bickster Posted January 22, 2020 Moderator Share Posted January 22, 2020 So many topics this could go in but here seems best Quote Boris Johnson has been warned that his plan to introduce a digital tax on Google, Amazon and other big technology companies will be met with trade sanctions from President Trump. Steven Mnuchin, the US treasury secretary, said yesterday that Britain and Italy would “find themselves faced with President Trump’s tariffs” unless they shelve their proposals, placing Mr Johnson on a collision course with the administration. Thiunderer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 A slightly disorganised post/thoughts inspired by the following tweet: I did consider posting this in the Brexit thread, but I guess I'm not interested in dunking on this stupid idea right now (although if anyone wants to, please feel free). It seems to me that the purpose of this stuff must be signalling, specifically signalling how much she hates The French, and I got wondering about why Tories hate The French so much, and where that comes from. It prompted a long-forgotten memory of my dad, a true-blue Tory, 'joking' in the years prior to 2000 about how the 20th century was the first for a thousand years when we hadn't been at war with the French, and 'joking' about how he hoped it would happen in time to keep the record up etc. Thinking about this made me wonder where this comes from specifically. My mind immediately jumped to 'this sounds like something Jeremy Clarkson would say', but presumably there's more to it than him and similar media Tories, and anyway, how did they develop the opinion? It's made me realise how little I understand British conservatives, at a basic level. Who or what would I read, if I wanted to better understand how British conservative opinion is formed? Preferably by an actual conservative? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 47 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Who or what would I read, if I wanted to better understand how British conservative opinion is formed? Preferably by an actual conservative? Something by Peter Hitchens, perhaps? I can't recommend anything specific but I would take a punt that you could dip in to almost anything that he writes and there'd be some sort of comment about how he apparently ditched Trotskyism in favour of conservatism and why (latest claim is that this was on the back of reading Orwell's essays, letters and journalism and thinking that they were much better and more the real Orwell than 1984/Animal Farm). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 5 minutes ago, snowychap said: Something by Peter Hitchens, perhaps? I can't recommend anything specific but I would take a punt that you could dip in to almost anything that he writes and there'd be some sort of comment about how he apparently ditched Trotskyism in favour of conservatism and why (latest claim is that this was on the back of reading Orwell's essays, letters and journalism and thinking that they were much better and more the real Orwell than 1984/Animal Farm). That's definitely someone I've thought of, but I worry a bit that he might be too much 'the sort of Conservative someone like me would want to read', ie that he's heterodox enough that he isn't very representative. Maybe that affects his foreign policy thinking (on which I often find myself in agreement with him) more than his domestic beliefs, and he's more typical with regards to the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 23, 2020 Moderator Share Posted January 23, 2020 Agincourt innit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 1 minute ago, HanoiVillan said: That's definitely someone I've thought of, but I worry a bit that he might be too much 'the sort of Conservative someone like me would want to read', ie that he's heterodox enough that he isn't very representative. Maybe that affects his foreign policy thinking (on which I often find myself in agreement with him) more than his domestic beliefs, and he's more typical with regards to the latter. Maybe. It only occurred to me as I read that recent Spectator column (and thought the Orwell comparison a little weird as it seems he has made the opposite journey to Orwell). Otherwise, you're probably in to Ferguson/Sandbrook/Murray/Scruton territory, I'd guess. Or any memoir of anyone's public school days over the last half century. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said: Who or what would I read, if I wanted to better understand how British conservative opinion is formed? Preferably by an actual conservative? Any Facebook group with a St George’s Cross as the picture. Or if you want to read something from the American bandwagon that many now pretend they have read I guess a bit of Ayn Rand! On a serious note, it’s really tricky at the moment as so few people actually seem to have a set of ideals they believe in outside of ‘making libs cry’. snowychap has shown the problem by the fact that once you brush over Hitchens you’re onto some real wrong ‘uns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said: Who or what would I read, if I wanted to better understand how British conservative opinion is formed? Preferably by an actual conservative? Can't say owt about it myself but maybe Jesse Norman's worth a look, too (obviously ignore most of the drivel whilst an MP!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 23, 2020 Author Moderator Share Posted January 23, 2020 3 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: what would I read, if I wanted to better understand how British conservative opinion is formed? Preferably by an actual conservative? In addition to the other suggestions maybe Peter Oborne (various media outlets)? Trouble is there are two types - there's the sane ones and there's the mad ones. Probably best not to go near the mad, throbby, ones - either in writing or real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 5 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: Who or what would I read, if I wanted to better understand how British conservative opinion is formed? Preferably by an actual conservative? I suspect many tories are reading nothing much more grand than the Mail / Express for their philosophical guidance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 6 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: and I got wondering about why Tories hate The French so much, and where that comes from. I think you’ll find everyone* hates the French , the term cheese eating surrender monkeys wasn’t coined by Thatcher you know... personally I suspect it’s down to those blue and white striped shirts and daft berets ... looking ridiculous is also why people hate hipsters and vegans ... the French are just an extension of that logical dislike a tv show on history channel found that 1 in 3 French people polled “disliked” the English , I think the mock dislike of each other is kinda mutual * a generic nations everyone , doesn’t require posts about how your holiday to France was amazing and how wonderful and friendly the waiter who served you was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PompeyVillan Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 (edited) It's not that difficult to see it, part of the Brexit rhetoric was this strange sort of bleary-eyed colonial inspired patriotism. You know, painting Britain as the force of 1940 that stood alone in the world against the Nazis, the evil oppressor of Europe. Plenty of the Tory MP Brexit doughnuts were doing it. Where is it that it comes from, I don't know? Perhaps it's born out of the reality of Britain no longer being a world power anymore. Its hard for anyone to argue otherwise, so they invoke ideas of colonialism when Britain ruled the waves and disliked the French. I think it's also fair to say that France is romanticised by so many in this country, and many more in France (they do love themselves, do.thr French). It's a beautiful country of fine wine and food, arts, architecture, history and philosophy. Ruddy faced British Conservatives find all that quite threatening. All they have is their bigotry, superiority complexes and erectile dysfunction. Edited January 23, 2020 by PompeyVillan 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 18 minutes ago, PompeyVillan said: Perhaps it's born out of the reality of Britain no longer being a world power anymore. Its hard for anyone to argue otherwise, Google world powers and Britain / U.K. appears in the top 5 or 6 on just about every list , it’s true we may not be the influence on the planet we were in the days of the Empire and we aren’t in the same league as the USA and China but we are still a world power but I’m interested to see what criteria you are using in forming your conclusion , then one would be in a position to argue otherwise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PompeyVillan Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 11 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: Google world powers and Britain / U.K. appears in the top 5 or 6 on just about every list , it’s true we may not be the influence on the planet we were in the days of the Empire and we aren’t in the same league as the USA and China but we are still a world power but I’m interested to see what criteria you are using in forming your conclusion , then one would be in a position to argue otherwise Willy size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 1 minute ago, PompeyVillan said: Willy size. That’s what happens when you incorporate the welsh into your empire , drags the average down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 58 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: That’s what happens when you incorporate the welsh into your empire , drags the average down I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I’m a grower, and you just ain’t doing it for me right now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 22 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I’m a grower, and you just ain’t doing it for me right now. Not even if I send you my holiday video ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 Well, I’d be lying if I said nothing was happening... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 24, 2020 Moderator Share Posted January 24, 2020 Oh thats such a special relaionship Quote US denies extradition request for Anne Sacoolas, diplomat's wife who allegedly hit, killed British teen ABC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted January 24, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted January 24, 2020 3 hours ago, bickster said: Oh thats such a special relaionship ABC About that trade deal... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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