Grasshopper Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 1 hour ago, AVTuco said: Nah, I don't buy it. You just want to cut costs, like you all do. Yeah Admit it It gets you off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 (edited) On 17 January 2016 at 18:14, Richard said: Yes , I avoided answering that as to be honest I dont know, I'm not sure anyone knows and I think that is part of the problem. We have some intelligent, thoughtful fans and former employees of this club that I think would be highly motivated to help the club if those running would be willing to listen. This is another part of the problem. I dont think they are prepared to listen. I think that they are arrogant in actually thinking they have the correct solution and will continue to pursue it even though it has failed. They will carry on banging the same drum that has brought us to this position not accepting they could be wrong, or that there are people worth listening to. Lots of people have said the thing that gave us the biggest problem was the rise of Man Citeh. I think quite the opposite. The thing that has caused us the greatest problem IMO is not the rise of the money clubs, but the rise of the "smaller"clubs. The rise of Southampton and how they conducted business , developing younger players and selling for a lot, has actually been the biggest factor for us. Closely followed by Palace, Swansea and latterly Leicester have been a huge problem for us as I believe those running our club have seen that and tried to use that same template at Villa. I dont have an issue with that but they tried to impose the template without any substance. Tried to use it with nothing to build on. It's like your mate has windows on his pc so you go to the files try and copy it to use on your own pc. It wont work. You have the template but there is no coding for it to work. We have no identity as a club, none whatsoever. Those running it do not, IMO, have the first idea of the industry in which the business is operating. They have tried to implement a solution without laying the groundwork for that solution to be a success . And as we have continued failure and stumble from one chaos to the next they do not understand why it is failing and just continue to try and implement it. There is nothing there at the club and that is a big big worry because there needs to be, and quick or else we are going further down. Under Ellis we had an identity. Maybe people did not like it or agree with it but we knew what we were and worked to it. He never invested to go beyond and restricted what we could have been but we had an identity. Under Lerner I couldn't tell you what we stand for. Proud History Bright Future was the strapline used. Fine, tell me what the bright future is, what we stand for and how you are going to achieve it. he never has. Part of that is because I dont think he ever knew. It was mostly superficial I think. I suspect he came in thought he could make an initial investment in a business that was underachieving and could achieve more and that it would be easy. There was never any detail, or clarity on the journey. Just come in spend a bit it will be easy and then sit back and wait for the success. Largely he had a manager that he could rely on for that but he left and his managerial apppintments since have not been able to as he has tried to be more involved , restricted the investment but still without the clear identity. What does Aston Villa stand for? What does it mean? We can't answer that as fans and how bad is that? The employees and those charged with running it cant answer it either and they need to be able to. Good post Richard The interesting bit about Leicester is that it has been mooted they have copied the Aston villa 1981 model. a bit rich they can copy it......but we can't learn from our own success. oh!!! Some would say different times, you can't look back......that's our problem, we learn nothing, can't see the woods for Rees. Edited January 18, 2016 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 I just want goals for and none against. ......does it need to get anymore complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 When we won the league in 1980/81.....no one was interested in how much money we spent or how crap Ron Bendall was or why he was never there. We was playing winning football......so all the back room stuff was as inspiring as watching 2 amoeba's copulating. the other notable feature was......who ever we did sign, made an impact on the whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 20 hours ago, nick76 said: I'm a bean counter and we aren't all about cutting costs. My role in my company is to squeeze the best out of the resources we have and find ways of increasing that revenue base through synergies, new avenues for revenue generating and exploring new markets. Obviously there are far more people than me involved in my business but I am a senior person and over the 5 years our revenue has doubled and our employees have almost doubled. You squeeze the resources you have , re-invest and just just keep growing. Bean counters always get the bad rub of the green in terms of "come to cut costs" which is not true, we get value for money from the cost some of us use that to generate more. I'm not defending him, I'm defending the argument that because he's a bean counter he obviously wont benefit Villa and will continue to cut costs. I'm pretty sure that if I was put in his role, with my background you would say the same about me but if you talk to anybody that knows me I'm all about growth, expansion and improvement. If bean counters were not important.....there wouldn't be any. i know it sounds obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 I loved Hollis comments today, "randy wnats to make us one of the best run teams in the premier league" If you haven't noticed you baffoon we are on the verge of relegation. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 On 17/01/2016 at 18:14, Richard said: Yes , I avoided answering that as to be honest I dont know, I'm not sure anyone knows and I think that is part of the problem. We have some intelligent, thoughtful fans and former employees of this club that I think would be highly motivated to help the club if those running would be willing to listen. This is another part of the problem. I dont think they are prepared to listen. I think that they are arrogant in actually thinking they have the correct solution and will continue to pursue it even though it has failed. They will carry on banging the same drum that has brought us to this position not accepting they could be wrong, or that there are people worth listening to. Lots of people have said the thing that gave us the biggest problem was the rise of Man Citeh. I think quite the opposite. The thing that has caused us the greatest problem IMO is not the rise of the money clubs, but the rise of the "smaller"clubs. The rise of Southampton and how they conducted business , developing younger players and selling for a lot, has actually been the biggest factor for us. Closely followed by Palace, Swansea and latterly Leicester have been a huge problem for us as I believe those running our club have seen that and tried to use that same template at Villa. I dont have an issue with that but they tried to impose the template without any substance. Tried to use it with nothing to build on. It's like your mate has windows on his pc so you go to the files try and copy it to use on your own pc. It wont work. You have the template but there is no coding for it to work. We have no identity as a club, none whatsoever. Those running it do not, IMO, have the first idea of the industry in which the business is operating. They have tried to implement a solution without laying the groundwork for that solution to be a success . And as we have continued failure and stumble from one chaos to the next they do not understand why it is failing and just continue to try and implement it. There is nothing there at the club and that is a big big worry because there needs to be, and quick or else we are going further down. Under Ellis we had an identity. Maybe people did not like it or agree with it but we knew what we were and worked to it. He never invested to go beyond and restricted what we could have been but we had an identity. Under Lerner I couldn't tell you what we stand for. Proud History Bright Future was the strapline used. Fine, tell me what the bright future is, what we stand for and how you are going to achieve it. he never has. Part of that is because I dont think he ever knew. It was mostly superficial I think. I suspect he came in thought he could make an initial investment in a business that was underachieving and could achieve more and that it would be easy. There was never any detail, or clarity on the journey. Just come in spend a bit it will be easy and then sit back and wait for the success. Largely he had a manager that he could rely on for that but he left and his managerial apppintments since have not been able to as he has tried to be more involved , restricted the investment but still without the clear identity. What does Aston Villa stand for? What does it mean? We can't answer that as fans and how bad is that? The employees and those charged with running it cant answer it either and they need to be able to. good post and must admit I'd never really thought of it from the smaller teams have got better viewpoint .... the difference is we got decimated by selling our big name players , players that we purchased rather than developed in the main ... where as Southampton just seem to be produce more youngsters to fill the gap .... Gen K and Lerner may have been fed the line about how great our academy was and bought it hook line and sinker perhaps ? I think Garde may re-structure the club in a way that GT did first time around , to some extent that he wont keep us up will take him off Arsenal's radar for a while whilst he does that over the next few years 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 21, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted January 21, 2016 On 1/18/2016 at 20:43, TRO said: The interesting bit about Leicester is that it has been mooted they have copied the Aston villa 1981 model. Mooted by who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 23 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: good post and must admit I'd never really thought of it from the smaller teams have got better viewpoint .... the difference is we got decimated by selling our big name players , players that we purchased rather than developed in the main ... where as Southampton just seem to be produce more youngsters to fill the gap .... Gen K and Lerner may have been fed the line about how great our academy was and bought it hook line and sinker perhaps ? I think Garde may re-structure the club in a way that GT did first time around , to some extent that he wont keep us up will take him off Arsenal's radar for a while whilst he does that over the next few years We should have poached southamptons coaches years ago in my opinion. this is the club that produced walcott and bale as youngsters. southampton are a club i admire greatly. they got relegated to league one and then bounced straight back. If relegation for a season means we can get success like southampton long term then so be it. Would rather that than aiming for 17th each season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 21, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted January 21, 2016 Southampton do benefit from a huge catchment area to be fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted January 21, 2016 Moderator Share Posted January 21, 2016 On 1/18/2016 at 11:48, Stevo985 said: Assuming you're just talking about share equity, as in ownership of the club, Randy owns 100%. He is the sole owner of all the shares. I'd be very surprised if he gave some of that away to a new chairman. Incentives yes, absolutely I'm sure Hollis has plenty built into his contract. But I'd be very surprised if any of them were shares in Aston Villa. If Randy had given up sole ownership of the club I would imagine we'd have heard about it. I don't know if it's a requirement, I'm just saying it would be news. They dropped two divisions to achieve the 'success' of being where we were 6 years ago. I'm not seeing the attraction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 21, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted January 21, 2016 19 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: They dropped two divisions to achieve the 'success' of being where we were 6 years ago. I'm not seeing the attraction. Did you quote the wrong post here? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 The interesting bit about Leicester is that it has been mooted they have copied the Aston villa 1981 model. Mooted by who? I saw it in a national paper to be fair. Can't remember which, it was open opposite me on the train. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 21, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted January 21, 2016 I wasn't being confrontational, I was genuinely interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 29 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I wasn't being confrontational, I was genuinely interested. TRO is a leading proponent of this theory. I had a "discussion" with him as to the exact nature of this lost blueprint for PL success - basically it seems to boil down to "recruiting the right players and coaching them well" plus obviously "hard work and desire" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) Is it tonight that Hollis & Fox are at a fans meeting but because of a prior appointment can only be there for 45 minutes? If so I commend both of them for moving their diaries around so they can attend this evening if only for a short time and really shows how highly both men regard our fanbase! or The want to limit the amount of difficult questions they are asked for which they will have no useful answers. Wonder how much spin and bullshit they will spout? Edited January 21, 2016 by mykeyb spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) 6 hours ago, Stevo985 said: Mooted by who? I have read it from a few journalists, but what difference does it make, its an opinion that a few others have and I see the similarity. I never thought it relevant to record who said it. why does it seem so important to you?.....who? Edited January 21, 2016 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, VillaCas said: TRO is a leading proponent of this theory. I had a "discussion" with him as to the exact nature of this lost blueprint for PL success - basically it seems to boil down to "recruiting the right players and coaching them well" plus obviously "hard work and desire" Well considering it is declared as such a basic fundamental flaw that everyone knows about.....you must have missed it, because I haven't seen a post where you have highlighted it....and as a club we have been unable to correct it/address it. It seems the simple things in football you miss and subsequently have difficulty identifying them .....VC its a simple game don't try to complicate it by trying to be clever. I have to say, your sarcasm is quite comical.... and I do enjoy it, despite our differences. I was merely highlighting the moments in our history when we have done the things others are doing now.....before you roll out the old chesnut" its different now" implying without the USA Defence budget we might as well throw the towel in. I can't be bothered to go in to chapter and verse about blue prints and road maps,Templates and processes......(its football not solving the Syrian crisis)most discerning fans knew what we did around that time.....and we haven't been doing it for c10 years......wouldn't to be prudent it at least take a look at past successes and identify good practice. Most of anyones success is the people they employ and retain.....and we have been pretty shabby at dealing with that....put that in your blueprint. Incidently, don't belittle "hard work and desire" as if its some kind of given that all teams do.....because they don't.....and I have seen posts on here where fans have said at least we worked hard and we simply haven't.....not in terms of being effective to get results. You ask anybody that knows anything about Management....It can involve a whole bunch of management skills to unlease "Hard work and desire" .....I'm surprised I have to spell that out to you too. Edited January 21, 2016 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 3 hours ago, Stevo985 said: I wasn't being confrontational, I was genuinely interested. No your not Steveo, but some are. The problem is when some try to point score, are pedantic or just plain picky for the sake of it.... the point can get lost. I am not and never have implied that I am the font of all knowledge, But I have watched Villa for over 50 years and had the priviledge of indepth conversations with Andy Gray ( who was a personal friend) Graham Taylor and the man that impressed me most was Tony Barton, now there was man who mentioned things to me at the time that I never even considered...He was amazing. I was very close ( information wise)to the contretemps with Martin O'Neill and Nigel Reo Coker......and i was trying to explain on here what I knew but some unbelieving soul wanted to know how where when and why I knew .....implying my information was duff. I could and would not tell him and if they want to disbelieve.... fine. You could have some classified information about Villa, but i would never ask you to divulge how you got it.......I either have to believe you or I don't.....when you have been writing on here for some time me over 10 years, some folk get to trust you. I have no inside source now, so it doesn't matter, but in my experience the writers on here write with sincerity, so I believe what they write if its info or disagree if its a point that I am at odds with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 2 hours ago, VillaCas said: TRO is a leading proponent of this theory. I had a "discussion" with him as to the exact nature of this lost blueprint for PL success - basically it seems to boil down to "recruiting the right players and coaching them well" plus obviously "hard work and desire" Such a ridiculous thing to say ....."Get the right players"......."Hard work and desire" We all know we have all that tied down to a tee.....and we are the premier league exponents. its all the other stuff ....you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts