Richard Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 1 minute ago, mwj said: Its getting boring now Richard. We all know where you stand. Go and say that to 100% of the posters on this site. We know where everyone stands . It's a site for us to debate our opinions that we have been doing for ages. You dont like my posts, they bore you then **** ignore me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stevo985 Posted January 11, 2016 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted January 11, 2016 1 minute ago, Richard said: This is something I just dont get. Drop them then, drop the **** and play a bunch of kids who will do as they are told. Although if professional footballers arent listening to you I'd argue it is managerial weakness. Even so we have **** all to lose not one thing do we have to lose , we are bottom we will remain bottom and we will go down bottom I absolutely believe that. So drop all these underperforming pisstaking bastards and play kids who have something to prove and are desperate for first team footnball and may just want to get back to the premiership in the first team. And I'm sure if he dropped the entire first team and played a load of kids, and lost, people like you would be really supportive of his decision 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted January 11, 2016 Moderator Share Posted January 11, 2016 2 minutes ago, Richard said: Look Sherwood was useless and had to go but that does not mean Garde is any better because he is not Sherwood. I agree with the logic. It doesn't automatically follow that manager B will be better than manager A just because he's not manager A. I accept that, and that's not the basis on which I am claiming that Garde is better, or rather could be better. But I don't think manager B in this case has made the mistakes that Tim made. Whether that's because he hasn't been given the time to make them or whether it's because he is a better manager with better judgement we don't yet know. But it would be premature IMHO at this point to get rid. We're down anyway. If we continue to go down with a whimper for the remainder of the season then there's a discussion to be had in the summer as to whether he stays on. But for now I give him the January window and the rest of the season to try and turn it around, otherwise it's all a bit knee-jerk. 2 minutes ago, Richard said: But in all seriousness by any measurable means there is no way anyone can argue that he is vastly better than Sherwood and retain seriousness. He has yet to prove he is vastly better or vastly worse. The point is to give him the time to do his own job. He deserves that at least, moreso while being in the tumultuous environment that he finds himself in. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted January 11, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted January 11, 2016 Here we are again, divisions over whether we should give an abysmally performing manager more time or sack him after a couple of months I really don't see what chaning the manager is going to do for this group of players. I mean, a new manager woudl have to assess the squad and then try and get players in, a third of Jan is gone already. It's not even slightly practical to sack Garde now. A lot of the reason why we haven't got results with Garde is the players insisting on playing for 95% of a game to a reasonable level and then seemingly totally forgetting how to be a footballer for 5-10 mins. Bad enough if you have one player like that, we look to have at least half a dozen at the moment. They contrive to do badly DESPITE being seemingly well prepared by Garde. Even if Garde gets massive backing I'm not sure where he is going to find the players he needs in one window. We need 2 full backs, a centre back, a goalkeeper, a defensive midfielder and at least one striker. That's 6/7 players. That's not going to happen. So, that leads us to him needing the summer too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Just now, Richard said: This is something I just dont get. Drop them then, drop the **** and play a bunch of kids who will do as they are told. Although if professional footballers arent listening to you I'd argue it is managerial weakness. Even so we have **** all to lose not one thing do we have to lose , we are bottom we will remain bottom and we will go down bottom I absolutely believe that. So drop all these underperforming pisstaking bastards and play kids who have something to prove and are desperate for first team footnball and may just want to get back to the premiership in the first team. Richard, bear in mind its only my take on things.I could be wrong. It takes a brave call to play the kids and of course what we must be mindful of is harming their careers. However, I will say this If there is one way to unite the fans behind the team.....this is it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 for all the millions of issues crucial individual player errors are killing us. not sure how you legislate against them without surgery. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 1 minute ago, TRO said: Richard, bear in mind its only my take on things.I could be wrong. It takes a brave call to play the kids and of course what we must be mindful of is harming their careers. However, I will say this If there is one way to unite the fans behind the team.....this is it. All any of us have on here is "our take". Whether it is informed or not we are not present during the conversations taking place at the club. It is brave but we have nothing to lose do we? It may harm their careers , it may make them but we have to see one way or another dont we? Anyway what are we talking about in terms of dropping people? I'd say there are about 4 I'd retain in the squad: Veretout, Ayew, Gil and Okore. I'd drop the rest and I think about 90% of fans would agree, you are right it would unite and if it is the case that they are taking the piss he'd get my support to drop them. He has to do something and at least playing the kids gives them the experience they are going to need next season as I wouldnt mind betting they are going to get lods of game time anyway 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted January 11, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted January 11, 2016 Just now, TRO said: for all the millions of issues crucial individual player errors are killing us. not sure how you legislate against them without surgery. fine them a limb, they'll only do it once Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Whatever you think, the facts are that his record is virtually identical to Sherwood's. The main difference people point to is that he seems a more likeable character than Sherwood and speaks well in public. Arguably the actual football we are seeing on the field us getting worse however. That's not the main difference people point to, but it is a factor of course. The fact Garde is not a monumental arsehole will obviously mean people may give him the benefit of the doubt in certain situations. "Arguably" being the word. I certainly don't think the football is worse than it was under Sherwood (this season)Well, whether a person is or is not an "arsehole" is entirely a matter of opinion - and rather emotive and