Genie Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, villa4europe said: 2 assault rifles and a pistol I remember the guy who shot all the people at a concert from his Las Vegas hotel room balcony. I just looked up what he was carrying Quote His arsenal of weapons, associated equipment and ammunition included fourteen AR-15 rifles (some of which were equipped with bump stocks[d] and twelve of which had 100-round magazines), eight AR-10-type rifles, a bolt-action rifle, and a revolver.[21] He legally bought 33 guns in the 12 months prior to the shooting. There is just no justification for anyone to have that much firepower. Soldiers in the army don’t even have access to that many guns. It’s absolutely bonkers. Even if you allowed everyone in America to have 1 gun it would reduce the amount of guns by about 95%. Edited May 25, 2022 by Genie 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il_serpente Posted May 25, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted May 25, 2022 All of you talking about how the US is a democracy and the public could elect pro-reform legislators and presidents since the majority favor some form of gun control are mistaken. The “democracy” here skews political power to smaller and more rural states by giving each state 2 senators regardless of population and by having a winner take all system for president in the Electoral College (how Bush and Trump won despite losing national popular vote). Rural folk are the most likely to oppose gun control, and they have disproportionate say in who runs the country. Add to that the filibuster process, that effectively requires a supermajority to pass legislation that a significant number of senators are strongly opposed to, and there’s unfortunately not a lot that can be done until some of the gun lovers decide they are willing to be a little inconvenienced in order to reduce the number of mass shootings. My son is starting university in Canada this fall. We may be joining him there in a couple of years if things keep going down the shitter here politically. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted May 25, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted May 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Genie said: I remember the guy who shot all the people at a concert from his Las Vegas hotel room balcony. I just looked up what he was carrying He legally bought 33 guns in the 12 months prior to the shooting. There is just no justification for anyone to have that much firepower. Soldiers in the army don’t even have access to that many guns. It’s absolutely bonkers. Even if you allowed everyone in America to have 1 gun it would reduce the amount of guns by about 95%. He had so many guns he had to take multiple trips to pick them up and drop them off in his room. And he had tens of thousands of rounds of ammunition. Completely nuts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lochheads twin Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 I think being allowed to acquire automatic weapons has nothing to do with democracy!! These guys no longer live on the frontier of the "civilised" world. How they think that changing this article of their constitution would weaken their democracy or be an infringement of their god given rights is way beyond me. It's the first time I have dropped onto this topic and the fact that it runs to 73 pages says a lot. I am sure very little has change in the 7 years since Marka Ragnos first opened it which makes it very sad. How many outrages since then? No sensible person can think that arming the teachers is the answer. we all know this country is far from perfect but is is one thing we can justifiably preach about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingram85 Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 Maybe the constitution needs updating. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted May 25, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted May 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Ingram85 said: Maybe the constitution needs updating. Goddamn pinko commie woke lib you shut yer mouth...! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 6 minutes ago, Ingram85 said: Maybe the constitution needs updating. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingram85 Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 At this point it’s like UK people following daft laws from hundreds of years ago like legally being able to shoot a Scotsman on a bridge in hull at 12 noon with a bow and arrow. It’s just nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Ingram85 said: Maybe the constitution needs updating. Yep. Now they just need progressives to win 2/3 of both chambers of Congress and 3/4 of all state legislatures, and they can get to it. Should be able to wrap that up by next Wednesday Edited May 25, 2022 by El Zen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 10 minutes ago, Ingram85 said: Maybe the constitution needs updating. Its the 2nd amendment that needs changing and they can't do that How old is that Jim Jeffries stand up now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted May 25, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted May 25, 2022 15 minutes ago, villa4europe said: How old is that Jim Jeffries stand up now? 20 minutes old by me on the previous page. I thought it was a vaguely original thought but clearly seeded by that JJ bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 1 hour ago, il_serpente said: All of you talking about how the US is a democracy and the public could elect pro-reform legislators and presidents since the majority favor some form of gun control are mistaken. The “democracy” here skews political power to smaller and more rural states by giving each state 2 senators regardless of population and by having a winner take all system for president in the Electoral College (how Bush and Trump won despite losing national popular vote). Rural folk are the most likely to oppose gun control, and they have disproportionate say in who runs the country. Add to that the filibuster process, that effectively requires a supermajority to pass legislation that a significant number of senators are strongly opposed to, and there’s unfortunately not a lot that can be done until some of the gun lovers decide they are willing to be a little inconvenienced in order to reduce the number of mass shootings. My son is starting university in Canada this fall. We may be joining him there in a couple of years if things keep going down the shitter here politically. I understand how the federal system works in the US, it’s very similar to my own country Australia. There is an over representation from ‘small’ states and vice versa. However it is still Americans voting for the current outcome, and they will continue to willingly do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il_serpente Posted May 25, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted May 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, LondonLax said: I understand how the federal system works in the US, it’s very similar to my own country Australia. There is an over representation from ‘small’ states and vice versa. However it is still Americans voting for the current outcome, and they will continue to willingly do so. Understood. But some were having trouble understanding why gun control can't get through or legislators who favor it can't get elected when a majority of Americans favor at least some form of restriction, and the answer is that majority doesn't rule here when something like 35% of the population gets to choose the same number of senators as the other 65% and you can't get anything controversial through the senate without 60% of them agreeing to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villaphan04 Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 As a teacher, my heart bleeds for the families of everyone. I have already seen that the response is now, " we need to give teachers instructional training for dealing with this and arming them". Well, I already have a ton of professional development to do, instructional planning and lesson plans to complete, and dealing with all of the students & their families when they need me to. Now, I need to learn to protect my students with a gun if necessary and yet, they still argue that me (and those in my profession) don't need a pay increase because reasons. Oh, and my school had a kid threaten to shoot it up earlier this year, so I had to mentally prepare myself for dealing with that. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Villaphan04 said: As a teacher, my heart bleeds for the families of everyone. I have already seen that the response is now, " we need to give teachers instructional training for dealing with this and arming them". Well, I already have a ton of professional development to do, instructional planning and lesson plans to complete, and dealing with all of the students & their families when they need me to. Now, I need to learn to protect my students with a gun if necessary and yet, they still argue that me (and those in my profession) don't need a pay increase because reasons. Oh, and my school had a kid threaten to shoot it up earlier this year, so I had to mentally prepare myself for dealing with that. I did think about that yesterday, that those kids probably already have had training on how to hide from a shooter and as a result of yesterday more 5 year olds will be having that training 5 year olds being taught how to hide from someone trying to kill them How do Americans not stop and this is utter lunacy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted May 25, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted May 25, 2022 2 hours ago, Daweii said: These are the steps required to get a gun in the UK; You have to apply for a firearm or shotgun certificate. You need a firearm certificate if you're after rifles (both single fire, or semi-automatic). While pistols/handguns are completely outlawed and cannot be bought even with a firearm certificate. You need a shotgun certificate if you're after shotguns. The UK allows all forms of shotgun be that lever action, pump action, or semi-automatic. To get either certificate you have to go through a multi stage process: Complete an application form. Provide a passport photo. Have 2 references if you're after a firearm certificate, or 1 reference if you're after a shotgun certificate. You also have to pay a fee for the certificate you're applying for. The fee is given to you by your local police force. You must also have a sit down meeting with the chief officer of police where they will ask why you want the gun, what you're planning to do with it and if you seem responsible enough, or of sound mind to own the gun. Once you have passed all the stages and have your certificate you are free to own as many guns within the certificate classification as you want. There is no legal limit on how many you can own, although every single gun you buy does have to registered to your name and your certificate. This certificate also has to be renewed every 5 years. That said even once you have everything squared away, and you're operating above board and you have your gun for whatever reason there are still heavy restrictions: If you own a semi-automatic rifle it is limited to .22 rimfire calibre ammunition meaning its potential to cause catastrophic harm in the wrong hands is greatly minimised. If you own a shotgun it is limited to a capacity of no more than three cartridges. It's hard to get a gun, but once you have it there are laws in place to make sure that if the gun is misused it's not catastrophic. Even this is no guarantee as Jake Davison, a licenced gun holder killed 5 people in Plymouth last year and could probably have killed more if he hadn't have topped himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted May 25, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted May 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Genie said: I remember the guy who shot all the people at a concert from his Las Vegas hotel room balcony. I just looked up what he was carrying He legally bought 33 guns in the 12 months prior to the shooting. There is just no justification for anyone to have that much firepower. Soldiers in the army don’t even have access to that many guns. It’s absolutely bonkers. Even if you allowed everyone in America to have 1 gun it would reduce the amount of guns by about 95%. Yeah, the founding fathers who passed the second amendment would not have had any conception about the types of weapons people would be carrying now, they hadn't been invented or even thought up. They were basing their thinking on handguns and non automatic rifles (in fact would it have even been muskets then?) I doubt they would have approved high powered automatic assault weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted May 25, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted May 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Ingram85 said: At this point it’s like UK people following daft laws from hundreds of years ago like legally being able to shoot a Scotsman on a bridge in hull at 12 noon with a bow and arrow. It’s just nonsense. Wait, are we allowed to do that? Where's me bow and arrer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 4 minutes ago, sidcow said: Yeah, the founding fathers who passed the second amendment would not have had any conception about the types of weapons people would be carrying now, they hadn't been invented or even thought up. They were basing their thinking on handguns and non automatic rifles (in fact would it have even been muskets then?) I doubt they would have approved high powered automatic assault weapons. Automatic weapons are banned in the US (which just goes to show that the second amendment doesn’t stop you banning guns). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 They should start by only allowing a maximum of 1 and then go from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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