Popular Post BOF Posted January 11, 2016 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted January 11, 2016 6 minutes ago, chrissmith921 said: Difference between us and the sides above us - they have goalscorers. That's why I think we'll see Norwich and Newcastle come with us - they don't have the out and out single goal scorers, whereas Sunderland will win games they don't deserve thanks to Defoe - same for Swansea and Gomis/Ayew, and Bournemouth with their riches now will save themselves. I agree. It's not a slight on Ayew because he has been much better than I initially thought he would be. But when all is said and done, when we're chewing over the fat at the end of the season, the biggest single reason we will have gone down is because we did not replace Benteke with a proven Premier League goalscorer. It didn't have to be a like for like. It didn't have to be 32 million worth. We just needed to buy a reliable Premier League striker with some of the money that came from the sale. We didn't do that. We chose to pad out the squad in other areas at the expense of the badly-lacking forward line, and now here we are bemoaning our inability to score goals, even in games where we can control the middle of the field or at the very least remain competitive for the majority of games. If only we had an Ighalo. And I dare say we could have had one if we'd enquired before the season started. He was not a main striker for them in their promotion campaign. But anyway, that's neither here nor there. The long and the short of it is that I agree with you. Our lack of a main goalscorer in a game where scoring goals wins you games is going to put us down. It won't be the only reason we go down, but if we'd plugged that gap in the summer we'd be in a damn sight better position than we are now. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 43 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: Brain I fully accept what you are saying and partially agree with you. This is a very poor squad of players. Worse than Sunderland’s, not for me no and certainly not 7 points worse. Likewise this squad of players is not 15 points worse than Norwich, 21 worse than Watford, 18 worse than West Brom, 13 worse than Bournemouth. It is poor but it is not as bad as 8 points from 20 games. Therefore that leads me to the conclusion that both managers have failed to get the best out of what they have at their disposal. I feel I have been quite fortunate in one way during our last handful of seasons of struggle in that I never got to the stage of despising McLeish, Lambert or Sherwood. I was desperate for them all to do well and as personalities although each one differed I didn't mind any of them and I genuinely got the impression that they all did their best. Likewise with Garde I genuinely like the guy. I know that some supporters despise Sherwood though, and I fully understand why, and that it is then human nature to want to give his successor as much grace as possible to further prove how useless the guy was and I guess to push most of our current woes on to him. Now I’d totally accept Sherwood had a hand in assembling this squad. I’d totally accept that he had a big hand in many of them being devoid of confidence when Garde arrived. As a club though you have to bring in a manager to suit the circumstances. A manager that can quickly turn players confidence around, a manager that can get every sinew out of a poor squad of players and maybe make up for a lack of ability by quickly organising them into something like an effective unit and getting them to give their all. On the evidence so far Garde hasn't been the man to do that and whilst acknowledging what he inherited I am judging Garde on what he has done and for me, despite not expecting anything close to miracles, so far that hasn't been anywhere near good enough. Its hard to argue with your reasoning, Mark. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 47 minutes ago, sne said: I'm not 100% on the exact details, but. Lyon made a massive clear out / cost cutting from 2008 and forward getting rid of their best most expensive players to be able to finance their new stadium which will be ready this spring I think. Garde was manager during this time and did as good as can be expected. I do wonder if the above and the fact he is french and we have a few french players was about as far as Fox looked when he was searching for someone to take over from Sherwood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 (edited) 17 minutes ago, BOF said: I agree. It's not a slight on Ayew because he has been much better than I initially thought he would be. But when all is said and done, when we're chewing over the fat at the end of the season, the biggest single reason we will have gone down is because we did not replace Benteke with a proven Premier League goalscorer. It didn't have to be a like for like. It didn't have to be 32 million worth. We just needed to buy a reliable Premier League striker with some of the money that came from the sale. We didn't do that. We chose to pad out the squad in other areas at the expense of the badly-lacking forward line, and now here we are bemoaning our inability to score goals, even in games where we can control the middle of the field or at the very least remain competitive for the majority of games. If only we had an Ighalo. And I dare say we could have had one if we'd enquired before the season started. He was not a main striker for them in their promotion campaign. But anyway, that's neither here nor there. The long and the short of it is that I agree with you. Our lack of a main goalscorer in a game where scoring goals wins you games is going to put us down. It won't be the only reason we go down, but if we'd plugged that gap in the summer we'd be in a damn sight better position than we are now. I agree, I like Ayew, but for me he is like an old fashioned inside forward.....good feet and threads strikers in.....but he hasn't got the deadly skills of a striker. I don't want to see another tall galloping gallut at no9......I want to see a striker that moves through the lines and works the defenders with good feet and receives off good feet like Gil & Ayew. There are players out there its having the will and permission to go and get them. Edited January 11, 2016 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 I never expected Remi to pull up trees....but i did expect to see a bit more organisation appear in defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 8 minutes ago, TRO said: .....But we must settle with someone for the longish haul to sort this out. I said as much around the time he was appointed .... but after 10 games I'm thinking I'd have more faith in someone like Moyes rebuilding us in the championship than Garde .... I appreciate the club is rotten but Garde has shown almost nothing since he's been here .... 