TRO Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 20 hours ago, BOF said: That's the other thing I worry about TRO. I think it's fairly safe to assume that part of his remit will be an increased dialogue with the fans, because a complete lack of a dialogue has been a criticism of the club to this point. Now if this is the quality of what he's going to serve up, then I think he's going to be his own worst enemy. After all, as the old saying goes "It is better to be thought a fool*, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt". * Fool in this case is a strong word but you get the jist. equally, there is another saying that says " have the courage of your own convictions" just a thought - when a salesman is selling to you.....you may not buy it on the basis of what he said. doesn't mean the Product or service is no good.....It means its way he described it hasn't appealed to you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) 14 minutes ago, TRO said: VC I enjoyed your post and despite our different personalities I did see entirely where you are coming from.....Hey you could be right. Just some points It could have been deemed Fox has too many fires to put out and needs help I understand but worry that Hollis not the right help Hollis is the new Broom, so they felt he was best to deliver the message of doom that has reigned for years, maybe he in terms of time with us was not the right one. I know you hate Sherwood.....but may i suggest the Sherwood of 2014/2015 to 2015/2016 had quite a different standing ....It would be folly to look at the summer intake/departures to not make the deduction that was an major influence......I get very few derogatory remarks about sherwood when I am speaking to villa fans, I'm not sure if your views are that representative, maybe on here yes.....but hey having said that, under the circumstances i supported the decision to part company. We'll have to agree to disagree over Sherwood. I've been consistent in my view from day one On the point about the "Yes man" .....Its an old chesnut and I guess we all have moments in our own jobs when you can roll out that one.....I have said it myself. In reality Lerner is going to warm to the candidate HE feels connects with HIS vision( if he has one), that is only natural. You are only as good as the interviewer. Conversley If you went in and said all the things that are right for the job, but the interviewer did not see that.....NO JOB.....Thats not just AV thats everywhere.How many times have you heard your peers in work say hes/shes good for that job, will smash it.....Interview/failed. I have a sneaky feeling if Garde can dodge all the flying bullets and just get on with it ( sure there will be set backs) It will come right.....My age lets me say "i have seen this all before"....Its rare a solution arrives like a steam train.....it gradually creeps up.That a what I think will happen. I hope it is Garde, seems a really decent guy. Agree entirely While Lerner is the catalyst of all our problems ....He is OUR owner.....He might be s*** but hes our S*** Finally, I marched in support of VFC with Jonathan to get rid of HDE at the time......He At 92 and still attending games, my hate has diluted and quite frankly a little embarrassed by it. I still remember the things that I was opposed to him for, but with years in a business world my self....I now have a more softened view to my original thoughts. I am not a supporter or aggressor/ of Randy Lerner( I have a mixed view) but I do feel he is more misguided than malicious (Agree entirely).....However that does not help the **** we are in and that is what is having a major influence on most of our views. We're in danger of agreeing here - I will really need to have another think about this I guess my worry is Hollis looks like a complete plum to me and he may lack the brains or the modesty to stay in the background and do his work from there. He seems from first sightings to love the limelight and he needs to back up a bit. I know some will say its refreshing to hear from the horsesmouth but I'd prefer that horse to be Fox not Hollis. We'll see Edited January 23, 2016 by VillaCas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted January 23, 2016 Moderator Share Posted January 23, 2016 That's the other thing I worry about TRO. I think it's fairly safe to assume that part of his remit will be an increased dialogue with the fans, because a complete lack of a dialogue has been a criticism of the club to this point. Now if this is the quality of what he's going to serve up, then I think he's going to be his own worst enemy. After all, as the old saying goes "It is better to be thought a fool*, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt". * Fool in this case is a strong word but you get the jist. equally, there is another saying that says " have the courage of your own convictions" just a thought - when a salesman is selling to you.....you may not buy it on the basis of what he said. doesn't mean the Product or service is no good.....It means its way he described it hasn't appealed to you. I'm already sold on Villa. Just not the salesman. