Refugee crisis

[Shaw_nuff]

That\s patently stupid then.

UK debt - 1.5 trillion pounds.

USA debt = 'I'll leave you with a little link: US Debt Clock

This will never be paid back. There's no more tricks left. This is going Weimar Republic. 

'The enormous wealth in Europe' LOL.

You do know that money is pretty much in the imagination of  bankers and given licence to do so by governments. Money on that scale is not like running your house. The sooner people wise up to this fact the better. Debt is meaningless in a global context

 

I agree that money is an illusion. Debt is real. Otherwise there'd be no austerity and we'd just keep racking up debt with no concern, dropping cash from helicopters. Debt is not meaningless - it's borrowing from the future and 40 years of neo liberal theft has led to this point - near unserviceable debt. When it becomes unserviceable the whole thing will crack... much much worse than 2008.

 

Actually, I must add that there are some parallels with household debt. People buy houses snd take on huge mortgages in the belief that the price will only ever go up and that the ponzi scheme/bubble will never end. ALL bubble and ponzi schemes end. Tulip bubble, South-sea bubble, dotcom bubble etc. The one that will bring the UK to its knees will be the housing bubble bursting now the Chinese can;t afford prime London any longer.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Shaw_nuff

[StefanAVFC]

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJQ1a0Cmsk4

Safe in germany but still not very happy, i wonder why, no halal food?

What, exactly, is your point? 

You dont get it do you ?

People fleeing from war, Germany welcomes them in and they behave like this?

Are we supposed to be surprised when people from a war zone get a little tense and occassionally fight eachother (btw!) in a crowded, makeshift camp? Is this supposed to make them in any less need of refuge? 

Yes iam shocked by their behaviour, you dont come to a country who saved your life and behave like this, you just dont.

Any proof that the video is of what you claim? Or that it's even refugees? Or Muslims?

[foreveryoung]

Its reasonable asking the question how the UK is going to handle another 10-20-50-100 thousand imigrants/refugess into the country, when, which has already been said, the country is struggling with the population we have at the moment. NHS,councils, charity cut backs.

Im all for helping people in need, but like most of us, surely we have to help ourselves first.

[Ikantcpell]

I'm actually having to explain this to you.

You're profiling a group of people who look Muslim because of their skin colour (see: race) based on your own personal experiences.

Ergo: Racist.

Iam profiling a group of people who have just arrived to a new country and already causing havoc by breaking chairs and tables, i have personal experience with muslims behaving very badly when not getting halal food, so i asked if maybe the people on the video was upset cause they were not getting halal food ?

As I mentioned just now, any evidence that this video is what you claim it to be? There are no reports that I can find anywhere.

Claiming? if you read my post again you will see that i didnt claim anything, i asked a question.

[Jarpie]

You can be reasonable and then you can make stupid generalisations like '15% of Muslims are radical'

I believe I said 15% of the people who are coming might be fundamentalists/fanatics/supremacists, and given the gallups below I found through google, and if they are right that 19% of the muslims who lives in america think that violence is justified in order to make sharia the law in USA, you don't think those 19% of american-muslims are fundamentalist or radical?

Edit: it might be lower but I'd probably say anywhere from 5% to 10% would be reasonable assumption, 15% might be tad high.

"Pew Research (2014): 47% of Bangladeshi Muslims says suicide bombings and violence are justified to "defend Islam".  1 in 4 believed the same in Tanzania and Egypt.  1 in 5 Muslims in the 'moderate' countries of Turkey and Malaysia."

http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/07/01/concerns-about-islamic-extremism-on-the-rise-in-middle-east/

The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015): 19% of Muslim-Americans say that violence is justified in order to make Sharia the law in the United States (66% disagree).
http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/150612-CSP-Polling-Company-Nationwide-Online-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf

The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015): 25% of Muslim-Americans say that violence against Americans in the United States is justified as part of the "global Jihad (64% disagree).
http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/150612-CSP-Polling-Company-Nationwide-Online-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf

