Refugee crisis

[Rugeley Villa]

i dont blame them for trying to get away to a better life but how the hell do we know who we are letting in? for all we know we could be letting thousands of terrorists in to join the other thousands of terrorists we already have. im not saying dont let anyone in even though we have more than enough hear already but we have got to be cautious. personally i think in the long term they will not want to go home and will add fire to a huge problem we already have, year after year i get more concerned with the muslim faith and imo rightly so. ive not been fortunate enough or unfortunate enough to have mingled with the muslim community or live amonst them so maybe my view is distorted but i just see what i see and believe me i really wish i could see things differently. for the record i think we should take our share of people but remember we are a small country which is very populated.

 

 

Think of some of the lads you grew up with, and some of the things you told us they went on to do. Drug addiction, GBH, didn't one of them even kill someone? None of them ever visited a mosque.

 

I don't buy the terrorist line either. The Irish have still killed more innocents on the mainland than Muslims have. The last (and only) Muslim attack of major significance was ten years ago. Granted it was a big one, but sit and have a beer with family members of anyone killed in the bombing of the Rotunda and see if they feel it was any more significant.

i dont blame them for trying to get away to a better life but how the hell do we know who we are letting in? for all we know we could be letting thousands of terrorists in to join the other thousands of terrorists we already have. im not saying dont let anyone in even though we have more than enough hear already but we have got to be cautious. personally i think in the long term they will not want to go home and will add fire to a huge problem we already have, year after year i get more concerned with the muslim faith and imo rightly so. ive not been fortunate enough or unfortunate enough to have mingled with the muslim community or live amonst them so maybe my view is distorted but i just see what i see and believe me i really wish i could see things differently. for the record i think we should take our share of people but remember we are a small country which is very populated.

 

 

Think of some of the lads you grew up with, and some of the things you told us they went on to do. Drug addiction, GBH, didn't one of them even kill someone? None of them ever visited a mosque.

 

I don't buy the terrorist line either. The Irish have still killed more innocents on the mainland than Muslims have. The last (and only) Muslim attack of major significance was ten years ago. Granted it was a big one, but sit and have a beer with family members of anyone killed in the bombing of the Rotunda and see if they feel it was any more significant.

i dont blame them for trying to get away to a better life but how the hell do we know who we are letting in? for all we know we could be letting thousands of terrorists in to join the other thousands of terrorists we already have. im not saying dont let anyone in even though we have more than enough hear already but we have got to be cautious. personally i think in the long term they will not want to go home and will add fire to a huge problem we already have, year after year i get more concerned with the muslim faith and imo rightly so. ive not been fortunate enough or unfortunate enough to have mingled with the muslim community or live amonst them so maybe my view is distorted but i just see what i see and believe me i really wish i could see things differently. for the record i think we should take our share of people but remember we are a small country which is very populated.

 

 

Think of some of the lads you grew up with, and some of the things you told us they went on to do. Drug addiction, GBH, didn't one of them even kill someone? None of them ever visited a mosque.

 

I don't buy the terrorist line either. The Irish have still killed more innocents on the mainland than Muslims have. The last (and only) Muslim attack of major significance was ten years ago. Granted it was a big one, but sit and have a beer with family members of anyone killed in the bombing of the Rotunda and see if they feel it was any more significant.

i dont blame them for trying to get away to a better life but how the hell do we know who we are letting in? for all we know we could be letting thousands of terrorists in to join the other thousands of terrorists we already have. im not saying dont let anyone in even though we have more than enough hear already but we have got to be cautious. personally i think in the long term they will not want to go home and will add fire to a huge problem we already have, year after year i get more concerned with the muslim faith and imo rightly so. ive not been fortunate enough or unfortunate enough to have mingled with the muslim community or live amonst them so maybe my view is distorted but i just see what i see and believe me i really wish i could see things differently. for the record i think we should take our share of people but remember we are a small country which is very populated.

