Refugee crisis

[Jarpie]

 

If I'd go back 1,5-2 years in your posting history, would I find posts where you'd call europeans to bring in ukranian refugees from the Crimea and Ukraine when Russians invaded Crimea?

 

 

I have no idea. I don't think I discussed the situation much on here. You certainly wouldn't see me opposing it.

But I don't see the relevance of that question. 

If I'm not opposed to Syrian refugees, why would I be opposed to Ukrainian ones?

I don't see what you're getting at. I have a feeling you don't either.

I've seen so many people spouting how europe needs to bring in all those poor middle-easterns in here and how they need to be helped, and how we need to show solidarity yada yada, just to show that they're supposedly "so progressive" and/or "so good people", but the same people were so **** quiet when there was that earthquake in nepal six months ago, and it didn't get nearly the same attention in the media.

I find those people to be utter hypocrites, if they'd really be such a good people they would've raised the same storm that european states need to bring in refugees from Nepal and pressured the european states to give much more humanitarian aid to the Nepal to bring them back up.

Same goes for the Ukraine in 2014 when the rebels started to fight in Ukraine and Russians invaded Crimea, sure it got media attention and it was followed by the news but I didn't see anyone saying how we need to bring in the Ukranian refugees from Crimea or Ukraine to the europe.

I was poking to see if you are one of those hypocrties, as so many others are, when the next big crisis starts somewhere in the world, I trust you to call out EU to bring the refugees in, as you are calling in to welcome the current migrants.

About the current refugee/migrant situation and the Ukranian crisis:

The news stories were much more carefully worded and the same leftist and "progressive" journalists/media who are now crying about the poor down-trodden syrian (or "syrian", depending who you believe) refugees (or "refugees", depending on who you believe), and anyone who questions them is a **** right-wing neo-nazi racist, made it so **** sure that there's not a single one of those "human interest" stories or photographs of the children in the battlefields to garner sympathy for the Ukranians, also I didn't see any stories how the ukranians' familes were broken, or how their lives are ruined due the warzones where the rebels and russians started to fight, at least not in the single one of the finnish news sites nor in the international european media I saw.

Neither I saw any interviews from the Ukranian refugee camps, or footage shown how utter shit are the conditions in the said camps.

Just so that you don't think I like conservative and/or right-wing media any better, I don't. They are equally manipulative and hypocritical as the leftie/"progressive" ones.

I just want even a single impartial and neutral news media who will just report the **** news without **** editorializing and trying to affect the public opinion toward the causes/people/politics they themselves hold or agree with, the finnish equivalent for BBC, Yle, used to be like that but now they've gone more and more toward the left from the impartial/centre.

Disclaimer: I used "crying about the poor down-trodden" just to show how differently the media depicts the Syrian and Ukranian conflicts, and Nepal disaster, I think all of those three things are pretty much equally horrible events, and the people who would need our aid, should get it.

Eh? I must be forgetting those streams of Ukrainian and Nepalese asylum seekers, I strangely can't seem to recall them at all . . . 

You mean these two million refugees, of which 800 000 have left Ukraine?

http://www.euronews.com/2015/04/22/ukraine-crisis-has-created-more-than-2-million-refugees-un-reports/

edit: also http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/13/ukraines-refugees-find-solace-in-poland-europes-most-homogenous-society

Edited September 10, 2015 by Jarpie

[Rugeley Villa]

I can deny it because it's utter bollocks. Name me a town or city that's being 'taken over'.

None of our towns and cities are being taken over by Muslims. The non-white population of the UK is only 13% and only 7% of that is asian.

Stop believing Facebook memes and scaremongering with no research.

