Relegation Thread Version...99?!

[Marka Ragnos]

34 minutes ago, villa89 said:

To be a happy supporter of a team you need to have hope that your team can achieve something. A big win against a rival, winning a trophy, finishing higher than expected, promoting players into the national team. The only hope as a Villa fan was hoping each season that the steady decline the club has been in for the last few years wouldn't be bad enough to see them relegated. This year that decline has smashed through that "low tide" mark after only just sneaking above it the last two seasons. There's no joy in being a Villa fan anymore, and no hope it will improve anytime soon.

I think you're being honest about your feelings, and I respect that. We're at a low ebb.

I'm not pooing rainbows, but I am willing to follow Villa down to hell and back, and I gotta say, there's a certain muted joy in the feeling of being dedicated to the long-term project.

[PieFacE]

1 hour ago, Cliffy Biro said:

See this is what i see written a lot, why do you just assume a year down there will be much more entertaining and we'll suddenly win more games? It just doesn't automatically work like that. It would be a disaster for us because of the way were run, our finances, our squad and more than likely another manager change. Last one is conjecture i admit.

If you are not sure how its not a disaster for us fans then i'm not going to try and make it one for you but it most certainly is one for me, risk being stuck in the lower leagues as a former giant for a decade is not something i can even remotely consider a positive.

Because I'd say it's far far more likely that if we do go down next season we will win more game than if we stay up battling relegation again. I'm not saying we will come straight back up, but I'm saying over the course of the 46 game season we will win more games. Which to me will be more interesting then getting spanked every week. 

I'm a firm believer that there's a whole lot more about football than the Premier League, I simply just do not hold it in the same high regard that you seem too. If we go down and come back up then great, but I expect the "coming back up" part will be much more fun than the "Premier League" part. 

[Richard]

We are a total shambles as a club as a team as a business.  How do we compete with Crystal Palace for example for a player? If we are in the market for a striker this window and CP are as well,  anyone genuinely confident we can compete?  Or Stoke or Boggies or Swansea or Leicester or Southampton? No chance not a chance in hell.  Thoise clubs are ahead and moving ahead with each passing game.  We get relegated and they will move still further ahead as we struggle to get back or become a yo yo club (we can only hope to be a yo yo club now).  Yet we are a huge club, massive.  I hate lerner for dragging us here.  I've supported Villa over 40 years well over 40 years.  I cant stand whats happening to us right now and I guess the attitude Ive developed of being resigned to it protects me a little bit from getting even angrier about something I can do **** all about

[Marka Ragnos]

You know what's kind of weirdly revealing and funny? You can kind of see how Villa supporters are going through Kubler-Ross's stage of grief:

Quote

1. Denial — The first reaction is denial. In this stage individuals believe the diagnosis is somehow mistaken, and cling to a false, preferable reality.
2. Anger — When the individual recognizes that denial cannot continue, it becomes frustrated, especially at proximate individuals. Certain psychological responses of a person undergoing this phase would be: "Why me? It's not fair!"; "How can this happen to me?"; '"Who is to blame?"; "Why would this happen?".
3. Bargaining — The third stage involves the hope that the individual can avoid a cause of grief. Usually, the negotiation for an extended life is made in exchange for a reformed lifestyle. People facing less serious trauma can bargain or seek compromise.
4. Depression — "I'm so sad, why bother with anything?"; "I'm going to die soon so what's the point?"; "I miss my loved one, why go on?"
   During the fourth stage, the individual becomes saddened by the mathematical probability of death. In this state, the individual may become silent, refuse visitors and spend much of the time mournful and sullen.
5. Acceptance — "It's going to be okay."; "I can't fight it, I may as well prepare for it."; "Nothing is impossible."
   In this last stage, individuals embrace mortality or inevitable future, or that of a loved one, or other tragic event. People dying may precede the survivors in this state, which typically comes with a calm, retrospective view for the individual, and a stable condition of emotions.

 

 

I think I've actually gone through all these stages, and I'm at acceptance now.

[Cliffy Biro]

10 minutes ago, PieFacE said:

Because I'd say it's far far more likely that if we do go down next season we will win more game than if we stay up battling relegation again. I'm not saying we will come straight back up, but I'm saying over the course of the 46 game season we will win more games. Which to me will be more interesting then getting spanked every week. 