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) 13 minutes ago, VillaCas said: We're in danger of agreeing here - I will really need to have another think about this I guess my worry in Hollis looks like a complete plum to me and he may lack the brains or the modesty to stay in the background and do his work from there. He seems from first sightings to love the limelight and he needs to back up a bit. I know some will say its refreshing to hear from the horsesmouth but I'd prefer that horse to be Fox not Hollis. We'll see We do not have to agree in order to enjoy each others posts....It would be boring if we did and hey I have been known to write something and change my view on my original post....its called "being able to reason" I have instances on here where I am always agreeing with certain folk, because I do and vice versa......but there will always be instances where you think.....hold on, not that one. I love the diversity of opinion and enjoy skill of other writers, its fascinating I do look for the good in folk first and only when I don't.... I change my view.....That may happen with Hollis. Hollis.....I am not going to bin him after one AGM speech. I will give him time before i make a judgement. I just want my team to win. Edited January 23, 2016 by TRO 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 TRO and CAS Great Discussion Gentlemen. In my dreams, it's what all of VT would be like (with an occasional pun rampage thrown in). For what it's worth, I think I'm closest to TRO on most things, but CAS on Sherwood. I think the best news is that, all mistakes aside, I feel like Fox is the best we've had in that role during Lerner's tenure, and I think Garde is well suited to the steady, consistent progress we need in the team performance area. So, I'm hopeful. Like you both, I'm worried by the start Hollis has made, but I think that Fox's role was too big. I see a conflict when one man is responsible for all the income from marketing and also how much can be spent on which player positions. Better to let Fox focus on marketing the product while Remy focuses on the product itself. While I think it's still important for them to work together (there is some inherent overlap) with one guy sort of "mediating" if you will, between them. In other words, I think our decision making structure may be much better now. I also think the people in those roles seem capable (Hollis too new to tell, really) So I have hope the decisions will be better. HOWEVER, I think that all decisions related to sporting performance are a bit of a gamble. The free transfer on the next Pele can go wrong with a thousand details over which you have no control. (he can get injured, sick, have a marital fallout, lose interest, hate the locker room, etc.) Anyway, don't want to sidetrack it with my ramblings. Great discussion, gentlemen. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Fox has been a catastrophe since he arrived. A marketing man in a terrible over-promotion, of the sort that Lerner just loves to make. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 23, 2016 Moderator Share Posted January 23, 2016 3 hours ago, VillaCas said: my worry is Hollis looks like a complete plum to me and he may lack the brains or the modesty to stay in the background and do his work from there. Mine too. It must be the case that somewhere amongst the world of these overpaid business types some of them might actually be any good. I mean surely by the law of averages, one or two of them might genuinely be capable people, rather than dial-a-clone buzzword-spouting, synergy-creating oxygen thieves? Hopefully this Hilton chap is actually good at stuff, not just another greasy pole climber. And hopefully he can be good at being Chairman of a Football Club. His early utterings, however haven't massively helped create a good impression. Still, early days. 34 minutes ago, Risso said: Fox has been a catastrophe since he arrived. A marketing man in a terrible over-promotion, of the sort that Lerner just loves to make. Sadly, this is true. The results of his labours have not been shining beacons of success. Maybe in the Commercial area (his previous role and where his background lies) he's done good things. If he has, well done. But the football part of it, very mixed. I think the problem with Lerner, bizarrely as with Ellis but caused by an opposite reason, is that he's never appointed a properly constituted board of people with the right mix of skills. Ellis thought he knew everything, and that there was no one better than himself, so didn't really bother with too many other people - when the Club floated and became a Plc he had to abide by the rules and so appointed people to the board who were previously non-board "do as I say" employees. Lerner never claimed to know anything or everything, but has been strangely reluctant, other than during the takeover, to use the skills and knowledge of actual people with experience. It's always been (till lately) trusted friends and employees from his previous job, none of whom had the slightest idea or or background in football. With Fox he finally got a Football industry person, albeit Commercial rather than CEO background, but the struggles with making sensible football decisions continue. They do seem to be trying to get a structure in place, finally, for a clearly organised way of working, with people appointed to roles and given the responsibility to do their work. So that's a start. Assuming Randy Lerner has basically washed his hands of the club, and only wants to be involved with it if there's a buyer found, and that this Hollis person has been told - "I'm not putting any money in - run this club for me in a way which will make it attractive to a buyer and which won't cost me anything or cause me any more trouble, just get on with it", then Hollis needs to set out to Fox what he needs him to achieve, what help he can be provided with and when it needs to be done by. And then they need to stay quiet, other than give perhaps the odd progress report at the end of the season and maybe one or twice during it. It'd be great if they'd consult supporter about ticket prices, availability and so on, but I don't suppose they will. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Let's hope after his initial talking to the press he then returns to the shadows and lets his actions speak rather than be like the porno dwarves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Remi Garde's coat had R.G on the chest. It should read either R.G. or RG Aren't these exactly the kind of infrastructural flaws that Hollis was bought in to sort out? Pull your finger out Hollis! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post blandy Posted January 23, 2016 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted January 23, 2016 1 hour ago, VillaCas said: Remi Garde's coat had R.G on the chest. Yes, he should put a stop to it. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderball Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) I think the formula should be straight forward. I think the management should be given time, and for us not to read too much into rhetoric for now, let their actions and policy do the talking. Let's face it, what we all feared has come to bear, we are going to be relegated, so with that monkey off our back we can start to plan and put in place a strategy rather fire fighting at the basement of the premier league with short termism signings and rats jumping from the ship. Yes mistakes have been made, and hind sight is a wonderful thing, but I think the recruitment strategy was good in the summer, positive plans see to be being put in place, and even if it can only be appreciated in the medium term rather than the short term, which is what may have kept us up, but maybe this will help us beat the perpetual cycle, albeit by going down for a season (hopefully only one). It is something that shortcomings are acknowledged, not all do or would. What I dearly hope is that we keep Garde for several years, allow him to make the footballing decisions, let him make it his team, his club, let him influence the recruitment - he seems a thinker and an intelligent man with the balls and grit to go with it. With time, Garde will get respect and hopefully players will want to play for and under him. But this needs to be coupled with steel to reject bids for our players just like West Brom and Everton have to their credit and benefit. We can only improve by keeping the talent, if we can hold onto Veretout, Ayew, Amavi, Adama, Gana, Gil they will grow and develop as a team, we can add and they are the future, but to lose them, even at a profit would be a step backwards again. I just hope the language Fox and Hollis used to describe these new recruits contracts meant we fully intend to hang onto them, meaning they will receive less money in the Championship thus we don't have to sell, but have they got the steel to insist they stay, even if others come knocking? Hanging onto our key assests whilst adding more talent like last summer will be the litmus test of Fox and Hollis, we are sick of selling our best talent and the management churn. And in fairness, the players should be bought from the business not sugar daddy Lerner's wallet, so the economics have to be solid. Edited January 23, 2016 by thunderball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 BBC 5 live Sport @5liveSport 24h24 hours ago #AVFC's new chairman has come out with this quote - we're not quite sure what he means... Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 What the actual **** just shut the **** up already !!! Though I guess some fans wanted the club to communicate with us and he is regularly..... You now have what you wished for-enjoy Oh but he is not saying what I want to hear. Cue you guessed it . Club gets criticised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted January 24, 2016 Moderator Share Posted January 24, 2016 You'd need to know what he was answering and you'd need the whole quote before getting the knives out. But it is difficult to see how that quote can be anything other than another facepalm. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 The whole club has become a laughing stock, we may as well have a clown at the helm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 24, 2016 Moderator Share Posted January 24, 2016 14 hours ago, StanBalaban said: BBC 5 live Sport @5liveSport 24h24 hours ago #AVFC's new chairman has come out with this quote - we're not quite sure what he means... Anyone? It's one of those tedious management consultant buzzword phrases. It originated in America somewhere and shiny faced berks who charge extortionate fees now recycle it as some kind of new age business wisdom. They would serve everyone (except themselves) better if they just shut the heck up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 I could be wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if he meant that relegation would be the perfect opportunity for the club to clear some of the financial drag around it's neck. High earning players released and players with resale value sold and replaced with lower earners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROTTERDAM1982 Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 Hes annoying me already, an accountant who is completely out of his depth. 1) We are not "customers", we are supporters. 2)Even if you think we are down, you don't say it.You could argue that a new striker, and a goal scoring midfielder, then we would have had at least 2 more wins in the last 4 lwague games. 3) How does RG feel.Says there is not enough quality in the team, and yet he and Fox say he is happy with the squad. 4) Even if you expect to go down, there are still plenty of better players out there who would improve us, and be happy to play for a club like Villa, and more importantly get 6 months in the Prem. Hes a poor manager Hollis, and i'm pissed off with him already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 15 hours ago, StanBalaban said: BBC 5 live Sport @5liveSport 24h24 hours ago #AVFC's new chairman has come out with this quote - we're not quite sure what he means... Anyone? We are not wasting a good crisis..............We are riding the crest of a slump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAL Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 I can see it getting very ugly if he doesnt step back and stay silent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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