 

 

Think of some of the lads you grew up with, and some of the things you told us they went on to do. Drug addiction, GBH, didn't one of them even kill someone? None of them ever visited a mosque.

 

I don't buy the terrorist line either. The Irish have still killed more innocents on the mainland than Muslims have. The last (and only) Muslim attack of major significance was ten years ago. Granted it was a big one, but sit and have a beer with family members of anyone killed in the bombing of the Rotunda and see if they feel it was any more significant.

i dont believe all muslims are bad and even going to a mosque is bad, infact ive got nothing against muslims believe it or not. 

[Awol]

i dont blame them for trying to get away to a better life but how the hell do we know who we are letting in? for all we know we could be letting thousands of terrorists in to join the other thousands of terrorists we already have. im not saying dont let anyone in even though we have more than enough hear already but we have got to be cautious. personally i think in the long term they will not want to go home and will add fire to a huge problem we already have, year after year i get more concerned with the muslim faith and imo rightly so. ive not been fortunate enough or unfortunate enough to have mingled with the muslim community or live amonst them so maybe my view is distorted but i just see what i see and believe me i really wish i could see things differently. for the record i think we should take our share of people but remember we are a small country which is very populated.

 

 

Think of some of the lads you grew up with, and some of the things you told us they went on to do. Drug addiction, GBH, didn't one of them even kill someone? None of them ever visited a mosque.

 

I don't buy the terrorist line either. The Irish have still killed more innocents on the mainland than Muslims have. The last (and only) Muslim attack of major significance was ten years ago. Granted it was a big one, but sit and have a beer with family members of anyone killed in the bombing of the Rotunda and see if they feel it was any more significant.

To be fair the inferior body count on mainland UK is not for want of trying. 

[NurembergVillan]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there haven't been efforts. The security services are doing a great job.

You could argue similarly around the IRA though. How many plots were foiled? How many didn't work out as planned - didn't that one on Smallbrook Queensway in 2001 involve a van with a tonne of Semtex in that didn't detonate properly? It was a Friday night too. Would've killed hundreds.

Edit - it was 30kg. Less dramatic. Still bad.

[lloydxmas]

Here's my half baked solution

How come the refugees didn't want to stay in Greece?? I know it's broke, but there's loads of unhabitated Islands and a pretty nice place to live compared to war torn syria.  Get Germany to loan them a bit more cash to setup infastruture on them.  Then In return the new Syrian government repays the Debt once everything is up and running.

 

 

[bickster]

Here's my half baked solution

How come the refugees didn't want to stay in Greece?? I know it's broke, but there's loads of unhabitated Islands and a pretty nice place to live compared to war torn syria.  Get Germany to loan them a bit more cash to setup infastruture on them.  Then In return the new Syrian government repays the Debt once everything is up and running.

 

 

Germany desperately needs the refugees, its population is in a massive decline. They haven't told you so because hey one upmanships great especially when you're doing what you need to do

[snowychap]

Just a little observation the vast majority of these immigrants cannot read or write...

How did you make this 'observation'?

[bickster]

Just a little observation the vast majority of these immigrants cannot read or write...

How did you make this 'observation'?

He read their prescription pads

[lloydxmas]

Definitely going to be a few terrorists mixed up with the genuine refugees.  This is what worries me, weve seen how dedicated ISIS are on crippling the west.  They play the media perfectly and must have been planning this for a long time.

What happens if 100 soldiers go on the rampage in central Munich?  Surely can't be that hard to get the guns?

Or am I watching too many films?  Bloody hope so

 

 

[villakram]

 

i dont blame them for trying to get away to a better life but how the hell do we know who we are letting in? for all we know we could be letting thousands of terrorists in to join the other thousands of terrorists we already have. im not saying dont let anyone in even though we have more than enough hear already but we have got to be cautious. personally i think in the long term they will not want to go home and will add fire to a huge problem we already have, year after year i get more concerned with the muslim faith and imo rightly so. ive not been fortunate enough or unfortunate enough to have mingled with the muslim community or live amonst them so maybe my view is distorted but i just see what i see and believe me i really wish i could see things differently. for the record i think we should take our share of people but remember we are a small country which is very populated.

