The Rémi Garde thread

[Richard]

Well bye Remi the only thing i can say about your time here was it was French.  What odds on him leaving before we get a win do you think?

[BOF]

1 minute ago, bobzy said:

Bang on.

I was talking to a mate about it the other day saying that Sherwood on a 3-year deal was the wrong choice - should've only been until the end of the season.  But then, after doing what he did, could we really justify getting rid of him?  Probably not.  He earned his chance, much to Villa's detriment.

The Catch-22 being that he wouldn't have taken the role in a short term capacity.  So the best case scenario was to get him in on the shortest deal he would agree to, and almost resign yourself to the inevitable compensation package that would shortly follow.  Unless you could put some performance related clauses in, like oh I dunno "If we're bottom of the league and regularly looking like a league 2 side that took a wrong turn".

[BOF]

5 minutes ago, Richard said:

Well bye Remi the only thing i can say about your time here was it was French.  What odds on him leaving before we get a win do you think?

EDIT : Actually "Long".  Gamble fail there for a mo'

[markavfc40]

I find it a little worrying reading this thread that people say they think Garde is doing better than Sherwood would have done or vice versa. I mean how low are we setting the bar here? Garde has taken 4 points from 9 games. Hasn't over seen a win in 10 league and cup games including games against fellow top flight shite in Norwich, Newcastle and Sunderland and to polish it off league 2 opposition..

It doesn't get much worse than this and the fact it may or may not have been slightly better or worse under Sherwood is irrelevant.

Bottom line for me is that no fan on here believed that things would not have improved after 10 games. Tom Fox and Randy Lerner didn't sack Sherwood and his coaching mob, paying them millions, thinking we will be serving up the shame shite in 10 games time and be three times as many points from safety as we were under the previous manager.

I can’t predict the future. None of us can. I don’t know if in 10 games time we will be playing decent football getting the odd good result or serving up the same crap. I can only judge based on the here and now and what has been served up over the last 10 games hasn't in the main been even close to good enough. The results have been shocking.

As I said earlier Remis CV doesn't warrant him being given a free hand regardless of results and performances. He hadn't done enough in the game prior to coming here and in terms of results and performances has had zero impact since he came here to warrant that level of faith. It would at best be blind faith.

I like the guy. I like how he talks but talking a good game is not enough. He has to get more out of this squad of players and soon. Even his much maligned predecessor got three wins in 12 league and cup games out of them.

[PompeyVillan]

His English is good, but he often says 'player' when he means 'players'. eg '... I have told this to the player. We have to work very hard, there are possibilities for us, the player know this.'

[Wainy316]

He seems fed up with Lerner leaving him to face all the questions regarding aspects he has no control of.  Randy really is a piece of shit.

[KHV]

4 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

 

As I said earlier Remis CV doesn't warrant him being given a free hand regardless of results and performances.

 

He did have to sell a lot of players at Lyon, however you also have to take into account that Ligue 1 is shit and even a Lyon selling it's best players is still one of the best teams in that league so I'm not sure how good his job actually was. Apart from PSG and Monaco briefly all the teams are shit. Marseille have also been shit for years too so it's not a great top flight league.

[BOF]

7 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I find it a little worrying reading this thread that people say they think Garde is doing better than Sherwood would have done or vice versa. I mean how low are we setting the bar here? Garde has taken 4 points from 9 games. Hasn't over seen a win in 10 league and cup games including games against fellow top flight shite in Norwich, Newcastle and Sunderland and to polish it off league 2 opposition..

 

It doesn't get much worse than this and the fact it may or may not have been slightly better or worse under Sherwood is irrelevant.

 

Bottom line for me is that no fan on here believed that things would not have improved after 10 games. Tom Fox and Randy Lerner didn't sack Sherwood and his coaching mob, paying them millions, thinking we will be serving up the shame shite in 10 games time and be three times as many points from safety as we were under the previous manager.

 

I can’t predict the future. None of us can. I don’t know if in 10 games time we will be playing decent football getting the odd good result or serving up the same crap. I can only judge based on the here and now and what has been served up over the last 10 games hasn't in the main been even close to good enough. The results have been shocking.

 

As I said earlier Remis CV doesn't warrant him being given a free hand regardless of results and performances. He hadn't done enough in the game prior to coming here and in terms of results and performances has had zero impact since he came here to warrant that level of faith. It would at best be blind faith.

 

I like the guy. I like how he talks but talking a good game is not enough. He has to get more out of this squad of players and soon. Even his much maligned predecessor got three wins in 12 league and cup games out of them.

 

I don't particularly disagree with any of that, and the most pertinent part of it where our 2 points of view coalesce is that because 2 managers have essentially served up very similar shades of shite, where (subjectively) both managers have differing levels of experience and success* is that maybe, just maybe these players are every bit as 'good' as their league position and points haul suggests.

