Refugee crisis

[Jarpie]

Goddammit, tapatalk destroyed the quotes, will repost tomorrow.

[HanoiVillan]

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJQ1a0Cmsk4

Safe in germany but still not very happy, i wonder why, no halal food?

What, exactly, is your point? 

You dont get it do you ?

People fleeing from war, Germany welcomes them in and they behave like this?

Are we supposed to be surprised when people from a war zone get a little tense and occassionally fight eachother (btw!) in a crowded, makeshift camp? Is this supposed to make them in any less need of refuge? 

Yes iam shocked by their behaviour, you dont come to a country who saved your life and behave like this, you just dont.

Any proof that the video is of what you claim? Or that it's even refugees? Or Muslims?

Ofcourse, a friend of a friend filmed it, that's good enough for you ?

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeiefOw5n7aJtYIeG3rD4rQ/videos

Looks like she's been witness to some crazy stuff during her month on YouTube...

To be fair, the video called 'Disgusting Cyst Drainage' is absolutely amazing, can't fault her for that. 

[Nabby]

http://mashable.com/2015/09/06/everyone-wants-to-be-syrian/

Basically now Germany has said the more the merrier if your from Syria , immigrants of other nationalities are lying about where they are from , posing as Syrian to gain access.

This is where the UK have it right , take the people in the most distress direct from the camps.

Be interesting to see what happens tomorrow when Juncker gives his EU state of Union speech where the EU will set out the figures countries are to take.

[bickster]

http://mashable.com/2015/09/06/everyone-wants-to-be-syrian/

Basically now Germany has said the more the merrier if your from Syria , immigrants of other nationalities are lying about where they are from , posing as Syrian to gain access.

This is where the UK have it right , take the people in the most distress direct from the camps.

Be interesting to see what happens tomorrow when Juncker gives his EU state of Union speech where the EU will set out the figures countries are to take.

Germany don't care though, it really gets them out of a big population problem that was looming. They need lots of people. This way they look compassionate too (Yes Germany with good PR!)

Its not about the UK having it right. Germany have it right... for them theres no right and wrong here apart from Germany being a little dishonest with why they are taking so many

 

[Keyblade]

You can be reasonable and then you can make stupid generalisations like '15% of Muslims are radical'

I believe I said 15% of the people who are coming might be fundamentalists/fanatics/supremacists

Yeah, and 7.375% of them might be secret My Little Pony fans, what's your point? You basically made up a figure based on conclusions drawn a few dubious polls conducted on a grand total of 0.00000875% of the Muslim population and used it to make assumptions of the refugees. Not bad for a day's work.

[maqroll]

If this thread proves anything, it's that we need Villa playing regularly again...

[Awol]

http://mashable.com/2015/09/06/everyone-wants-to-be-syrian/

Basically now Germany has said the more the merrier if your from Syria , immigrants of other nationalities are lying about where they are from , posing as Syrian to gain access.

This is where the UK have it right , take the people in the most distress direct from the camps.

Be interesting to see what happens tomorrow when Juncker gives his EU state of Union speech where the EU will set out the figures countries are to take.

Let's summarise in advance and compare afterwards...

"Europe has many problems, the only solution is... *drumroll* more power for me and mates!"

"Our overlord, sorry, dear Angela, should be canonised. Yes she ripped up EU law like it was soggy Andrex, but that's okay because it's Germany and her conscience made her do it. However, without consultation or agreement we have now decided on a quota system that we will unilaterally impose on the democratic governments of the EU nation states. You will accept this or we will punish you. Look at Greece if you don't believe me - they didn't follow the rules. My speech today is not loaded with irony and I am definitely not throwing ammunition into the guns of EU sceptics in the UK (which incidentally is a beastly country that will be punished if it does not follow the new rules I just made up with Angie and Francois). Now, please stand for Beethoven's 9th, salute the flag, seig heil!"

Reckon that will be pretty close to it in the end.

 

[NurembergVillan]

More likely to be Richard Wagner than Beethoven, but apart from that...