10 games may be too early to write him off but surely he could have improved something in that time ? just a little glimmer of hope that he's the man ..... some flair play ? tighten the back line ? some fight ? .... other than some nice words in a press conference he's not really given us anything ... Garde has to start showing something to convince me (us) that he's the man to rebuild the club next season and bring us back up ....even if he promotes some young kids into the team now and tells the likes of Lescott , Richardson and Sinclair you'll never play for us again it would be a start , at least he would have done something and lets face it you can't finish lower than bottom of the table so we don't have anything to lose in doing so 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 3 minutes ago, mykeyb said: the fact he is french and we have a few french players was about as far as Fox looked I'd say that wasn't far wide of the mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 1 minute ago, tonyh29 said: I said as much around the time he was appointed .... but after 10 games I'm thinking I'd have more faith in someone like Moyes rebuilding us in the championship than Garde .... I appreciate the club is rotten but Garde has shown almost nothing since he's been here .... 10 games may be too early to write him off but surely he could have improved something in that time ? just a little glimmer of hope that he's the man ..... some flair play ? tighten the back line ? some fight ? .... other than some nice words in a press conference he's not really given us anything ... Garde has to start showing something to convince me (us) that he's the man to rebuild the club next season and bring us back up ....even if he promotes some young kids into the team now and tells the likes of Lescott , Richardson and Sinclair you'll never play for us again it would be a start , at least he would have done something and lets face it you can't finish lower than bottom of the table so we don't have anything to lose in doing so I accept every word of that. In my humble opinion.....I don't honestly know the extent of the damage.....This is serious **** in my view what I mean by that is, I can see the damage on matchday.....but I don't know how long is reasonable, to sort it out. something is much more wrong than we think.....crikey just as an example Gestede scored 22 goals last season, who's this guy, he doesn't look like scoring 22 in his career with us. We just can't keep changing managers until lady luck steps in......and I accept your point of seeing just a flicker of improvement, which is hard to detect. Some straight talking from B6 needs to be made.....even if its just to qwell the frustration because some how the players and fans need to be together to move forward. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted January 11, 2016 Moderator Share Posted January 11, 2016 As one of those who is defending Garde on here, to give it some balance I will say that the performance against Wycombe is the most worrying aspect of his tenure to date. I saw that game as an opportunity to give the first team a win and some amount of confidence. Not to mention an easier opponent in which to implement and demonstrate whatever plan was being put into place. But I saw nothing. He rested players too. So the chance to gel in a winning game was gone. But more than that, I didn't see a team that knew how to break a side down. We were woefully pedestrian and predictable. Many times during the 90 Wycombe looked like the side in the higher division (I stop short of calling either side the Premier League side because in reality neither of them are). We left gaps and made errors that in the Premier League would have been lapped up but which Wycombe were not able to capitalise on. If anything, that game showed me more than any other that we're not currently a Premier League side. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Billy McNeil was given too much time, so was Tommy Docherty. Thankfully Dr Jo wasnt, I appreciate that Remi has really been dealt a terrible hand but I genuinely cannot see how he can turn this round. We still dont seem to have any kind of game plan, he still persists in playing the same failed formation and refuses to even try alternatives from within the current squad. You cannot see where the next win is going to come from with him in charge at this point. Now we would gain nothing if sack him after such a short space of time but then do you let him bring in one or two players to at least show some kind of pretence that he is being backed? The next appointment has got to be absolutely spot on if we are to reclaim our premiership status at the first attempt and my faith in Lerner or Fox doing that is zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted January 11, 2016 Moderator Share Posted January 11, 2016 From my point of view, those of you who want him gone now must surely at the very least give him the January window to try and fix the gaps in the squad. We're down anyway, so changing him now won't keep us up. Given not just our league position but the extent to which we're bottom, the player market will pretty much take care of itself. By which I mean the good players will only come here on loan anyway. If we accept that ten games isn't enough then let's see what Garde can do with a transfer window if this squad is so unbalanced. Let him hopefully bring in a striker, a goalkeeper and a right back at the very least and see if we can turn some of our better performances into wins. I'd still like to go down with a bit of fight and pride. Play spoiler for the remainder of the season if possible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Look Sherwood was useless and had to go but that does not mean Garde is any better because he is not Sherwood. In fact it's pretty obvious he is not better. In fact, I'll repeat what I said yesterday, I am not sure why people