Please.

we will use birmingham as an example, there are parts that are completely taken over by muslims and im not just on about a couple of areas also what do you think is going to happen over the years? i know, its going to get a lot worse because thats all it can get. birmingham  not a muslim city but at somepoint it will be as good as and thats unacceptable, the thing is stefan your looking at me thinking what the hell is he on about and that im so wrong, but im doing the same to you and other people, i just cant believe people dont see whats happening. i hate coming across that i have a problem with muslims in general because i dont, and i know there are muslim members on this forum and they seem like decent people but i have a problem with all the shit islam is causing because i dont think its very peaceful but thats just my opinion and it does not make me any worse than someone whos politically correct. i hear it all the time, bomb the lot of them, nuke em,world would be better without them, NO i just want the world to be at peace with each other and islam to show the world something different. wherever islam is practised there is trouble, be it the uk,europe,asia,scandinavia,africa the list goes on and filling europe with more muslim migrants willonly create more trouble but what can we do.

[StefanAVFC]

I get that Ruge, but really your worry is totally misplaced. The proportion of Muslims that are fanatic/dangerous is so minimal.

Birmingham has a Muslim population but the white population is still massively higher. If Birmingham comes a Muslim city (what does that even mean?) then that would be wrong. But it's not going to happen. Not a chance. You even said you don't have experience of living with Muslims or near Muslims so your opinion is based on what? What you're told? Stop buying the propaganda that our country is somehow being taken over. If you look at migration figures, Muslims who come over don't just come in and sit on the dole. They come in and fill in key jobs. It's nothing to do with political correctness. It's just wrong. 

You're saying I'm wrong, but based on what? The figures certainly suggest my viewpoint is correct.

If anything, the animosity towards Muslims generated by the far right (which you seem to have bought into, not saying you're racist or anything because you're not) is creating more issues because Muslims will get pissed off at being generalised and attacked.

[Awol]

Tell you what RugeleyV, I admire the fact you've got the gumption to tell it exactly as you see it. Not saying I agree with every word but if fewer people followed the crowd and actually spoke their mind the world would be a better place.

[Rugeley Villa]

id love nothing more for my worry to be misplaced stefan and i do hope im wrong because if i aint then i dread to think .

[Stevo985]

 

If I'd go back 1,5-2 years in your posting history, would I find posts where you'd call europeans to bring in ukranian refugees from the Crimea and Ukraine when Russians invaded Crimea?

 

 

I have no idea. I don't think I discussed the situation much on here. You certainly wouldn't see me opposing it.

But I don't see the relevance of that question. 

If I'm not opposed to Syrian refugees, why would I be opposed to Ukrainian ones?

I don't see what you're getting at. I have a feeling you don't either.

I've seen so many people spouting how europe needs to bring in all those poor middle-easterns in here and how they need to be helped, and how we need to show solidarity yada yada, just to show that they're supposedly "so progressive" and/or "so good people", but the same people were so **** quiet when there was that earthquake in nepal six months ago, and it didn't get nearly the same attention in the media.

I find those people to be utter hypocrites, if they'd really be such a good people they would've raised the same storm that european states need to bring in refugees from Nepal and pressured the european states to give much more humanitarian aid to the Nepal to bring them back up.

Same goes for the Ukraine in 2014 when the rebels started to fight in Ukraine and Russians invaded Crimea, sure it got media attention and it was followed by the news but I didn't see anyone saying how we need to bring in the Ukranian refugees from Crimea or Ukraine to the europe.

I was poking to see if you are one of those hypocrties, as so many others are, when the next big crisis starts somewhere in the world, I trust you to call out EU to bring the refugees in, as you are calling in to welcome the current migrants.

About the current refugee/migrant situation and the Ukranian crisis:

The news stories were much more carefully worded and the same leftist and "progressive" journalists/media who are now crying about the poor down-trodden syrian (or "syrian", depending who you believe) refugees (or "refugees", depending on who you believe), and anyone who questions them is a **** right-wing neo-nazi racist, made it so **** sure that there's not a single one of those "human interest" stories or photographs of the children in the battlefields to garner sympathy for the Ukranians, also I didn't see any stories how the ukranians' familes were broken, or how their lives are ruined due the warzones where the rebels and russians started to fight, at least not in the single one of the finnish news sites nor in the international european media I saw.