Pew Research (2011): 8% of Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified (81% never).
28% of Egyptian Muslims believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified (38% never).
http://www.people-press.org/2011/08/30/muslim-americans-no-signs-of-growth-in-alienation-or-support-for-extremism/

World Public Opinion: 61% of Egyptians approve of attacks on Americans
32% of Indonesians approve of attacks on Americans
41% of Pakistanis approve of attacks on Americans
38% of Moroccans approve of attacks on Americans
83% of Palestinians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (only 14% oppose)
62% of Jordanians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (21% oppose)
42% of Turks approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (45% oppose)
A minority of Muslims disagreed entirely with terror attacks on Americans:
(Egypt 34%; Indonesia 45%; Pakistan 33%)
About half of those opposed to attacking Americans were sympathetic with al-Qaeda’s attitude toward the U.S.
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/feb09/STARTII_Feb09_rpt.pdf

Edited September 8, 2015 by Jarpie

[StefanAVFC]

I'm actually having to explain this to you.

You're profiling a group of people who look Muslim because of their skin colour (see: race) based on your own personal experiences.

Ergo: Racist.

Iam profiling a group of people who have just arrived to a new country and already causing havoc by breaking chairs and tables, i have personal experience with muslims behaving very badly when not getting halal food, so i asked if maybe the people on the video was upset cause they were not getting halal food ?

As I mentioned just now, any evidence that this video is what you claim it to be? There are no reports that I can find anywhere.

Claiming? if you read my post again you will see that i didnt claim anything, i asked a question.

You made an (ill-researched at best) joke based on a video that has no claim or evidence that it is what it is.

[StefanAVFC]

Its reasonable asking the question how the UK is going to handle another 10-20-50-100 thousand imigrants/refugess into the country, when, which has already been said, the country is struggling with the population we have at the moment. NHS,councils, charity cut backs.

Im all for helping people in need, but like most of us, surely we have to help ourselves first.

It isn't struggling though. If the government enforced tax bills we'd be absolutely fine. The cost of welfare is pennies compared to the missing tax bills.

Why do we need to help ourselves first? Because we were born here? It's basically a lottery where you're born. Why are we any more deserving?

[chrisp65]

Its reasonable asking the question how the UK is going to handle another 10-20-50-100 thousand imigrants/refugess into the country, when, which has already been said, the country is struggling with the population we have at the moment. NHS,councils, charity cut backs.

Im all for helping people in need, but like most of us, surely we have to help ourselves first.

The UK has committed to 4,000 refugees per annum.

As the last net migration figures were over 300,000 inward per annum, this doesn't look like a game changer to me.

[villakram]

That\s patently stupid then.

UK debt - 1.5 trillion pounds.

USA debt = 'I'll leave you with a little link: US Debt Clock

This will never be paid back. There's no more tricks left. This is going Weimar Republic. 

'The enormous wealth in Europe' LOL.

You do know that money is pretty much in the imagination of  bankers and given licence to do so by governments. Money on that scale is not like running your house. The sooner people wise up to this fact the better. Debt is meaningless in a global context

 

I agree that money is an illusion. Debt is real. Otherwise there'd be no austerity and we'd just keep racking up debt with no concern, dropping cash from helicopters. Debt is not meaningless - it's borrowing from the future and 40 years of neo liberal theft has led to this point - near unserviceable debt. When it becomes unserviceable the whole thing will crack... much much worse than 2008.

 

Actually, I must add that there are some parallels with household debt. People buy houses snd take on huge mortgages in the belief that the price will only ever go up and that the ponzi scheme/bubble will never end. ALL bubble and ponzi schemes end. Tulip bubble, South-sea bubble, dotcom bubble etc. The one that will bring the UK to its knees will be the housing bubble bursting now the Chinese can;t afford prime London any longer.

errr... not really. If I owe you 100 trillion and you owe me 100 trillion, does anybody owe anybody anything?