If someone was to accept that as being the case, you then can't really turn around and criticise the manager.  He has little to work with.  At best, from this point onwards you might maintain the deficit to 17th, but to actually turn it around would require CL-esque results, and I don't see a Riyad Mahrez in our squad.

 

 

* I accept that Garde's isn't the most expansive of CVs, but what is there is good.

[KHV]

7 minutes ago, BOF said:

 

 

* I accept that Garde's isn't the most expansive of CVs, but what is there is good.

Is it really? A Lyon team that sells it big name players is still good enough enough to be top five in Ligue 1 IMO which is exactly where he got them.

[bobzy]

9 minutes ago, KHV said:

Is it really? A Lyon team that sells it big name players is still good enough enough to be top five in Ligue 1 IMO which is exactly where he got them.

Do you watch Ligue 1 or just heading down the route of "it's shit and easy to do well in"?

Not criticising as I don't watch Ligue 1, but I have no idea how his Lyon team was back then or any of the circumstances surrounding the club.  I always find it surprising that a lot of Villa fans seem to have really good knowledge of, for example, the recent history of the French top flight.

[Stevo985]

1 minute ago, bobzy said:

Do you watch Ligue 1 or just heading down the route of "it's shit and easy to do well in"?

Not criticising as I don't watch Ligue 1, but I have no idea how his Lyon team was back then or any of the circumstances surrounding the club.  I always find it surprising that a lot of Villa fans seem to have really good knowledge of, for example, the recent history of the French top flight.

The Lyon fans wouldn't hold him in such high regard if he'd only done the bare minimum.

[praisedmambo]

What is the team that played against Sunderland worth in transfer fees now: 

• 01 Guzan
• 21 Hutton Booked (Sinclair)
• 04 Richards
• 16 Lescott
• 43 Cissokho
• 07 Bacuna
• 08 Gueye
• 17 Veretout
• 25 Gil Booked
• 39 Gestede Booked
• 40 Grealish (Traore) 

 

Last season we at least also had Benteke, Delph and Cleverley — all three were arguably our best players in the second half of the season. Plus, Vlaar too. We are suffering through Lerner's cost cutting and it's been coming for years now. We've been getting closer to relegation each season and each season we've continued to invest paltry sums into our squad. With a decent striker the level of Benteke, someone ready for the prem, I'm sure we would have had a few more points and we may have been in touch with Sunderland and Newcastle—that's about on par with where we've been in the previous seasons. 

 

How anyone can blame this on Garde is beyond me. I think this because I genuinely think the problem is we have a championship-level (at best) team. How many of those players actually have experience in their correct positions in the prem? Guzan, Hutton, Cissokho (he's only been back for one game) and Lescott—that's **** insane. If you think that on top of that the rest are all at best average or at a push still finding their feet in the league we were destined for a 20th place humiliation. Every few seasons there is a team that has been run badly and now it's us—we're up this year and we're possibly one of the worst examples ever. 

 

Every season the fans turn on the manager, from Houllier to Garde—but all this is the owner's fault imo. He and whoever represents him have made countless bad decisions and have failed to invest at the appropriate times. I understood the cost cutting when we were losing £50million a year, but you have to be sensible and reinvest every now and again. Our net outlay over the previous three summers has caused all of these problems. 

Edited January 11, 2016 by praisedmambo

[KHV]

Just now, bobzy said:

Do you watch Ligue 1 or just heading down the route of "it's shit and easy to do well in"?

Not criticising as I don't watch Ligue 1, but I have no idea how his Lyon team was back then or any of the circumstances surrounding the club.  I always find it surprising that a lot of Villa fans seem to have really good knowledge of, for example, the recent history of the French top flight.

It's not a great league and until PSG and Monaco went a bit mad with transfers not a very high quality. Everyone speaks about how Garde dealt with high turnovers of players year in year out and a lot of players leaving. He finished 5th in his last season and walked out. They also lost another 9 players that summer so again had a high player turnover. New guy came in and they finished 2nd

[markavfc40]

43 minutes ago, BOF said:

I don't particularly disagree with any of that, and the most pertinent part of it where our 2 points of view coalesce is that because 2 managers have essentially served up very similar shades of shite, where (subjectively) both managers have differing levels of experience and success* is that maybe, just maybe these players are every bit as 'good' as their league position and points haul suggests.

If someone was to accept that as being the case, you then can't really turn around and criticise the manager.  He has little to work with.  At best, from this point onwards you might maintain the deficit to 17th, but to actually turn it around would require CL-esque results, and I don't see a Riyad Mahrez in our squad.

