one way, which was incorrect.

I would like to know from our activity in the Summer how Randy spent £23 million on transfers,

[Stevo985]

2 minutes ago, mykeyb said:

Not being there I had to take it from the written word, which I read one way, which was incorrect.

I would like to know from our activity in the Summer how Randy spent £23 million on transfers,

I'd like to know that too.

I'm guessing it would be down to how deals are structured. Fees are almost never paid up front these days, especially large ones. So, for example, I imagine the fee we "received" for Benteke, is structured, and we almost certainly didn't get £32million of hard cash in the summer for him.

So my guess would be it's something to do with that. Our net spend based purely on cash spent and received in the summer was £23 million.

But I'm speculating, like I said I'd like to see the workings there too.

[PussEKatt]

Stuff Hollis and his carrying on about how much we spent last year.Why does he not total up how much we spent in total in the last 5 years ?!

I mean just looking at last year makes it look like we are big spenders.What about the spending before we sold Benteke ?

[BOF]

I'm really not liking the underlying message I'm getting from this guy so far in his comments.  Someone above mentioned that it's almost sounding as if the division we play in is secondary to how 'fixed' everything is, and I agree.  It's like he's not only trying to downplay or welcome an imminent relegation, but there's very little in the way of how to 'fix' the relegation.  If he thinks that kind of 'narrative' is going to sit well with the fanbase going forward, if and when the inevitable does happen, then he has another thing coming very quickly.

He has also demonstrated a fairly serious lack of judgement so early in his tenure by slagging off the summer signings.  If your area of expertise is not the playing staff then don't comment on them.  The secondary worry for me would be that he lacked the awareness of his own limitations to know not to open his mouth on such matters.  He needs to learn very quickly that if he's asked a question to which he doesn't know the answer or might do more harm than good by providing one, then give the diplomatic/politician's answer and side-step it.  I'd much rather hear an executive member have the courage to admit that "there are others at the club better qualified to answer that question" than some Johnny-come-lately (both in terms of the club and in terms of the job description) fumbling his way through a minefield of loaded questions and coming out the other end having provided ammunition for anyone who wants it.

[PussEKatt]

Is it true that Hollis ran a successful mushroom farming business before comming here ?

Keep them in the dark and feed them bullshit.

[Dr_Pangloss]

38 minutes ago, mykeyb said:

Not being there I had to take it from the written word, which I read one way, which was incorrect.

I would like to know from our activity in the Summer how Randy spent £23 million on transfers,

It's called Doug-onomics

[BOF]

4 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

It's called Doug-onomics

Just don't mention amortisation.  Doh !

[briny_ear]

Spoilsport. We haven't had  a good long discussion of amortisation for quite a while.

I'm ready.

[TRO]

5 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

He didn't say we were a top 6 side. He was talking about being in the top 6 owners in terms of money put into the club.

No it isn't. At all. He's deliberately talked about infrastructure and people running the club. He's not once said that the managers are to blame, although they are obviously part of it. You've decided that he's absolving Lerner from blame. i don't think anything he's said has said that.

I really don't know what you're on about here. 

Lerner wasn't very good at structuring the club. So he's hired two people to restructure it for him. 

Whether or not that will work is beyond me. I'd like to wait and see. But I don't see how just because he was hired by lerner it removes any credibility. This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about regarding people not giving him a chance. What basis do you have to say he has no credibility in this regard? Just because Lerner hired him?

This goes back to my second paragraph. This whole rant I've quoted here is because you think he's absolved Lerner of any blame and put it all on the managers. he hasn't. At all. He specifically mentions working on the clubs infrastructure in regards to not wasting money. That could mean scouting systems, recruitment policies, academies and, yes, managers. Managers are a part of this but you seem to be so focused on him blaming the managers but that's not what he's said. Yes he's talked about Lerner putting in money. And whilst I don't think we've spent ENOUGH, we HAVE spent enough to not be bottom of the league by a distance.

 

Where has Lerner said the lack of structure ISN'T down to him?
This is what I'm failing to grasp. The owner has acknowledged that the club is run badly, appointed two people into major positions to change that structure, yet it's just getting brushed off as "well it's his fault so why should we believe it will get any better?"
I mean what the ****? How can anybody at the club possibly do anything right if that's the attitude? "They've made mistakes before so anything they do now is bullshit"

I just don't understand that mindset. Lerner has run this club poorly. But SURELY appointing people with the specific objective to correct that is a good thing?

Yes there is! You're just not reading it. Hollis has said it, Fox has said it. No Lerner hasn't come out and said it, but again, appointing people to clear up the mess he's made is surely an acknowledgement that he's doing stuff wrong. What on earth do you want in this regards?

 

he has been honest. I don't see what's disingenuous about what he's said, and I certainly don't see what's deluded.

Yes Trent, you do sound angry. So angry that I believe you haven't really looked at what's in front of you and you've just jumped into a rant. I re-emphasise that Hollis could have said literally anything and you would have been enraged about it.

I know why people are angry. I'm angry.
But I used to think we were better than just getting on people's backs for no reason. I think I was wrong. 

Usually I value your opinion, but in this case you appear to have just launched into an angry rant and it's based on what you wanted to hear, rather than what's actually been said.

 

Look, Hollis might be the worst chairman ever in the history of the world. But I don't know that, and you don't know that. none of us know that.

We're bottom of the league and nothing the club can say can appease the fans. I get it. But seriously the anger shown towards the new chairman is completely baffling to me before he's even been given a chance.

What he says might be clichéd business talk in some instances, but a lot of what he says is stuff that ALL of us have been saying for ages. Yet when he says it it's met with derision.

The fans think we need to spend money more effectively. Hollis says it and it's wrong.

The fans think we need to change the way the club is run. Hollis says it and it's wrong.

The fans think we need to prepare for the championship. Hollis says it and it's wrong.

The guy is doomed before he's even started.

Very well put....But along with you, Trent writes some good stuff, so its not a sleight on him..... I too guess he was frustrated in what he heard, but I still think the basic stuff is what seems to be alluding us, so its hard to blame Hollis for mentioning it.

it is fair to say we are all regurgitating a lot of it, but there is a limit of what you can do....so it can sound boring.....we have just got to get on and improve things....its action now, words are empty.

It was worse than this before RS took over and as bad before GT rescued us......RG could be that man with a new  hierarchy to support it.

Randy Lerner is not going away any time soon.....Randy Lerner has already declared his inability to manage Villa's affairs.....He owns it so he has paid the price and quite rightly so.

We must give him the opportunity to address these shortfalls by handing over the reigns of day to day running of the club and hope that they know what they are doing.....only time will tell.

[Grasshopper]

4 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

Nope not in my eyes. He was covering his arse. A better and more professional way of answering the question to appease already angry fans Stevo would have been him relating it back to Villa. Something like "Every business I have ever been involved in is only as good as the service you provide for your customer, so in my current role the results on the pitch to appease our great supporters/fan base"

 

Oh come on

 

[TRO]

When people like Hollis make these kind of unsavoury addresses to the fans.....He is trying to reach many different personalities and his delivery will be interpreted in their own way.

Its inevitable there will be different opinions on the sincerity of the dialogue.

blimey we can struggle with each other at times to get our points understood by some.

[BOF]

That's the other thing I worry about TRO.  I think it's fairly safe to assume that part of his remit will be an increased dialogue with the fans, because a complete lack of a dialogue has been a criticism of the club to this point.  Now if this is the quality of what he's going to serve up, then I think he's going to be his own worst enemy.

After all, as the old saying goes "It is better to be thought a fool*, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt".

 

 

* Fool in this case is a strong word but you get the jist.

[srsmithusa]

Did anybody ask "when you say 'we have not had 'the proper infrastructure' exactly what are you referencing?  Infrastructure is a vague term that can mean anything from the plumbing needs modernized to the scouting and decision-making had no accountability or strategy, to there weren't enough snacks placed in the locker room.  Exactly what infrastructure has been improper and exactly how is it going to be repaired?

[PussEKatt]

What Hollis is saying is in code.When he uses terms like Infastructure,market model,net spend,economics,self sufficient etc etc etc what he really means is that he is in Lerners pocket,and therefore he is trying to convinve us that spending less than the other clubs is the way to go.

It cost less to run a championship club than a PL club.Think how much we can save if we were a league 2 club...the savings would be enormus.

[SeanO]

2 hours ago, PussEKatt said:

What Hollis is saying is in code.When he uses terms like Infastructure,market model,net spend,economics,self sufficient etc etc etc what he really means is that he is in Lerners pocket,and therefore he is trying to convinve us that spending less than the other clubs is the way to go.

It cost less to run a championship club than a PL club.Think how much we can save if we were a league 2 club...the savings would be enormus.

Why stop there? Conference here we come!

[VillaCas]

I held off commenting yesterday on Fox, Hollis and the AGM and instead read the posts and watched how the tone seemed to soften somewhat during the day as a few more posters came out in their defence.