On a fundamental basis what you say is in principle correct, but the current era of unprecedented communication/coordination may allow new hitherto unappreciated possibilities. I mean we do have negative interest rates in a number of countries right now... NEGATIVE!

 

[snowychap]

...does anybody owe anybody anything?

Is it just me or did anyone else sing that to themselves in the style of Howard Jones?

Edited September 8, 2015 by snowychap

[El Zen]

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJQ1a0Cmsk4

Safe in germany but still not very happy, i wonder why, no halal food?

What, exactly, is your point? 

You dont get it do you ?

People fleeing from war, Germany welcomes them in and they behave like this?

Are we supposed to be surprised when people from a war zone get a little tense and occassionally fight eachother (btw!) in a crowded, makeshift camp? Is this supposed to make them in any less need of refuge? 

Yes iam shocked by their behaviour, you dont come to a country who saved your life and behave like this, you just dont.

Now, for the sake of argument, let's go along with your assumptions that these people are indeed Syrians, hell maybe they're even fighting over halal food or which way is Mecca. There are, at most, 40 people fighting in that video. What conclusions about the entire population of Syrian refugees can we draw from the behaviour of 40 individuals? 

 Regardless, if this event is so shocking to you, I'd recommend doing some research on the psychology of human trauma. And, finally, you didn't really adress the - by far - more important question. 

Edited September 8, 2015 by Michelsen

[Ikantcpell]

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJQ1a0Cmsk4

Safe in germany but still not very happy, i wonder why, no halal food?

What, exactly, is your point? 

You dont get it do you ?

People fleeing from war, Germany welcomes them in and they behave like this?

Are we supposed to be surprised when people from a war zone get a little tense and occassionally fight eachother (btw!) in a crowded, makeshift camp? Is this supposed to make them in any less need of refuge? 

Yes iam shocked by their behaviour, you dont come to a country who saved your life and behave like this, you just dont.

Now, for the sake of argument, let's go along with your assumptions that these people are indeed Syrians, hell maybe they're even fighting over halal food or which way is Mecca. There are, at most, 40 people fighting in that video. What conclusions about the entire population of Syrian refugees can we draw from the behaviour of 40 individuals? 

 Regardless, if this event is so shocking to you, I'd recommend doing some research on the psychology of human trauma. And, finally, you didn't really adress the - by far - more important question. 

What has the whole population of syria got to do with the scum in that video ?

[El Zen]

Read it again! 

[Ikantcpell]

Read it again! 

Answer my question

[Ikantcpell]

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJQ1a0Cmsk4

Safe in germany but still not very happy, i wonder why, no halal food?

What, exactly, is your point? 

You dont get it do you ?

People fleeing from war, Germany welcomes them in and they behave like this?

Are we supposed to be surprised when people from a war zone get a little tense and occassionally fight eachother (btw!) in a crowded, makeshift camp? Is this supposed to make them in any less need of refuge? 

Yes iam shocked by their behaviour, you dont come to a country who saved your life and behave like this, you just dont.

Any proof that the video is of what you claim? Or that it's even refugees? Or Muslims?

Ofcourse, a friend of a friend filmed it, that's good enough for you ?

[El Zen]

I'm wondering what the people in the video - if they are indeed Syrian - have to do with the entire population of Syrian refugees. In other words, by posting that video, what was your intended contribution to the debate on the refugee crisis? What did you intend to illustrate? 

Your question suggested you hadn't properly read my post, so I proposed you read it again. Now it's your turn to answer the bloody question. 

[villakram]

...does anybody owe anybody anything?

Is it just me or did anyone else sing that to themselves in the style of Howard Jones?

bwahahahaha... have yourself a pint good sir!

[Jarpie]

This was an intersting watch, made by the (apparently leftist) german tv-channel:

[NurembergVillan]

I'm actually having to explain this to you.