 

 

* I accept that Garde's isn't the most expansive of CVs, but what is there is good.

Brain I fully accept what you are saying and partially agree with you. This is a very poor squad of players. Worse than Sunderland’s, not for me no and certainly not 7 points worse. Likewise this squad of players is not 15 points worse than Norwich, 21 worse than Watford, 18 worse than West Brom, 13 worse than Bournemouth. It is poor but it is not as bad as 8 points from 20 games. Therefore that leads me to the conclusion that both managers have failed to get the best out of what they have at their disposal.

I feel I have been quite fortunate in one way during our last handful of seasons of struggle in that I never got to the stage of despising McLeish, Lambert or Sherwood. I was desperate for them all to do well and as personalities although each one differed I didn't mind any of them and I genuinely got the impression that they all did their best. Likewise with Garde I genuinely like the guy. I know that some supporters despise Sherwood though, and I fully understand why, and that it is then human nature to want to give his successor as much grace as possible to further prove how useless the guy was and I guess to push most of our current woes on to him.

Now I’d totally accept Sherwood had a hand in assembling this squad. I’d totally accept that he had a big hand in many of them being devoid of confidence when Garde arrived. As a club though you have to bring in a manager to suit the circumstances. A manager that can quickly turn players confidence around, a manager that can get every sinew out of a poor squad of players and maybe make up for a lack of ability by quickly organising them into something like an effective unit and getting them to give their all. On the evidence so far Garde hasn't been the man to do that and whilst acknowledging what he inherited I am judging Garde on what he has done and for me, despite not expecting anything close to miracles, so far that hasn't been anywhere near good enough.

 

Edited January 11, 2016 by markavfc40

[sne]

I'm not 100% on the exact details, but.

Lyon made a massive clear out / cost cutting from 2008 and forward getting rid of their best most expensive players to be able to finance their new stadium which will be ready this spring I think.

Garde was manager during this time and did as good as can be expected.

As for how he's doing here I'm disappointed so far. Gestede and Sinclair are useless and will never create anything. As long as he insists with playing them we will not win, he must see this.

[bobzy]

13 minutes ago, KHV said:

It's not a great league and until PSG and Monaco went a bit mad with transfers not a very high quality. Everyone speaks about how Garde dealt with high turnovers of players year in year out and a lot of players leaving. He finished 5th in his last season and walked out. They also lost another 9 players that summer so again had a high player turnover. New guy came in and they finished 2nd

"No, I don't watch it" would've sufficed

[BOF]

4 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

Brain I fully accept what you are saying and partially agree with you. This is a very poor squad of players. Worse than Sunderland’s, not for me no and certainly not 7 points worse. Likewise this squad of players is not 15 points worse than Norwich, 21 worse than Watford, 18 worse than West Brom, 13 worse than Bournemouth. It is poor but it is not a bad as 8 points from 20 games. Therefore that leads me to the conclusion that both managers have failed to get the best out of what they have at their disposal.

I feel I have been quite fortunate in one way during our last handful of seasons of struggle in that I I never got to the stage of despising McLeish, Lambert or Sherwood. I was desperate for them all to do well and as personalities although each one differed I didn't mind any of them and I genuinely got the impression that they all did their best. Likewise with Garde I genuinely like the guy. I know that some supporters despise Sherwood though, and I fully understand why, and that it is then human nature to want to give his successor as much grace as possible to further prove how useless the guy was and I guess to push most of our current woes on to him.

Now I’d totally accept Sherwood had a hand in assembling this squad. I’d totally accept that he had a big hand in many of them being devoid of confidence when Garde arrived. As a club though you have to bring in a manager to suit the circumstances. A manager that can quickly turn players confidence around, a manager that can get every sinew out of a poor squad of players and maybe make up for a lack of ability by quickly organising them into an effective unit and getting them to give their all. On the evidence so far Garde hasn't been the man to do that and whilst acknowledging what he inherited I am judging Garde on what he has done and for me, despite not expecting anything close to miracles, so far that hasn't been anywhere near good enough.

 

Good post and you make a lot of sense.  I agree that on paper there is no way this squad could be 13pts worse than Bournemouth or 21 worse than Watford for example.  I'm not even arguing the point.  The only thing I could say to that is that we are currently a living, breathing representation of what happens when you change too much too soon, and not just that, but tear the quality heart out of the side at the same time (albeit not by choice).  Bournemouth are an example of what you can achieve with stability, whereas I struggle to even explain how Watford are doing what they're doing.  I suppose they changed it up from a position of strength and they kept it all sailing nicely along.  We, on the other hand, are the perfect storm of bad ideas.  I'm going to contradict a lot of what I've said up to this point and state that I actually think many of these new players; these individuals; are good players.  Premier League quality players.  I just think they were brought in to what amounts to being the worse scenario and the worst set of circumstances you could put a player into.  A tipping point has been reached at Villa where even quality players will not get you out of it, because it requires the familiarity that only comes from the time that we no longer have and the confidence that has long since evaporated.