I'm a firm believer that there's a whole lot more about football than the Premier League, I simply just do not hold it in the same high regard that you seem too. If we go down and come back up then great, but I expect the "coming back up" part will be much more fun than the "Premier League" part. 

Yes i do, and so does most of the footballing world. I want the club to play at the highest level and competitions. I dont want us in the championship or the paint trophy simply because we might win a few more games which again is just an assumption anyway.

[PieFacE]

7 minutes ago, Cliffy Biro said:

Yes i do, and so does most of the footballing world. I want the club to play at the highest level and competitions. I dont want us in the championship or the paint trophy simply because we might win a few more games which again is just an assumption anyway.

If the past 5 years down Villa Park is what watching football at the highest level is then to be completely honest, it's a little lost on me. We're stuck in such a rut, we need something to change, and it wont happen whilst getting battered every game. If you're enjoying it then fair enough, but I can tell you going down Villa Park has not been an enjoyable experience for me in a long time, and whilst things are the way they are in terms of the league and finances/FFP, it's not going to get any better for us for a long time. 

Going down Villa Park has become a chore, I want to enjoy it again. 

Edited December 8, 2015 by PieFacE

[markavfc40]

19 minutes ago, Richard said:

We are a total shambles as a club as a team as a business.  How do we compete with Crystal Palace for example for a player? If we are in the market for a striker this window and CP are as well,  anyone genuinely confident we can compete?  Or Stoke or Boggies or Swansea or Leicester or Southampton? No chance not a chance in hell.  Thoise clubs are ahead and moving ahead with each passing game.  We get relegated and they will move still further ahead as we struggle to get back or become a yo yo club (we can only hope to be a yo yo club now).  Yet we are a huge club, massive.  I hate lerner for dragging us here.  I've supported Villa over 40 years well over 40 years.  I cant stand whats happening to us right now and I guess the attitude Ive developed of being resigned to it protects me a little bit from getting even angrier about something I can do **** all about

I genuinely feel your pain mate and whilst being a rant that is one of the most heartfelt posts I have read on here for some time.

This club has been abused by Lerner. He claimed he would love and cherish it and whilst I don't believe for a second any of this was his intention he couldn't have led us to a much more sorry state if he had tried. To see us so far behind, not just in league position, so many inferior clubs is gut wrenching.

On a brighter note I believe we'll come again. This club has too much about it not to.

Edited December 8, 2015 by markavfc40

[Woodytom]

I don't see us coming again. I don't think, there has been a worse time for a team to go down for the past 20 years.

That's not because of the TV money. Don't buy into that. But because so many teams above and below, are 'on it' 

I think wel disappear into a cloud of nothingness. Not necessarily a Leeds but a mid championship team.

[HanoiVillan]

20 minutes ago, PieFacE said:

If the past 5 years down Villa Park is what watching football at the highest level is then to be completely honest, it's a little lost on me. We're stuck in such a rut, we need something to change, and it wont happen whilst getting battered every game. If you're enjoying it then fair enough, but I can tell you going down Villa Park has not been an enjoyable experience for me in a long time, and whilst things are the way they are in terms of the league and finances/FFP, it's not going to get any better for us for a long time. 

Going down Villa Park has become a chore, I want to enjoy it again. 

Excellent post. Honestly, I'm totally bored of getting beaten every week. We haven't even averaged a point a game at home over the last half decade. That's like, 1/16th of the average lifespan of a human born in Britain, we've been completely abhorrent for that length of time. At a certain point, why bother? I've gone one stage beyond 'acceptance', I'm moving into outright enthusiasm for the idea. Plus Randy gets to lose loads and loads of money, which couldn't be more thoroughly deserved. 

[Richard]

what makes anyone believe we will be able to compete or afford to compete at a lower level? We can't afford to compete now with the millions coming into the club.  We can't compete with smaller clubs who are getting the same or less than us. How can we compete when the level of income goes down drastically?

[KJT123]

The thought of going down and not ever coming back up is a pretty scary thought, and I think it's a very real possibility. But, Newcastle seemed to do alright a few years ago? They kept their best players, the owner dug his heels in and managed to blitz the league. I hope Lerner takes the same stance because I do feel we have some very very good players amongst the deadwood that are more than capable of taking the Championship by storm.