prejudiced opinion at that. Certainly not the basis of which to judge a football manager - many of the greatest would have got their "arsehole" badge with ease. I find it hard to think of performances worse than Sunderland, Norwich and Wycombe this season and, as each match has unfolded, Garde had looked increasingly lost and out of control. But, hey, if you think things are going swimmingly at present, fine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Jareth said: I think Remi needs his preffered coaches in pronto. The bullet proof ones.....already mentioned. ps ....see Neil he has the number. Edited January 11, 2016 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lloydxmas Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Surely wait until we are mathematically relegated, and then publically shame everyone, then play the kids to get the used to next season ? Maybe Gardner has been sent to Forest for this exact reason. That's what i'd do anyway Any player dropped after our relegation is confirmed has been one of the unprofessional ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabby Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 9 minutes ago, romavillan said: Here we are again, divisions over whether we should give an abysmally performing manager more time or sack him after a couple of months I really don't see what chaning the manager is going to do for this group of players. I mean, a new manager woudl have to assess the squad and then try and get players in, a third of Jan is gone already. It's not even slightly practical to sack Garde now. A lot of the reason why we haven't got results with Garde is the players insisting on playing for 95% of a game to a reasonable level and then seemingly totally forgetting how to be a footballer for 5-10 mins. Bad enough if you have one player like that, we look to have at least half a dozen at the moment. They contrive to do badly DESPITE being seemingly well prepared by Garde. Even if Garde gets massive backing I'm not sure where he is going to find the players he needs in one window. We need 2 full backs, a centre back, a goalkeeper, a defensive midfielder and at least one striker. That's 6/7 players. That's not going to happen. So, that leads us to him needing the summer too... The other problem is we are miles behind and buying players may improve us but the ones above us are hardly standing still.Bournmouth are spending close to 20 mil on strikers only proven in the championship for example.Norwich are spending similar money , reports are Newcastle are spending 20 odd mil on Shelvey and Saivet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 11, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted January 11, 2016 (edited) 6 minutes ago, briny_ear said: Well, whether a person is or is not an "arsehole" is entirely a matter of opinion - and rather emotive and prejudiced opinion at that. Certainly not the basis of which to judge a football manager - many of the greatest would have got their "arsehole" badge with ease. I find it hard to think of performances worse than Sunderland, Norwich and Wycombe this season and, as each match has unfolded, Garde had looked increasingly lost and out of control. But, hey, if you think things are going swimmingly at present, fine. I have to say, you are incredibly good at quoting a post and either misinterpreting it or taking it completely out of context. It's almost deliberate. I never said being or not being an arsehole effects a manager's ability and should be used to judge a manager. I merely said it makes sense that people might be more lenient with Garde because he wasn't an arsehole. It's easier to give somebody the benefit of the doubt if you actually like them. Like I said, there are plenty of other differences between the two, it's you who (wrongly) highlighted this at being the main one. West Brom, Liverpool, Chelsea, Swansea, FA Cup Final, Burnley, Southampton (last season), Stoke. There were plenty of god awful performances under the previous manager. If you cherry pick the bad games then of course you're going to make Garde look bad. I haven't once said things are going swimmingly. Like I said, your ability to completely misinterpret posts is an artform. Edited January 11, 2016 by Stevo985 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Sherwood was and still is a clown. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I merely said it makes sense that people might be more lenient with Garde because he wasn't an arsehole. It's easier to give somebody the benefit of the doubt if you actually like them. This is why I think we need to try and take personalities out of it though mate when judging whether we think a manager is doing a good job or not or should be given x amount of time. The point around whether Sherwood is an arsehole is one of personal opinion and I guess could be up for debate. Remi Garde comes across as a nice bloke but then again he could be going home and verbally abusing his missus. I don't know but as you have rightly acknowledged it has f all to do with his ability as a football manager. As it is very unlikely as a supporter we will know them personally, see them in training etc the only real way we can judge any manager is by what we see on the pitch. To that end the difference between Sherwood and Garde, in terms of results and performances so far this season, is so small it is insignificant. Edited January 11, 2016 by markavfc40 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 (edited) 52 minutes ago, romavillan said: fine them a limb, they'll only do it once we'd have a one legged team then.....however,we'd probably win an a*** kicking contest. Edited January 11, 2016 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dounavilla Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 This thread is deeeeep. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: Nobody has argued that. All anyone has argued is that he is an improvement, albeit not a massive one. You don't agree, that's fine. But don't put words in people's mouths to back up your own opinion. Really? Have I attributed that to anyone? Who's mouth have I put that in? I have merely said that I doubt anyone could say that he is measurably better and retain seriousness I have neither said or suggested anyone on here has or would say that. However, if you want to see an example of putting words in mouth then suggest you look no further than you later post........ 59 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: And I'm sure if he dropped the entire first team and played a load of kids, and lost, people like you would be really supportive of his decision Serves me right really for switching off ignore for a while. That'll learn me Edited January 11, 2016 by Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 9 minutes ago, dounavilla said: This thread is deeeeep. We're in deep do-do, fits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 You can't eat an Elephant in one bite......and on the surface it looks like we have a herd to devour. I really do want to get behind this guy....Fingers crossed just hoping /waiting to see a glimmer of improvement from somewhere. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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