[Jarpie]

You can be reasonable and then you can make stupid generalisations like '15% of Muslims are radical'

I believe I said 15% of the people who are coming might be fundamentalists/fanatics/supremacists

Yeah, and 7.375% of them might be secret My Little Pony fans, what's your point? You basically made up a figure based on conclusions drawn a few dubious polls conducted on a grand total of 0.00000875% of the Muslim population and used it to make assumptions of the refugees. Not bad for a day's work.

My original question was if people would welcome in refugees/migrants from the east europe if something similar would happen as in Syria, and the said refugees would be 75% men and from the areas which would be known for having christian neo-nazis, I doubt it very much.

Read all of my messages in this topic, instead of cherry picking one poorly made one from the many arguments I've made.

[Awol]

More likely to be Richard Wagner than Beethoven, but apart from that...

A like wasn't sufficient.

lol.

[Stevo985]

You can be reasonable and then you can make stupid generalisations like '15% of Muslims are radical'

I believe I said 15% of the people who are coming might be fundamentalists/fanatics/supremacists

Yeah, and 7.375% of them might be secret My Little Pony fans, what's your point? You basically made up a figure based on conclusions drawn a few dubious polls conducted on a grand total of 0.00000875% of the Muslim population and used it to make assumptions of the refugees. Not bad for a day's work.

My original question was if people would welcome in refugees/migrants from the east europe if something similar would happen as in Syria, and the said refugees would be 75% men and from the areas which would be known for having christian neo-nazis, I doubt it very much.

Read all of my messages in this topic, instead of cherry picking one poorly made one from the many arguments I've made.

But your original question was based on a chain of ifs and buts.

 

And last, let me ask you people question who will undoubetly call me racist or hate-monger, if same thing what has happened in Syria, would happen in a country like...say...Romania, Czech, Bulgaria, Hungary or other eastern european states and you'd suddenly start to get 300 000 - 400 000 refugees, and they'd be from the areas which are very known for having a lot of fundamentalist christian neo-nazis, would you invite them all in if 75% of them would be men with good chance of, say, 15% being neo-nazis? That's something like 20 000 - 30 000 white supremacists all across europe.

IF this was happening in a European country, and IF we took in 400000 refugees, and IF 75% of them were male, and IF 15% of them were nazis, so IF we had 30,000 white supremacists here, and IF they were let to do whatever they wanted in our country (or countries) then yes, that might be a problem.

But you've made that scenario up. It's in your head. It is not comparable to what's happening with Syrian refugees. So agreeing with your scenario being a bad thing is not the same as agreeing that accepting some syrian refugees is a bad thing.

Nobody is challenging your right to question the taking in of refugees. It's coming out with made up scenarios and statistics that bothers people.

 

It's like me saying "Well, Jarpie, let me ask you this. If this was happening in America, and we took in 200,000 American refugees, and 99% of them were totally normal, hard working, upstanding members of the community who would integrate into society and get a job and eventually contribute as much, if not more, to our country than any other native citizen, would you still think taking in refugees is a bad thing?"

You can't disagree with that question. But it bears no relevance to what is actually happening because I've made it up.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Stevo985

[chrisp65]

On a shellfish note, I don't see the current situation helping the lazy limp David Cameron cajole his euro leader chums in to giving the UK more special concessions around our membership and what rules apply to us.

Germany has sensed an opportunity here, something that will be a grand gesture, that helps it's own economy, that gets a rule change on moral and christian values, that coincidentally does nothing to help its closest rivals  partners. 

In its own twisted way, this could see the UK much more likely to leave the EU. By leave the EU, obviously I mean still trade with it, still have to meet all its rules, still have to organise our services to match their standards, just not have a say in anything. Leave deciding the rules entirely to Germany, France and the rotation of nodding dogs from Malta and Lithuania etc..

With this being the dominant issue and us being out of step, I just can't see the political mastermind and detailed thinker and strategist that is David Cameron and his 'advisors' (yah, sounds great Henry, you sign it, I'm on holiday), being able to negotiate a deal for us that will appease the newspapers' need for petty victory.

I know it's a different topic really, but I think the last few weeks have seen us take a step towards leaving. The silent selfish majority have seen the future, they'll be scared.