[Ingram85]

11 minutes ago, KJT123 said:

The thought of going down and not ever coming back up is a pretty scary thought, and I think it's a very real possibility. But, Newcastle seemed to do alright a few years ago? They kept their best players, the owner dug his heels in and managed to blitz the league. I hope Lerner takes the same stance because I do feel we have some very very good players amongst the deadwood that are more than capable of taking the Championship by storm.

I'm hoping once we are in the championship that Lerner has **** off into the sunset never to return. If he is still there well after relegation then it wouldn't surprise me if this time next year we will be staring league one in the face. Lerner needs to drop his price and get far away from this club. Hate him.

[PieFacE]

Surely all we need to do is look at Crystal Palace,  Watford,  Leicester,  Newcastle (to a degree),  Southampton,  Swansea,  WBA and realise relegation is hardly the end.  I'm sure at some stage all of their fans have said "how can we compete with anyone blah blah",  yet now look at them.  Miles ahead of us.  Its not like when we drop other teams in the Premier League won't get relegated and there's no way to get back in.  Football is a funny old game and who knows,  going down might finally be the thing that gets rid of Lerner and we could have a Leicester style takeover which will allow us to rebuild on a clean slate with real investment.  

Edited December 8, 2015 by PieFacE

[blandy]

2 hours ago, Woodytom said:

I don't let it get to me any more. Haven't for a while

But anyone defending this shower of shite, in any way, under any circumstances, is having a complete joke imo.

About 2 years ago, just less than, I went to the home cup game against Sheffield Utd. it was so laughably inept, so comically bad that combined with (through working abroad for extended periods and so) being unable to go and thus getting out of the habit and the cost involved I just sort of realised at that game "this is all a monumental waste of my time and money" and I decided that was me, done with it all. I subsequently went to the last game of that season (against my better judgement) and regretted it - only re-inforcing my belief that I was done with it. I went to Wembley twice, because of the generosity of a good friend, but it was really for the occasion and a meet up with friends. The Liverpool game almost pulled me back into it, but it didn't.

The reason for writing this is to say that there's a stage or two past your "I don't let it get to me any more."  -  past the deliberate "I'm not going to let it bother me" and on to "not bothering or thinking about games or results or watching football generally".

I nip in here every now and again for a chat or whatever, but I'm interested in what people think or say (to a degree) but not about the team. I wouldn't recognise half the players, or even know their names.

[Richard]

11 minutes ago, blandy said:

About 2 years ago, just less than, I went to the home cup game against Sheffield Utd. it was so laughably inept, so comically bad that combined with (through working abroad for extended periods and so) being unable to go and thus getting out of the habit and the cost involved I just sort of realised at that game "this is all a monumental waste of my time and money" and I decided that was me, done with it all. I subsequently went to the last game of that season (against my better judgement) and regretted it - only re-inforcing my belief that I was done with it. I went to Wembley twice, because of the generosity of a good friend, but it was really for the occasion and a meet up with friends. The Liverpool game almost pulled me back into it, but it didn't.

The reason for writing this is to say that there's a stage or two past your "I don't let it get to me any more."  -  past the deliberate "I'm not going to let it bother me" and on to "not bothering or thinking about games or results or watching football generally".

I nip in here every now and again for a chat or whatever, but I'm interested in what people think or say (to a degree) but not about the team. I wouldn't recognise half the players, or even know their names.

blandy,  seriously,  you campaigned (actively) against ellis for years I know I saw you there. You wanted a better club a better team and you wanted to have hope once more (I think thats what you wanted). Not once during that time did you feel lost or like this I dont think. Yet now you do.  For me that is reason enough why this bloke is worse.  That he has made genuine supporters feel this way

[Woodytom]

36 minutes ago, blandy said:

About 2 years ago, just less than, I went to the home cup game against Sheffield Utd. it was so laughably inept, so comically bad that combined with (through working abroad for extended periods and so) being unable to go and thus getting out of the habit and the cost involved I just sort of realised at that game "this is all a monumental waste of my time and money" and I decided that was me, done with it all. I subsequently went to the last game of that season (against my better judgement) and regretted it - only re-inforcing my belief that I was done with it. I went to Wembley twice, because of the generosity of a good friend, but it was really for the occasion and a meet up with friends. The Liverpool game almost pulled me back into it, but it didn't.