expected anymore considering who has appointed him. The idiots in charge at the club do not see any error in the way they work, the culture or philosophy they have instilled or the kind of manager they want. As a result they get those decisions wrong and will continue to get them wrong. He is a poor manager , not because of their decision, he just is because the philosophy they are recruiting against is wrong and failed. We will not get a decent manager until it changes or they are replaced. Does that mean Garde has to go now? Well on one hand it will not make a blind bit of difference to the fortunes of the team. However on the other hand Tom Fox going for a 5th manager in just under 12 months does give him and Lerner a great deal of embarrassment and highlight their ineptitude in running the club. So really I can't be arsed if he goes or not. But in all seriousness by any measurable means there is no way anyone can argue that he is vastly better than Sherwood and retain seriousness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 The only people that can turn this around are the players. There's very little more a manager can do unless they are afforded considerable funds in January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 (edited) During the Wycombe game I was watching RG's face whenever the camera's picked it up. His expression (several times) was one of anger.....like they wasn't following his instructions.....but only he knows that. Managers have to support their players in public, but he looked like someone that wanted to scream his frustration from the rooftops too. Its all bloody tricky thats for sure. Ps I am drifting in to the mindset that no one knows what to do. Edited January 11, 2016 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 11, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted January 11, 2016 2 minutes ago, Richard said: But in all seriousness by any measurable means there is no way anyone can argue that he is vastly better than Sherwood and retain seriousness. Nobody has argued that. All anyone has argued is that he is an improvement, albeit not a massive one. You don't agree, that's fine. But don't put words in people's mouths to back up your own opinion. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwj Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 3 minutes ago, Richard said: Look Sherwood was useless and had to go but that does not mean Garde is any better because he is not Sherwood. In fact it's pretty obvious he is not better. In fact, I'll repeat what I said yesterday, I am not sure why people expected anymore considering who has appointed him. The idiots in charge at the club do not see any error in the way they work, the culture or philosophy they have instilled or the kind of manager they want. As a result they get those decisions wrong and will continue to get them wrong. He is a poor manager , not because of their decision, he just is because the philosophy they are recruiting against is wrong and failed. We will not get a decent manager until it changes or they are replaced. Does that mean Garde has to go now? Well on one hand it will not make a blind bit of difference to the fortunes of the team. However on the other hand Tom Fox going for a 5th manager in just under 12 months does give him and Lerner a great deal of embarrassment and highlight their ineptitude in running the club. So really I can't be arsed if he goes or not. But in all seriousness by any measurable means there is no way anyone can argue that he is vastly better than Sherwood and retain seriousness. Its getting boring now Richard. We all know where you stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 4 minutes ago, Richard said: Look Sherwood was useless and had to go but that does not mean Garde is any better because he is not Sherwood. In fact it's pretty obvious he is not better. In fact, I'll repeat what I said yesterday, I am not sure why people expected anymore considering who has appointed him. The idiots in charge at the club do not see any error in the way they work, the culture or philosophy they have instilled or the kind of manager they want. As a result they get those decisions wrong and will continue to get them wrong. He is a poor manager , not because of their decision, he just is because the philosophy they are recruiting against is wrong and failed. We will not get a decent manager until it changes or they are replaced. Does that mean Garde has to go now? Well on one hand it will not make a blind bit of difference to the fortunes of the team. However on the other hand Tom Fox going for a 5th manager in just under 12 months does give him and Lerner a great deal of embarrassment and highlight their ineptitude in running the club. So really I can't be arsed if he goes or not. But in all seriousness by any measurable means there is no way anyone can argue that he is vastly better than Sherwood and retain seriousness. One would be inclined to agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 I think Remi needs his preffered coaches in pronto. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 1 minute ago, TRO said: During the Wycombe game I was watching RG's face whenever the camera's picked it up. His expression (several times) was one of anger.....like they wasn't following his instructions.....but only he knows that. Managers have to support their players in public, but he looked like someone that wanted to scream his frustration from the rooftops too. Its all bloody tricky thats for sure. This is something I just dont get. Drop them then, drop the **** and play a bunch of kids who will do as they are told. Although if professional footballers arent listening to you I'd argue it is managerial weakness. Even so we have **** all to lose not one thing do we have to lose , we are bottom we will remain bottom and we will go down bottom I absolutely believe that. So drop all these underperforming pisstaking bastards and play kids who have something to prove and are desperate for first team footnball and may just want to get back to the premiership in the first team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 1 minute ago, Jareth said: I think Remi needs his preffered coaches in pronto. Judging by fan anger, he'll have to go for bullet proof coaches next time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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