You're profiling a group of people who look Muslim because of their skin colour (see: race) based on your own personal experiences.

Ergo: Racist.

Iam profiling a group of people who have just arrived to a new country and already causing havoc by breaking chairs and tables, i have personal experience with muslims behaving very badly when not getting halal food, so i asked if maybe the people on the video was upset cause they were not getting halal food ?

As I mentioned just now, any evidence that this video is what you claim it to be? There are no reports that I can find anywhere.

Claiming? if you read my post again you will see that i didnt claim anything, i asked a question.

So, erm, who claimed that part then?

You can be reasonable and then you can make stupid generalisations like '15% of Muslims are radical'

I believe I said 15% of the people who are coming might be fundamentalists/fanatics/supremacists, and given the gallups below I found through google, and if they are right that 19% of the muslims who lives in america think that violence is justified in order to make sharia the law in USA, you don't think those 19% of american-muslims are fundamentalist or radical?

Edit: it might be lower but I'd probably say anywhere from 5% to 10% would be reasonable assumption, 15% might be tad high.

"Pew Research (2014): 47% of Bangladeshi Muslims says suicide bombings and violence are justified to "defend Islam".  1 in 4 believed the same in Tanzania and Egypt.  1 in 5 Muslims in the 'moderate' countries of Turkey and Malaysia."

http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/07/01/concerns-about-islamic-extremism-on-the-rise-in-middle-east/

The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015): 19% of Muslim-Americans say that violence is justified in order to make Sharia the law in the United States (66% disagree).
http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/150612-CSP-Polling-Company-Nationwide-Online-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf

The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015): 25% of Muslim-Americans say that violence against Americans in the United States is justified as part of the "global Jihad (64% disagree).
http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/150612-CSP-Polling-Company-Nationwide-Online-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf

Pew Research (2011): 8% of Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified (81% never).
28% of Egyptian Muslims believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified (38% never).
http://www.people-press.org/2011/08/30/muslim-americans-no-signs-of-growth-in-alienation-or-support-for-extremism/

World Public Opinion: 61% of Egyptians approve of attacks on Americans
32% of Indonesians approve of attacks on Americans
41% of Pakistanis approve of attacks on Americans
38% of Moroccans approve of attacks on Americans
83% of Palestinians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (only 14% oppose)
62% of Jordanians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (21% oppose)
42% of Turks approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (45% oppose)
A minority of Muslims disagreed entirely with terror attacks on Americans:
(Egypt 34%; Indonesia 45%; Pakistan 33%)
About half of those opposed to attacking Americans were sympathetic with al-Qaeda’s attitude toward the U.S.
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/feb09/STARTII_Feb09_rpt.pdf

Looking at those sources, I'd be dubious about their real accuracy. The Pew Research interviewed 14,000 of the estimated 1.6bn Muslims worldwide. That's a pathetic sample size. A company I worked for did a customer survey of 6,000 people and we didn't have anywhere near 1.6bn customers!  The CSP poll covered just 600 of 2.8m Muslims in the US.

[NurembergVillan]

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJQ1a0Cmsk4

Safe in germany but still not very happy, i wonder why, no halal food?

What, exactly, is your point? 

You dont get it do you ?

People fleeing from war, Germany welcomes them in and they behave like this?

Are we supposed to be surprised when people from a war zone get a little tense and occassionally fight eachother (btw!) in a crowded, makeshift camp? Is this supposed to make them in any less need of refuge? 

Yes iam shocked by their behaviour, you dont come to a country who saved your life and behave like this, you just dont.

Any proof that the video is of what you claim? Or that it's even refugees? Or Muslims?

Ofcourse, a friend of a friend filmed it, that's good enough for you ?

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeiefOw5n7aJtYIeG3rD4rQ/videos

Looks like she's been witness to some crazy stuff during her month on YouTube...