[villaglint]

Interesting point Chris. 6 months a go I thought there was litterally no chance we would leave the EU but given the capacity for politics to throw up the unexpected I would not be surprised now. I still think that whatever Cameron manages to negotiate he will sell it as a victory and as long as the Tory campaign machine gets behind an "in" vote then we will stay in. 

 

 

[MakemineVanilla]

More likely to be Richard Wagner than Beethoven, but apart from that...

I get the joke but strangely enough, the philosopher Slavoj Zizek points out that Beethoven's 9th has been the number one choice for dictators and one-party states across the globe.

The Ode To Joy should be seen as a far more insidious form of propaganda than Wagner.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XM9erS90gTE 

 

Edited September 9, 2015 by MakemineVanilla

[Eames]

http://mashable.com/2015/09/06/everyone-wants-to-be-syrian/

Basically now Germany has said the more the merrier if your from Syria , immigrants of other nationalities are lying about where they are from , posing as Syrian to gain access.

This is where the UK have it right , take the people in the most distress direct from the camps.

Be interesting to see what happens tomorrow when Juncker gives his EU state of Union speech where the EU will set out the figures countries are to take.

Germany don't care though, it really gets them out of a big population problem that was looming. They need lots of people. This way they look compassionate too (Yes Germany with good PR!)

Its not about the UK having it right. Germany have it right... for them theres no right and wrong here apart from Germany being a little dishonest with why they are taking so many

 

You have to admire the ruthless efficiency really. Get 'em in. Get 'em working and paying taxes. Boom. Looming pension/ageing population issue solved overnight. 

[Nabby]

http://mashable.com/2015/09/06/everyone-wants-to-be-syrian/

Basically now Germany has said the more the merrier if your from Syria , immigrants of other nationalities are lying about where they are from , posing as Syrian to gain access.

This is where the UK have it right , take the people in the most distress direct from the camps.

Be interesting to see what happens tomorrow when Juncker gives his EU state of Union speech where the EU will set out the figures countries are to take.

Germany don't care though, it really gets them out of a big population problem that was looming. They need lots of people. This way they look compassionate too (Yes Germany with good PR!)

Its not about the UK having it right. Germany have it right... for them theres no right and wrong here apart from Germany being a little dishonest with why they are taking so many

 

You have to admire the ruthless efficiency really. Get 'em in. Get 'em working and paying taxes. Boom. Looming pension/ageing population issue solved overnight. 

Juncker has said today in his speech  Europe (Germany)  has ageing population and needs immigration ....Asylum seekers to be able to work  ..oh BTW there is currently 17mil unemployed within the EU so how that works I don't know.

 

 

 

 

[Jarpie]

You can be reasonable and then you can make stupid generalisations like '15% of Muslims are radical'

I believe I said 15% of the people who are coming might be fundamentalists/fanatics/supremacists

Yeah, and 7.375% of them might be secret My Little Pony fans, what's your point? You basically made up a figure based on conclusions drawn a few dubious polls conducted on a grand total of 0.00000875% of the Muslim population and used it to make assumptions of the refugees. Not bad for a day's work.

My original question was if people would welcome in refugees/migrants from the east europe if something similar would happen as in Syria, and the said refugees would be 75% men and from the areas which would be known for having christian neo-nazis, I doubt it very much.

Read all of my messages in this topic, instead of cherry picking one poorly made one from the many arguments I've made.

But your original question was based on a chain of ifs and buts.

 

And last, let me ask you people question who will undoubetly call me racist or hate-monger, if same thing what has happened in Syria, would happen in a country like...say...Romania, Czech, Bulgaria, Hungary or other eastern european states and you'd suddenly start to get 300 000 - 400 000 refugees, and they'd be from the areas which are very known for having a lot of fundamentalist christian neo-nazis, would you invite them all in if 75% of them would be men with good chance of, say, 15% being neo-nazis? That's something like 20 000 - 30 000 white supremacists all across europe.

IF this was happening in a European country, and IF we took in 400000 refugees, and IF 75% of them were male, and IF 15% of them were nazis, so IF we had 30,000 white supremacists here, and IF they were let to do whatever they wanted in our country (or countries) then yes, that might be a problem.

