bickster Posted February 4, 2020 Moderator Share Posted February 4, 2020 43 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said: As a footnote, I'm always flabbergasted at how anyone Polish can want to align themselves with the far right - be that MPs or football hooligans - given the history there. I posted about this a few days back. I went to Poland just before the Solidarity talks, right at the end of the Communist era. One of the most racist places I've ever been to. The way it was explained to me at the time was that they hated Communism so much that they looked in completely the opposite direction for political ideas and racist nazi ideas were appealing just because things were better for them under Nazi rule than Communist (unless you were Jewish, Gay etc.) Its hard to shake that after 50 years or so of authoritarian communist rule. Unlike those ares liberated by The US / UK / Free French etc they were "liberated" and essentially occupied by the USSR. As much as they didn't want to be invaded by Nazi Germany in 1939, their experience in Communist times was lengthy and far far worse for most. I've not been back but I expect it isn't as bad now as I don't think I've met a Pole in this country with views like I experienced back then, so I suspect it's very much a generational thing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted February 4, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted February 4, 2020 1 hour ago, NurembergVillan said: Be interesting to see how this one plays out... The Jewish Labour Movement and the Board of Deputies of British Jews have condemned it, and the Campaign Against Antisemitism have called upon the Conservative Party to distance themselves from his views. Overarching opinion seems to be that the Tories should suspend the whip. DK has clearly been a whopper for some time now, desperate to be noticed with his proclamations of calling favours from the Polish government (that didn't materialise), but I do wonder if he's perhaps motivated by something more sinister than mere publicity. As a footnote, I'm always flabbergasted at how anyone Polish can want to align themselves with the far right - be that MPs or football hooligans - given the history there. I look forward to a years long campaign to remove him from office. ... Kawcynski is a **** idiot. I'm astonished anyone would bother turning up to listen to him speak, the only remarkable thing would be the confirmation that he can actually form words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 I'm not sure I would call the editorial 'superb', nonetheless it's interesting to see this take from The Heil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted February 5, 2020 Moderator Share Posted February 5, 2020 2 hours ago, snowychap said: 'm not sure I would call the editorial 'superb', nonetheless it's interesting to see this take from The Heil I think the words Lip Service are the ones that jump into my head as I read it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted February 6, 2020 Moderator Share Posted February 6, 2020 Already watched that @Davkaus It's very similar to exactly what I was shouting at the radio when it was on live Michael Spicer is very good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 Quote Britain has done the wrong thing in allowing Huawei to supply it with 5G equipment because China cannot be prevented from exploiting the technology for mass surveillance, according to a senior former Australian spy. Simeon Gilding, a director of the Australian Signals Directorate until December, said his country’s intelligence agency was unable to design cybersecurity controls that could prevent China from gaining backdoor access to Huawei. “We developed pages of cybersecurity mitigation measures to see if it was possible to prevent a sophisticated state actor from accessing our networks through a vendor. But we failed,” he wrote in a blog for an Australian thinktank. He said the UK was relying on “a flawed and outdated cybersecurity model to convince themselves that they can manage the risk that Chinese intelligence services could use Huawei’s access to UK telco networks to insert bad code”. This week Boris Johnson’s government announced that the UK would allow Huawei to supply a maximum of 35% of 5G base stations and antennas, a decision immediately criticised by Washington and many Conservative backbenchers. Grauniad Dominic 'Dover' Raab and the senior Tories working for Huawei say it's ok though 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 Andrea Jenkyns has decided to give a character reference to a Young Conservative who told Yvette Cooper he had paid 'crackheads' to beat her up: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Xann said: He said the UK was relying on “a flawed and outdated cybersecurity model to convince themselves that they can manage the risk that Chinese intelligence services could use Huawei’s access to UK telco networks to insert bad code”. Not my area of expertise admittedly , but based on what i've read and heard , I'm not sure that's even remotely possible with the access that Huawei will have tbh Genuine question on this whole 5G thing though .... there are only 3 companies in the world that make the required tech for this , the other 2 are Nokia and Ericsson , none of them British .. why isn't anyone losing their shit about security risks from the other 2 companies or do we think China are the only people on the world who would spy on us ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 14 hours ago, Davkaus said: anti fox hunting fox hunters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 37 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: Not my area of expertise admittedly , but based on what i've read and heard , I'm not sure that's even remotely possible with the access that Huawei will have tbh Genuine question on this whole 5G thing though .... there are only 3 companies in the world that make the required tech for this , the other 2 are Nokia and Ericsson , none of them British .. why isn't anyone losing their shit about security risks from the other 2 companies or do we think China are the only people on the world who would spy on us ? It’s because the Chinese government have laws that say they are able to have access to ‘private’ companies in a way that is not possible for western governments. Over there private companies are only permitted by the grace of the central party and the Chinese government can call on that power for any reason. Hence there is a question of the independence of a communication provider from what would otherwise be a rival government. The US and Australia have decided the risk is too great but with the UK proceeding it throws the ‘5 eyes’ agreement in jeopardy as the UK becomes the weak link in the group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 