[Nabby]

12 minutes ago, sne said:

I'm not 100% on the exact details, but.

Lyon made a massive clear out / cost cutting from 2008 and forward getting rid of their best most expensive players to be able to finance their new stadium which will be ready this spring I think.

Garde was manager during this time and did as good as can be expected.

As for how he's doing here I'm disappointed so far. Gestede and Sinclair are useless and will never create anything. As long as he insists with playing them we will not win, he must see this.

Stadium was opened and used this week , looks very impressive

[chrissmith921]

9 minutes ago, BOF said:

Good post and you make a lot of sense.  I agree that on paper there is no way this squad could be 13pts worse than Bournemouth or 21 worse than Watford for example.  I'm not even arguing the point.  The only thing I could say to that is that we are currently a living, breathing representation of what happens when you change too much too soon, and not just that, but tear the quality heart out of the side at the same time (albeit not by choice).  Bournemouth are an example of what you can achieve with stability, whereas I struggle to even explain how Watford are doing what they're doing.  I suppose they changed it up from a position of strength and they kept it all sailing nicely along.  We, on the other hand, are the perfect storm of bad ideas.  I'm going to contradict a lot of what I've said up to this point and state that I actually think many of these new players; these individuals; are good players.  Premier League quality players.  I just think they were brought in to what amounts to being the worse scenario and the worst set of circumstances you could put a player into.  A tipping point has been reached at Villa where even quality players will not get you out of it, because it requires the familiarity that only comes from the time that we no longer have and the confidence that has long since evaporated.

Difference between us and the sides above us - they have goalscorers.

That's why I think we'll see Norwich and Newcastle come with us - they don't have the out and out single goal scorers, whereas Sunderland will win games they don't deserve thanks to Defoe - same for Swansea and Gomis/Ayew, and Bournemouth with their riches now will save themselves.

 

 

[TRO]

3 hours ago, VillaCas said:

For me this is spot-on analysis

I have little interest in whether Garde is better or worse than Sherwood. I do however buy into the point well-made in earlier posts, that initially it looked like the players were ok but Sherwood was a poor manager. Whereas now with a new manager in charge it seems to becoming clearer that the players are just not up to it.  Either way Sherwood had to go, if for no other reason than he oversaw the construction of the current squad

Garde's background is decent but in his time with us there is little evidence yet that he is the right man for the massive task ahead.  However there is some mitigation with the tools he has been given to work with - Guzan is clearly the worst keeper in the PL (but sadly the best keeper at AV),  Hutton, Richardson and Cissoko are well past their sell-by dates and easily the poorest full-back combinations in the league.  It is tragic luck that Amavi has such an extended injury.  Richards is one of the most athletically gifted players in the league but is neither a CB nor a FB, our holding midfielders are relatively lightweight and because our defence is so poor, our attacking midfielders are spending far more time defending (for which they are massively unsuited) than attacking. Up front we have no options.  Gestede is the poorest CF I've seen at VP, I'd rather have Jordan Bowery, Gabby doesn't score goals, Sinclair runs but offers little else, Ayew is the best of the bunch but is more a second striker than leader of the line.

Okore, Vertout, Amavi, Westwood, Sanchez and possiblly Gana, if they can all be persuaded to stay can form the basis of a new squad but 10-15 new players are needed.

Personally, I'll make my mind up at the end of the season whether Garde is the right man to entrust the crucial rebuilding task too - I hope that he is because we need some consistency if we are to be successful

I understand the anger surrounding the situation but personally the calls for Garde's head (beginning 5 games in) is short-sighted, ill-advised and does nothing at all to help the situation.  I will be getting behind him and looking again in the close season

That is an interesting read/analysis and most of it has been highlighted on match of the day.

I think there is much more wrong than we actually know and Paul Lambert touched on the point that there is more wrong than the managers and the players....insinuating there are other things....but that needs to be fully researched/explained.

I also think it is brave of Remi Garde to direct the searching questions to other members of staff, in order to get some accuracy.

I must admit I am puzzled to see some of the problems ( mainly organizational)under Lambert still rearing their ugly head under Garde having TS in between.

It is all a bit of a buggers muddle, so I wouldn't like to dig my heels in on certain issues, because I think there is so many of them.

This job was never a tweak here and a tweak there, the guy looks shell shocked.....But we must settle with someone for the longish haul to sort this out.

Edited January 11, 2016 by TRO