The reason for writing this is to say that there's a stage or two past your "I don't let it get to me any more."  -  past the deliberate "I'm not going to let it bother me" and on to "not bothering or thinking about games or results or watching football generally".

I nip in here every now and again for a chat or whatever, but I'm interested in what people think or say (to a degree) but not about the team. I wouldn't recognise half the players, or even know their names.

I'd not realised you had become so distant with it tbh.

My last 4 games have been

Villa 0-4 spurs lc

Villa 0-0 Sunderland 

Villa 0-3 man utd

Villa 0-0 Sunderland 

I may be wrong but I'm not even sure I saw a shot on target. 

I love the game of football. You win, lose draw. No issue with that. But these games weren't even football. I can't describe what I was watching. But it wasn't fun, and it certainly wasn't worth the best part or 200 quid for me and a other. 

[rubberman]

What worries me about going down is that if Randy cuts his losses and sells for cheap, the standard of owner we'll get may very well be far, far worse than we have now.  At least selling us as a Premier League club for £150m limits the buyers out there (as we've seen from the limited interest) to those with a decent amount of cash.  Opening it up to potential buyers the next tier down scares me.

[blandy]

52 minutes ago, Richard said:

blandy,  seriously,  you campaigned (actively) against ellis for years I know I saw you there. You wanted a better club a better team and you wanted to have hope once more (I think thats what you wanted). Not once during that time did you feel lost or like this I dont think. Yet now you do.  For me that is reason enough why this bloke is worse.  That he has made genuine supporters feel this way

The first part is true Richard. And when RL took over I/we got that back - the hope and all the rest. It was fun again. However, in the last maybe 4 or 5 years it hasn't been. But it's wrong to blame RL for my personal drifting away. There are other circumstances. I absolutely accept that the state of the club is his responsibility (along with others), but primarily him. But that's not why I drifted away. The club and team have been worse in my lifetime and I've been still interested and involved.

Other than me being older and marginally wiser than when we last went down, there's so much else changed in my life and in football generally. I can't imagine the game was as corrupt back then, the prices for tickets were not as astronomical, the players weren't quite as spoilt at a young age, the fixtures weren't as subject to TV changes. Games were played at 3 pm on a Saturday. You could just turn up pay your ( in todays money) about 8 quid (probably about 4 or 5 quid back then - I'm sure my season ticket the season after we'd gone last time cost 50 quid for the Holte End. The European Cup was not a league. the UEFA cup was not a league and was not a handicap to stop the good teams getting into the top 4. The top 4 was not the aim. Just staying up wasn't the aim. the FA cup and League cup were things everyone desperately wanted to win, not diversions from the important aim of finishing 12th and getting the extra prize money.

Fans were herded into some crap terraces, but it's inconceivable that a TV deal increase, just the increase from last time's deal would be worth more than £40 for every single fan at every game, and that the clubs would still put the prices up.

Some things are better, but it's essentially a different game. It's the different game and the attitude of the people in it that's been the real cause of me drifting away. I had hoped (unrealistically) RL would be a benevolent good owner. He's turned out to be initially that, but his inexperience and incompetence and then withdrawal from involvement have led the club to where it's at.

But yeah, at that Sheff Utd. cup game it all kind of game together that I was wasting my time. I've moved on and that's that.

 

[HanoiVillan]

1 hour ago, Richard said:

what makes anyone believe we will be able to compete or afford to compete at a lower level? We can't afford to compete now with the millions coming into the club.  We can't compete with smaller clubs who are getting the same or less than us. How can we compete when the level of income goes down drastically?

Because we'll have more money than nearly every other team in the division. Because the owner - unless he wants to be burdened with the club forever or sell it at a massive, massive loss - will need to fund a promotion push. Because the players are bad for the Premier League but not necessarily bad for the Championship where the standard is much lower. Because of the teams that went down last season, Burnley and Hull are 4th and 5th, well in the promotion chase, while QPR are in 12th, still within plausible reach of the playoffs and little danger of relegation. 

Do any or all of these things guarantee success? Of course not. But we will be at the top end of the table come final reckoning next season. 

[PaulC]

If we go down surely Lerner is more likely to remain