45 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: Not my area of expertise admittedly , but based on what i've read and heard , I'm not sure that's even remotely possible with the access that Huawei will have tbh Genuine question on this whole 5G thing though .... there are only 3 companies in the world that make the required tech for this , the other 2 are Nokia and Ericsson , none of them British .. why isn't anyone losing their shit about security risks from the other 2 companies or do we think China are the only people on the world who would spy on us ? They make the components as well Tone. Are we going to strip away all the layers in all the chips to find out if there's an RF circuit in there? Also, initially they may not be able to get at the military and government, but they will keep knocking. They do at my work, China's always probing at the gates. The short term risk IMHO is industrial espionage. They build pretty much everything anyway, they only need plans. An engineer logs into his work network via Huawei box and they're in. Trump said the US would be doing it, do we really expect the Chinese not to? Especially if we hand it to them on a plate. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) The Huawei decision by Johnson is in a league of its own for stupidity. They’re saying the National Cyber Security Centre can manage the risk but I suspect the omitted second half of that sentence goes, “... but it’s still very dodgy and we’d much rather not.” The Tories have been in bed with the CCP since Cameron & Osborne (those noted geo-strategic geniuses), it continued through Hammond (May was frankly too dumb to even grasp the implications) and now into Johnson. I firmly believe it’s a successful continuation of China’s ‘elite capture’ approach to geo-politics. It’s worked across Central Asia, Southern Europe and now in UK, too. Create economic interests for the national elite to deepen bilateral ties, then reel them in. London is now the biggest centre outside China for clearing RMB (about $5.5 trillion last year), which lines a lot of pockets in Tory donor land. Much as it pains me to admit, Trump has got China dead right. We should be de-coupling from them, not inviting the CCP (Huawei is a straight-up extension of the Chinese state) into our critical national infrastructure. This should, and probably will, get quietly overturned. Edited February 7, 2020 by Awol 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 1 hour ago, tonyh29 said: Not my area of expertise admittedly , but based on what i've read and heard , I'm not sure that's even remotely possible with the access that Huawei will have tbh Genuine question on this whole 5G thing though .... there are only 3 companies in the world that make the required tech for this , the other 2 are Nokia and Ericsson , none of them British .. why isn't anyone losing their shit about security risks from the other 2 companies or do we think China are the only people on the world who would spy on us ? I'm not sure Finland or Sweden have quite the same world-dominating agendas.........comparing Sweden/Finland with China is like comparing Thatcher to Hitler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 23 minutes ago, Awol said: I firmly believe it’s a successful continuation of China’s ‘elite capture’ approach to geo-politics. It’s worked across Central Asia, Southern Europe and now in UK, too. Create economic interests for the national elite to deepen bilateral ties, then reel them in. Yes, so much this. Then you have Putin getting into the Trump hierarchy, Brexit, Italian nationalists and whatever else he thinks he can agitate. Our weakness is the greed of our politicians and the broken and not fit for purpose abstract that is the economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 59 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: I'm not sure Finland or Sweden have quite the same world-dominating agendas.........comparing Sweden/Finland with China is like comparing Thatcher to Hitler. its a poor analogy , if VT is your benchmark then Hitler doesn't come close to Thatcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 7, 2020 Author Moderator Share Posted February 7, 2020 2 hours ago, Xann said: The short term risk IMHO is industrial espionage. They build pretty much everything anyway, they only need plans. An engineer logs into his work network via Huawei box and they're in. Trump said the US would be doing it, do we really expect the Chinese not to? Especially if we hand it to them on a plate. 1 hour ago, Awol said: I firmly believe it’s a successful continuation of China’s ‘elite capture’ approach to geo-politics. It’s worked across Central Asia, Southern Europe and now in UK, too. Create economic interests for the national elite to deepen bilateral ties, then reel them in. Yes indeeds. There are loads of other aspects to this, too. Obviously the US is, in part, taking their route because Trump trade war, rather than security. But he's largely right about China's IPR practices, which boil down to "nick everything we can" from the West, via hacking, espionage, T&Cs for co.s setting up in China, then do it cheaper themselves without having to do the R&D. The security side isn't black and white as I understand it with 5G. It's less about the ability to snaffle data, though there's an element of that, than to kill infrastructure and thus disrupt. One side not mentioned is the sheer amount of transmitters for 5G - for 4G there are mobile phone masts in most areas - towns and cities will have multiple ones, and villages perhaps 1 to over the village, or 2 if there are different providers. 5G is basically one per lamp post, pretty much. The effects of that on people are a bit of a concern, similar with tracking people's movements down to the nearest inch. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 1 hour ago, tonyh29 said: its a poor analogy , if VT is your benchmark then Hitler doesn't come close to Thatcher You’re a poor analogy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 We’ve had enough of experts. All these people saying letting China in to our i.t. Systems are just doom mongers. FFS have a bit more faith in Boris. OK, we might lose in the long run, but for a while, the fridge will be able to warn you if you’re low on cheese. All about priorities. I.T. Infrastructure gets Chinese control. Steel production - gone to China. Nuclear power stations - Chinese. But we’ll just spend an extra 0.2% on defence and they’ll know they’re dealing with a serious player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 It's absolute insanity. They might swerve it? Cummings is sharp.and his friends net savvy. Enough conversations like this on the interweb and things could change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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