Neither I saw any interviews from the Ukranian refugee camps, or footage shown how utter shit are the conditions in the said camps.

Just so that you don't think I like conservative and/or right-wing media any better, I don't. They are equally manipulative and hypocritical as the leftie/"progressive" ones.

I just want even a single impartial and neutral news media who will just report the **** news without **** editorializing and trying to affect the public opinion toward the causes/people/politics they themselves hold or agree with, the finnish equivalent for BBC, Yle, used to be like that but now they've gone more and more toward the left from the impartial/centre.

Disclaimer: I used "crying about the poor down-trodden" just to show how differently the media depicts the Syrian and Ukranian conflicts, and Nepal disaster, I think all of those three things are pretty much equally horrible events, and the people who would need our aid, should get it.

What a load of utter, utter shite.

 

You've wandered way off the original conversation and appear to be trying to construct some strange argument against the media with me as some sort of leverage, based on me not announcing my calls for refugee acceptance at every disaster/warzone that there has ever been. It's so convoluted I don't even know where to start in reply.

Fwiw, my mother is an immigrant, so my stance on immigration has been pretty consistent for my whole life. If you want to trawl through my posting history then go right ahead, I'll leave you to it for now.

[Rugeley Villa]

Tell you what RugeleyV, I admire the fact you've got the gumption to tell it exactly as you see it. Not saying I agree with every word but if fewer people followed the crowd and actually spoke their mind the world would be a better place.

honestly my views and how i see things are truly horrible, maybe its just my nature but this is not someone who has hate for muslims or has far right views because i cant stand the far right, this is someone who is genuinely worried about what i think is  happening. people may laugh or poke fun but its something that bothers me and thats just the way it is, im not one of these union jack or st george kind of blokes although im proud to be british.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Rugeley Villa

[villakram]

@Rugeley Villa

Why would it be so terrible if Birmingham became as Muslim city? I mean one group of people who believe in mystical sky fairies versus another group who's king sky fairy is the same but hangs out with a cooler crowd... they're both a bit silly. Christians for example do plenty of very screwy stuff. Most of the members of the RAF who bomb various villages full of brown people are Christian for example as are all those chavs, geordy shore and Ibiza uncovered types.

If you said what you were saying about black people you'd be labelled a clear as day racist... but muslims are fair game for some reason.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Stevo985]

Even if it was happening, what exactly is wrong with parts of Birmingham being "taken over" by Islam?

[Rugeley Villa]

because this is NOT an islamic country. we would not get away with filling any city in the middle east with our lot, we cant even build churches over there but mosques are flying up like its the new fashion over here. if anyone thinks its acceptable to have a muslim,sikh or even a fully white city then thats complete bullshit.

[Rugeley Villa]

@Rugeley Villa

Why would it be so terrible if Birmingham became as Muslim city? I mean one group of people who believe in mystical sky fairies versus another group who's king sky fairy is the same but hangs out with a cooler crowd... they're both a bit silly. Christians for example do plenty of very screwy stuff. Most of the members of the RAF who bomb various villages full of brown people are Christian for example as are all those chavs, geordy shore and Ibiza uncovered types.

If you said what you were saying about black people you'd be labelled a clear as day racist... but muslims are fair game for some reason.

thing is we cant really have an opinion on muslims because its racist, we cant fly the flag because its racist and we cant offend anyone that comes into our country. you cant even compare christianity to islam at the moment, its ridiculious.

[Stevo985]

because this is NOT an islamic country. we would not get away with filling any city in the middle east with our lot, we cant even build churches over there but mosques are flying up like its the new fashion over here. if anyone thinks its acceptable to have a muslim,sikh or even a fully white city then thats complete bullshit.

This isn't an Islamic country. What difference does that make?