Terrorists terrorists everywhere... O my god, the humanity. 

They hate us for our freedoms! and our drug/crime free utopian society, blaxtards!

Clearly what's required is to bomb the bejesus out of that wretched country and then we can bus them all back or something something. Wow, this neocon thought process is rather draining, hookers & blow for dinner tonight!

 

 

 

 

im clearly wrong then, stupid me. as for bombing them no im not for that at all, well yes if there is only people who believe in that warped shit there but come on we have a huge problem with islamic terrorism worldwide.

Do we? 

Another point of view would be that they are battling for the right of self-determination. How many middle eastern nations have been ruled for the past hundred yrs (and in many cases still are) by dictators backed by us (The West tm)?  Civil wars are normally quite nasty pieces of business and that is what dominates the current happenings in the middle east. We take some of the blow-back because we choose sides. In this case, what should the other side do? Apologize and go sit in the corner?

Lots of abhorrent things are occurring, but just because a guy in a mask beheads someone on youtube doesn't make it intrinsically worse than bombing a village from 10-30k feet. It's just that we don't see or hear about that, but in this case the tree falling in the woods can be heard scream!

 

Another way to characterize the size of the problem might be to consider the number of deaths in USA/Japan/Aus/EU in the past 10 yrs due to terrorism vs

1) Automative

2) Suicide

3) Obesity

4) Class A drug abuse

5) prescription med abuse

6) Alcohol

.....

 

Or you could count up the unit currency lost due to infrastructure/economic destruction versus the problems caused by the above list of more "natural" issues and or the destruction wraught by the wealthy/empowered classes in the past 10 yrs. 

"Terrorism" is way down the list, but why should we pay any attention to empirical evidence when emotive responses convey so much power to so few. 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 8, 2015 by villakram
continued musings

[chrisp65]

Did we get to the bottom of why the english can't wear caps in Treorchy?

[Nabby]

Here's my half baked solution

How come the refugees didn't want to stay in Greece?? I know it's broke, but there's loads of unhabitated Islands and a pretty nice place to live compared to war torn syria.  Get Germany to loan them a bit more cash to setup infastruture on them.  Then In return the new Syrian government repays the Debt once everything is up and running.

 

 

Germany desperately needs the refugees, its population is in a massive decline. They haven't told you so because hey one upmanships great especially when you're doing what you need to do

Good point 

 

Here's an article about that issue 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34172729

 

 

 

[Jarpie]

 

"Rugeley Villa" - "clearly wrong then, stupid me. as for bombing them no im not for that at all, well yes if there is only people who believe in that warped shit there but come on we have a huge problem with islamic terrorism worldwide."

 

Nope. Just misinformed.

 

The media are so complicit in the workings of the world. They protect the interests of billionaires by manipulating ordinary people. Turning us against each other.

 

They want you to believe Muslims are bad. It helps justify invading oil-rich countries under the guise of doing the right thing.

 

A good example of media manipulation is how The Sun and New York Times have printed a high amount of articles that are pro-fracking in the face of evidence that it's actually a bad thing.

 

Rupert Murdoch owns both newspapers. Rupert Murdoch is a major shareholder in a fracking company. Coincidence?

 

Don't just eat what the media feed you. Question why they want you to swallow it.

 

This will be a long one but bear with me.

As I wrote earlier, certain medias are trying to make it look like and convince people that every refugee/migrant coming to europe now are all innocent people who are all from the war-torn areas/countries, and that we all just should accept what they say without having any sceptical thoughts about the people we're letting in, and doubling down on anyone who disagrees with them, so it breeds mistrust toward the media and the migrants.