But you've made that scenario up. It's in your head. It is not comparable to what's happening with Syrian refugees. So agreeing with your scenario being a bad thing is not the same as agreeing that accepting some syrian refugees is a bad thing.

Nobody is challenging your right to question the taking in of refugees. It's coming out with made up scenarios and statistics that bothers people.

 

It's like me saying "Well, Jarpie, let me ask you this. If this was happening in America, and we took in 200,000 American refugees, and 99% of them were totally normal, hard working, upstanding members of the community who would integrate into society and get a job and eventually contribute as much, if not more, to our country than any other native citizen, would you still think taking in refugees is a bad thing?"

You can't disagree with that question. But it bears no relevance to what is actually happening because I've made it up.

I already said that it was badly made argument, and you ignored pretty much everything else I've said. Hypotheticals are by their nature are "ifs and butts", better question probably would've been  that would you welcome in hundreds of thousands of refugees of which 75% would be men from Ukraine if Russia would start invading it, which I don't think is that far-fetched?

[MakemineVanilla]

http://mashable.com/2015/09/06/everyone-wants-to-be-syrian/

Basically now Germany has said the more the merrier if your from Syria , immigrants of other nationalities are lying about where they are from , posing as Syrian to gain access.

This is where the UK have it right , take the people in the most distress direct from the camps.

Be interesting to see what happens tomorrow when Juncker gives his EU state of Union speech where the EU will set out the figures countries are to take.

Germany don't care though, it really gets them out of a big population problem that was looming. They need lots of people. This way they look compassionate too (Yes Germany with good PR!)

Its not about the UK having it right. Germany have it right... for them theres no right and wrong here apart from Germany being a little dishonest with why they are taking so many

 

You have to admire the ruthless efficiency really. Get 'em in. Get 'em working and paying taxes. Boom. Looming pension/ageing population issue solved overnight. 

Only if Syrians never age.

[Eames]

http://mashable.com/2015/09/06/everyone-wants-to-be-syrian/

Basically now Germany has said the more the merrier if your from Syria , immigrants of other nationalities are lying about where they are from , posing as Syrian to gain access.

This is where the UK have it right , take the people in the most distress direct from the camps.

Be interesting to see what happens tomorrow when Juncker gives his EU state of Union speech where the EU will set out the figures countries are to take.

Germany don't care though, it really gets them out of a big population problem that was looming. They need lots of people. This way they look compassionate too (Yes Germany with good PR!)

Its not about the UK having it right. Germany have it right... for them theres no right and wrong here apart from Germany being a little dishonest with why they are taking so many

 

You have to admire the ruthless efficiency really. Get 'em in. Get 'em working and paying taxes. Boom. Looming pension/ageing population issue solved overnight. 

Only if Syrians never age.

The age but you can also guarantee they'll breed. More babies - population growth - pension gap closed. 

[Eames]

http://mashable.com/2015/09/06/everyone-wants-to-be-syrian/

Basically now Germany has said the more the merrier if your from Syria , immigrants of other nationalities are lying about where they are from , posing as Syrian to gain access.

This is where the UK have it right , take the people in the most distress direct from the camps.

Be interesting to see what happens tomorrow when Juncker gives his EU state of Union speech where the EU will set out the figures countries are to take.

Germany don't care though, it really gets them out of a big population problem that was looming. They need lots of people. This way they look compassionate too (Yes Germany with good PR!)

Its not about the UK having it right. Germany have it right... for them theres no right and wrong here apart from Germany being a little dishonest with why they are taking so many

 

You have to admire the ruthless efficiency really. Get 'em in. Get 'em working and paying taxes. Boom. Looming pension/ageing population issue solved overnight. 

Juncker has said today in his speech  Europe (Germany)  has ageing population and needs immigration ....Asylum seekers to be able to work  ..oh BTW there is currently 17mil unemployed within the EU so how that works I don't know.

 

 

 

 

Massive Generalisation incoming here. Its far easier to have a horde/swarm/deluge [/CallMeDave] of grateful refugees/immigrants into the country who can and will work bloody hard for low wages than to convince the indigenous mob who can't be arsed to work and have no real reason to to get off their arses and do something.