India isn't a Christian country but there are areas of it that are 90% Christian. What's the difference?

 

There are plenty of "our lot" in the middle east. They don't fill cities but they're there. There's plenty of churches too. 

[snowychap]

Even if it was happening, what exactly is wrong with parts of Birmingham being "taken over" by Islam?

I'd object to anywhere being 'taken over' by Islam (as much as I would anywhere being 'taken over' by Christianity or whatever religion).

I've been making the assumption that 'taken over' (by muslims or whoever) referred to that particular group of people being the majority of those that live in a particular area - something which I don't have a problem with and which I find difficult to see as a problem.

[Stevo985]

Even if it was happening, what exactly is wrong with parts of Birmingham being "taken over" by Islam?

I'd object to anywhere being 'taken over' by Islam (as much as I would anywhere being 'taken over' by Christianity or whatever religion).

I've been making the assumption that 'taken over' (by muslims or whoever) referred to that particular group of people being the majority of those that live in a particular area - something which I don't have a problem with and which I find difficult to see as a problem.

That was the assumption I was making. That "taking over" meant being the majority.

If it meant something more sinister then of course that might be a different matter.

 

Edit: I'd also say that if it meant something more sinister then it's even more unlikely to happen.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Stevo985

[OutByEaster?]

I think what's interesting is the sort of "British" Islam that develops; in our society, we're moving more and more in the direction where the young are less religious than their parents, who were less religious than their parents. Exposure to news and media and alternatives and different lifestyles and understanding the similarities with the non-muslims they see at school (and vice versa) makes people that little bit less convinced of their faith I think. In the same way that there are lapsed, or buffet catholics, I think we're seeing the same in Muslim communities, especially amongst the women. I think that's quite positive and I would hope we'll become a more and more secular society of people who come from wherever.

The thing that's pushing young people and particularly young muslims away from that drift is the media projection of the muslim menace - by adding peril and danger, and giving people something to defend, we encourage them to become more devout and in a society that's headed the other way, they stick out even more than would usually be the case.

The key to changing Islam (and religious attitudes across all faiths) is to remember that religion isn't really important, it doesn't define people, it shouldn't bind them into communities. Ignore, mix and dissipate.

 

 

 

[limpid]

because this is NOT an islamic country. we would not get away with filling any city in the middle east with our lot, we cant even build churches over there but mosques are flying up like its the new fashion over here. if anyone thinks its acceptable to have a muslim,sikh or even a fully white city then thats complete bullshit.

Some of us don't want anyone building churches "over here" nor any other taxpayer funded superstitious bollocks.

[Rugeley Villa]

because this is NOT an islamic country. we would not get away with filling any city in the middle east with our lot, we cant even build churches over there but mosques are flying up like its the new fashion over here. if anyone thinks its acceptable to have a muslim,sikh or even a fully white city then thats complete bullshit.

Some of us don't want anyone building churches "over here" nor any other taxpayer funded superstitious bollocks.

im not a church man myself but i was just pointing out.

[foreveryoung]

 

If I'd go back 1,5-2 years in your posting history, would I find posts where you'd call europeans to bring in ukranian refugees from the Crimea and Ukraine when Russians invaded Crimea?

 

 

I have no idea. I don't think I discussed the situation much on here. You certainly wouldn't see me opposing it.

But I don't see the relevance of that question. 

If I'm not opposed to Syrian refugees, why would I be opposed to Ukrainian ones?

I don't see what you're getting at. I have a feeling you don't either.

I've seen so many people spouting how europe needs to bring in all those poor middle-easterns in here and how they need to be helped, and how we need to show solidarity yada yada, just to show that they're supposedly "so progressive" and/or "so good people", but the same people were so **** quiet when there was that earthquake in nepal six months ago, and it didn't get nearly the same attention in the media.

I find those people to be utter hypocrites, if they'd really be such a good people they would've raised the same storm that european states need to bring in refugees from Nepal and pressured the european states to give much more humanitarian aid to the Nepal to bring them back up.