Big problem with the medias, for example, owned by the Murdoch is that they push and protect the interests of the billionairies and huge corporations, but on the other side of it I find that big problem with the media, especially the news media is that they think it's their job to influence public opinion according to their own politics, instead of actually impartially reporting the news, and when I've interacted with the so-called "journalists" they've always come across as arrogant, smug, defensive, and that they think they're superior to the plebs who are the common people, and that it's their duty to tell people what they should think, this goes to both left- and right-leaning journalists.

As one of the greats from the 20th century, the film director, professional reporter and WW2 veteran Samuel Fuller said, "Just report the news, don't editorialise, no adjectives", as almost everything what Fuller said or did, it's a bit of hyperbole but he's got a great point, reporter/journalist should IMO never editorialise the news items.

It's no wonder that conservative and/or right-wing parties are gaining popularity all across the europe, the swedish democrats are now the single biggest party in sweden, the finnish people voted in centre-party and the conservative the finns party in our elections, along with the national coalition party who are mostly pro-business/centre party, and two of our left parties; the left party and social democrats got massacred in the elections, much to the chagrin of the media and journalists.

In France The National Front is gaining popularity, according to my friend who's living in germany, just by the austrian border says that the left parties are getting hit hard and that right-wing party might actually win in austria in the next election.

IMO the reason why conservatives/right wing parties are gaining popularity is because that the leftist media and left parties are going toward more and more left, and pushing people who are in the centre/middle toward the right/conservatives, because they keep antagonizing and isolating themselves from the moderates, and as the centre parties are weak, spineless and gutless who are afraid of upsetting anyone, there's the right-wing parties ready to listen the moderates and use that to their advantage.

Why do I bring this up in the topic about refugees? Let me say it in the context of the refugee issue...the more the people and the media who are pro-immigration calls even those who are rational and civilized racists and hate-mongers if they even question the whole thing, it keeps pushing people on the centre/middle or who are sceptical toward being more against the immigrants and toward the right-wing politics, and it will radicalize people. It breeds us vs them mentality.

I abhor to think what kind of decisions right-wing/conservative parties will make in europe when they're in power, as they tend to be totalitarian and they tend to be against the personal freedom of the people.

I want an honest answer from people like StefanAVFC, do you think that there's no problems at all with letting all hundreds of thousands people in, as for example germany alone expects 800 000 arrivals this year, and not talk about rest of the europe, you don't think that 800 000 new people needing places to stay won't be a problem, or 40 000 new arrivals in finland, where most of our cities are small, and will put big strain on public- and social services? Why is it so horrible thing to question the whole thing and raise reasonable issues? Why is it so horrible to raise concerns that we have no idea where these people are, who they are and are they actually refugees or just migrants who wants to move to the richer countries, and taking places of the actual people who would need the assylum the most?

I think it's very important to critically think pretty much everything and questions must be raised, no matter how uncomfortable or inconvinient the subject is.

[Shaw_nuff]

That\s patently stupid then.

UK debt - 1.5 trillion pounds.

USA debt = 'I'll leave you with a little link: US Debt Clock

This will never be paid back. There's no more tricks left. This is going Weimar Republic. 

'The enormous wealth in Europe' LOL.

Run out of money????? That's patently silly given the enormous wealth in Europe.

That nations are racking up some crazy debts matters not a jot as this has been happening since the beginning of the nation state as a construct, and was happening with the little kingdoms before that too. Bankruptcy solves these things and we move on... of course we have the benefit of our benevolent banking overlords printing cash nowadays and engaging in all sorts of rule writing and changing, so who knows what will happen.

Question: If I give you control of the game and the ability to (re)write the rules as required, would you be able to keep the ball rolling (or get us a home win against manure)?

  

 

 

 

 

[bickster]

That\s patently stupid then.

UK debt - 1.5 trillion pounds.

USA debt = 'I'll leave you with a little link: US Debt Clock

This will never be paid back. There's no more tricks left. This is going Weimar Republic. 