For me what is happening here is that some peoples natural optimism and need for a straw to cling to has outweighed the weight of evidence that has been clear to see for several years

I think most are united behind the idea that Lerner has been a terrible owner. For me he has been terrible not in a malicious, calculating way but in bumbling, half-baked, half-arsed way.  Personally, I’ve no problem at all with the amount he has invested but I have a real problem with his commitment, his flip-flopping, his poor decision-making and in the feast / famine way in which he has applied his money and his attention. In particular I hate the sycophants and yes-men he constantly surrounds himself with

When Fox was appointed I had real hope that this might signal the turning of a corner. Fox’s business background is fairly impressive and I was hopeful that this would translate into success for us. Personally I was pleased with Fox’s initial backing for Lambert – I liked Lambert and felt he was dealt a poor hand in terms of the backing he received and I liked that Fox did not jettison him at the first sign of trouble. Eventually of course he had to go but I had massive confidence that Fox had things under control and that a smart, sharp, thoughtful and intelligent manager was waiting in the wings.

Then Fox unveiled Sherwood – I was shocked (and said so here on VT). For me it signalled that Fox and his advisors were absolutely rolling the dice. Personally I’m all for a little bit of statistics and data to go along with “gut instinct” but Sherwoods appointment was all gut. He had no track record and was so removed from the sort of manager Lambert was that it was clear that a huge turnover of players would be required during the summer.

Now we come to the summer recruitment – this is where it completely unravels.  I think that we bought some good players but not the right mix for us. Not the right mix in terms of experience v potential and not the right mix in terms of quality – money is obviously not unlimited but we needed a couple of real quality aquistions to replace Vlaar, Delph and Benteke rather than say Traore (who I like but is not a here and now player)

They (Sherwood, Fox, Reilly, Halmstadt) clearly thought that Gabby and Gestede were going to be enough up front (even Sherwood realised quickly that this wasn’t going to be the case hence his desperate clutching at straws pursuit of Adebayor) – this was their biggest mistake

Sherwood and Fox look to me like they fell out early on. Sherwood wouldn’t play the new guys and the whole thing unravelled.

Now we come back to Lerner. I think Lerner he put all his hopes in Fox and now feels Fox has let him down.  He either can’t afford, financially or reputationally to get rid of Fox or he thinks that Fox’s were teething mistakes and he will get better. 

Just to be safe, Lerner has appointed Hollis who’s role is to watch Fox like a hawk. Hollis looks to me like another typical Lerner appointment – a yes man with no experience in the area in which he will be operating (for me our problems are as much football-related as they are business-related).

Hollis has not started well. He has been here five minutes and he is talking like he’s got all the answers. Everytime he opens his mouth “Villa in Chaos” headlines ensue. He is treating his customers (sic) like idiots with his “it’s not about the money” nonsense. Sadly, some are already falling for his trite, bland homilies around “hard work and desire”.  Expect a non-influencial Villa Legend to be appointed to the board next as a sop to the fans

Two things are most worrying, firstly, Hollis is talking like he his CEO not Fox and secondly, they are already wildly divergent over important issues – e.g. recruitment Hollis “You’ve only got to look at the league table”, Fox “Summer dealings have been a success, 7 are in the first XI and the rest in the match day squad”. Things have not started well and that does not bode well.

They’ve given up on us this year and I think are hoping to “reset” in the summer (I’m not sure this is how it was sold to Garde when he came onboard).  I expect fireworks between Fox and Hollis, if not publically then behind the scenes and my biggest worry is that Garde will walk once he realises what a circus he has joined

Do I have all the answers – No.  I’m in the camp now that I’d prefer Hollis to shut up and weedle as much money as he can out of Lerner and let Fox and Garde see what they can do in Championship.

(I didn’t know where best to post this so I’ve put in in the AGM and Hollis threads)

[TRO]

My Interpretation of what he is saying is that money in isolation will not solve this problem( in relative terms)

My understanding and I think it is his is ......poor decision making has landed us where we are.

Those poor decisions can derive from many sources, That can mean the employees made the wrong decisions due to incompetence or mitigation can creep in by means of their decisions were marred by criteria/restraints they had to work to.

Lets make this point clear, just about all football managers have to work to a budget, whether they like it or not.....some make it work through networking, some don't, some get lucky, but that is hard to do, when you have to get lucky so many times to make it work.

I don't believe there is any secret formula we are missing, I don't believe that there is a process out there that we are not doing that has hampered our progress....This is not Steve Jobs or Bill Gates territory, this is football.

It was not so long ago (c 20 years) Arsenal was a not so far away from us in terms of stature......2 people changed it.

• Arsene Wenger
• David Dein

They projected Arsenal in to orbit by their Nous and good decision making.....from those good decisions, derives trust,and from that trust money is released, that liquidity allows the platform for more good decisions and the snowball starts or the domino effect takes place.

Our profile is in stark contrast and thus every time we hear any news from the corridors of power at B6.....  It has an overtone of Austerity.

Austerity is usually the correcting method for poor previous decisions.

Our owner, whether you like it or not, or whether it is ultimately his fault or not.....He has not got the funds to keep chasing rainbows....and if you think he has, while he is here its going to be one frustrating place.