Same goes for the Ukraine in 2014 when the rebels started to fight in Ukraine and Russians invaded Crimea, sure it got media attention and it was followed by the news but I didn't see anyone saying how we need to bring in the Ukranian refugees from Crimea or Ukraine to the europe.

I was poking to see if you are one of those hypocrties, as so many others are, when the next big crisis starts somewhere in the world, I trust you to call out EU to bring the refugees in, as you are calling in to welcome the current migrants.

About the current refugee/migrant situation and the Ukranian crisis:

The news stories were much more carefully worded and the same leftist and "progressive" journalists/media who are now crying about the poor down-trodden syrian (or "syrian", depending who you believe) refugees (or "refugees", depending on who you believe), and anyone who questions them is a **** right-wing neo-nazi racist, made it so **** sure that there's not a single one of those "human interest" stories or photographs of the children in the battlefields to garner sympathy for the Ukranians, also I didn't see any stories how the ukranians' familes were broken, or how their lives are ruined due the warzones where the rebels and russians started to fight, at least not in the single one of the finnish news sites nor in the international european media I saw.

Neither I saw any interviews from the Ukranian refugee camps, or footage shown how utter shit are the conditions in the said camps.

Just so that you don't think I like conservative and/or right-wing media any better, I don't. They are equally manipulative and hypocritical as the leftie/"progressive" ones.

I just want even a single impartial and neutral news media who will just report the **** news without **** editorializing and trying to affect the public opinion toward the causes/people/politics they themselves hold or agree with, the finnish equivalent for BBC, Yle, used to be like that but now they've gone more and more toward the left from the impartial/centre.

Disclaimer: I used "crying about the poor down-trodden" just to show how differently the media depicts the Syrian and Ukranian conflicts, and Nepal disaster, I think all of those three things are pretty much equally horrible events, and the people who would need our aid, should get it.

What a load of utter, utter shite.

 

You've wandered way off the original conversation and appear to be trying to construct some strange argument against the media with me as some sort of leverage, based on me not announcing my calls for refugee acceptance at every disaster/warzone that there has ever been. It's so convoluted I don't even know where to start in reply.

Fwiw, my mother is an immigrant, so my stance on immigration has been pretty consistent for my whole life. If you want to trawl through my posting history then go right ahead, I'll leave you to it for now.

Not disrespect chap, but the sentance above explains everyone of your posts on here, an I do mean no disrepect. But to start, your a gonna be a little biased on Camerons latest immigration/refugee policy. Also what I have seen from your posts is alot of backing on letting all the refugees into our country but no real positives we may reap from it. So how is gonna help us letting another 10000+ into our small over populated island, because even though I am not opposed to immigration, I cannot see many postives to allowing more to settle here.

[Rugeley Villa]

because this is NOT an islamic country. we would not get away with filling any city in the middle east with our lot, we cant even build churches over there but mosques are flying up like its the new fashion over here. if anyone thinks its acceptable to have a muslim,sikh or even a fully white city then thats complete bullshit.

This isn't an Islamic country. What difference does that make?

India isn't a Christian country but there are areas of it that are 90% Christian. What's the difference?

 

There are plenty of "our lot" in the middle east. They don't fill cities but they're there. There's plenty of churches too. 

compare christianity in the muslim world to islam in the western world, dont need to say much more.

[limpid]

because this is NOT an islamic country. we would not get away with filling any city in the middle east with our lot, we cant even build churches over there but mosques are flying up like its the new fashion over here. if anyone thinks its acceptable to have a muslim,sikh or even a fully white city then thats complete bullshit.

Some of us don't want anyone building churches "over here" nor any other taxpayer funded superstitious bollocks.

im not a church man myself but i was just pointing out.

I'm not really sure what your point is though. What difference does the religion of refugees make? Either they are refugees or they aren't. Or did you forget which thread you were in?