'The enormous wealth in Europe' LOL.

You do know that money is pretty much in the imagination of  bankers and given licence to do so by governments. Money on that scale is not like running your house. The sooner people wise up to this fact the better. Debt is meaningless in a global context

[StefanAVFC]

You can be reasonable and then you can make stupid generalisations like '15% of Muslims are radical'

[Ikantcpell]

I'm actually having to explain this to you.

You're profiling a group of people who look Muslim because of their skin colour (see: race) based on your own personal experiences.

Ergo: Racist.

Iam profiling a group of people who have just arrived to a new country and already causing havoc by breaking chairs and tables, i have personal experience with muslims behaving very badly when not getting halal food, so i asked if maybe the people on the video was upset cause they were not getting halal food ?

And for that you are calling me a racist ?

Oh well, i can stand being called a racist by people whose opinion i don't respect.

 

 

[NurembergVillan]

I think it's absolutely fine to question the motives or potential behaviour of some of the refugees.  I think it's normal to be concerned about how we manage the processing of them, the integration of them, the financing of them.

It brings me again back to why there are such gaping tax loopholes that mean huge corporations can get away with paying minimal tax while the ordinary folk worry about paying their rent. I read last year (and I haven't checked how accurate it is) that the tax Boots had avoided in the last 12 months could provide free prescriptions for the whole of Britain for 3 years.  Worrying about the economic impact of refugees shouldn't be a concern. It's buttons in the grand scheme of things.  We should be asking why the government aren't doing more to boost the coffers in other ways.

No doubt at some stage the media will start spreading horror stories about the refugees and how the Syrians are leading crimewaves or whatever. It'll just be another distraction tactic from what's really going on.  Rupert Murdoch is just an evil version of David Copperfield with an army of typewriter-wielding monkeys.

As for that video earlier in the thread - why hasn't his been reported anywhere, that I can find, and the video only has 250 views? There is no proof that the people are Syrians, that the trouble is in Germany OR that it's recent footage.  It could literally be anything.

[StefanAVFC]

I'm actually having to explain this to you.

You're profiling a group of people who look Muslim because of their skin colour (see: race) based on your own personal experiences.

Ergo: Racist.

Iam profiling a group of people who have just arrived to a new country and already causing havoc by breaking chairs and tables, i have personal experience with muslims behaving very badly when not getting halal food, so i asked if maybe the people on the video was upset cause they were not getting halal food ?

And for that you are calling me a racist ?

Oh well, i can stand being called a racist by people whose opinion i don't respect.

 

 

You had a personal experience so you're profiling an entire group of people with the same brush. Especially when you had no idea about the context of the video. It's insulting.

It's like me saying I've had an experience with a racist person from Malmo, so that means all people from Malmo are racist.

It's so daft.

Never mind that your comment about halal food is wrong because of the large Turkish population in Germany meaning halal is freely available.

Edited September 8, 2015 by StefanAVFC

[NurembergVillan]

I'm actually having to explain this to you.

You're profiling a group of people who look Muslim because of their skin colour (see: race) based on your own personal experiences.

Ergo: Racist.

Iam profiling a group of people who have just arrived to a new country and already causing havoc by breaking chairs and tables, i have personal experience with muslims behaving very badly when not getting halal food, so i asked if maybe the people on the video was upset cause they were not getting halal food ?

As I mentioned just now, any evidence that this video is what you claim it to be? There are no reports that I can find anywhere.

[Ikantcpell]

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJQ1a0Cmsk4

Safe in germany but still not very happy, i wonder why, no halal food?

What, exactly, is your point? 

You dont get it do you ?

People fleeing from war, Germany welcomes them in and they behave like this?

Are we supposed to be surprised when people from a war zone get a little tense and occassionally fight eachother (btw!) in a crowded, makeshift camp? Is this supposed to make them in any less need of refuge? 

Yes iam shocked by their behaviour, you dont come to a country who saved your life and behave like this, you just dont.