There is no secret formula or mystic plan for getting us back to respectability....Its about the right people making the right decisions, we have seen it in the past and it will rear its head again.

Have we got the right people ,I don't know, time will tell.

I do know this, anyone who is in these jobs to turn the club around will have their work cut out and it will require every sinew of creativity, humility and good networking skills to turn this ship around.

On the point of, he is Lerners puppet....Is it ever likely someone is going to come in and be at odds with the man who has just appointed him, before he has got his feet under the table....Even if he believes Lerner is at fault, he will/should ignore the temptation to criticise, bank the thoughts and move forward in a positive way to rectify the damage.

I do believe what will raise this phoenix is people in key positions that make prudent decisions.....Hollis may feel those people may need help and support to make those prudent decisions....thats where maybe the Infrastructure he talks about is the support mechanism.

I love the club and I believe all these poor decisions have not come from a malicious attempt to damage it in any way.....its just people being out of their depth.

I for one will not make Hollis's job more difficult than it is.....especially when I do not know all the ( behind the scenes)facts.

Lets just hope the solution doesn't take as long as the Chilcot Inquiry. 

Edited January 23, 2016 by TRO

[VillaCas]

TRO, I'm not getting into a whole debate with you on this. I agree with a lot of what you say but I feel your faith that Hollis as the man who will put this right is desperately and sadly misplaced. Hollis looks a solid gold poor appointment from the Lerner pantheon of bad decisions

Much as he is tainted by an already poor start I feel Fox is our best bet (best of a bad bunch) and all I can see from Hollis is that he puts his foot in his mouth every time he opens it.  Hollis needs to shut up and get out the way (as much as possible with his role) and hope that Fox has got it right this time with Garde

We both share a passion and love for the club - lets hope that somewhere in this circus a hero emerges.  MY money is still on Garde to sort us out despite the clowns around him

 

[TRO]

44 minutes ago, VillaCas said:

TRO, I'm not getting into a whole debate with you on this. I agree with a lot of what you say but I feel your faith that Hollis as the man who will put this right is desperately and sadly misplaced. Hollis looks a solid gold poor appointment from the Lerner pantheon of bad decisions

Much as he is tainted by an already poor start I feel Fox is our best bet (best of a bad bunch) and all I can see from Hollis is that he puts his foot in his mouth every time he opens it.  Hollis needs to shut up and get out the way (as much as possible with his role) and hope that Fox has got it right this time with Garde

We both share a passion and love for the club - lets hope that somewhere in this circus a hero emerges.  MY money is still on Garde to sort us out despite the clowns around him

 

VC

I enjoyed your post and despite our different personalities I did see entirely where you are coming from.....Hey you could be right.

Just some points

• It could have been deemed Fox has too many fires to put out and needs help
• Hollis is the new Broom, so they felt he was best to deliver the message of doom that has reigned for years, maybe he in terms of time with us was not the right one.
• I know you hate Sherwood.....but may i suggest the Sherwood of 2014/2015 to 2015/2016 had quite a different standing ....It would be folly to look at the summer intake/departures to not make the deduction that was an major influence......I get very few derogatory remarks about sherwood when I am speaking to villa fans, I'm not sure if your views are that representative, maybe on here yes.....but hey having said that, under the circumstances i supported the decision to part company.
• On the point about the "Yes man" .....Its an old chesnut and I guess we all have moments in our own jobs when you can roll out that one.....I have said it myself. In reality Lerner is going to warm to the candidate HE feels connects with HIS vision( if he has one), that is only natural. You are only as good as the interviewer. Conversley If you went in and said all the things that are right for the job, but the interviewer did not see that.....NO JOB.....Thats not just AV thats everywhere.How many times have you heard your peers in work  say hes/shes good for that job, will smash it.....Interview/failed.
• I have a sneaky feeling if Garde can dodge all the flying bullets and just get on with it ( sure there will be set backs) It will come right.....My age lets me say "i have seen this all before"....Its rare a solution arrives like a steam train.....it gradually creeps up.That is what I think will happen. I hope it is Garde, seems a really decent guy.
• While Lerner is the catalyst of all our problems ....He is OUR owner.....He might be s*** but hes our S***

Finally, I marched in support of VFC with Jonathan to get rid of HDE at the time......He At 92 and still attending games, my hate has diluted and quite frankly a little embarrassed by it. I still remember the things that I was opposed to him for, but with years in a business world my self....I now have a more softened view to my original thoughts.

I am not a supporter or aggressor/ of Randy Lerner( I have a mixed view) but I do feel he is more misguided than malicious.....However that does not help the **** we are in and that is what is having a major influence on most of our views.

Edited January 23, 2016 by TRO