TRO Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Historically we've been better. I don't think a team like Aston Villa or any other team, becomes winners by aspiring to be a mid-table team. I can't imagine Everton, Tottenham or even Newcastle fans doing such a thing. but surely, you are aspiring to the wrong objective, its their ability as a small club to defy the odds thats worth aspiring to and acheive what they have, a brand of football to be proud of and a league position that is in relative terms impressive. Its not their League position to aspire to or their Brand of football ( albeit it ain't bad) its the ability to pursue consistent improvement....its their ability to not throw the towel in when the big boys sign another 40 mill player and its their ability to turn up with their restrictions and give the big teams a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxy1 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 I would argue Birmingham as a City is a factor in this. To call it unfashionable is an understatement. London just becomes more and more dominant economically & socially. As a knock on effect even clubs like West Ham & Crystal Palace are in danger of sailing past us in coming years. Manchester manages to to act like UK's real second city, has a swagger and confidence that Birmingham somehow lacks. In fact the whole Midlands is a bit of a malaise. Is it a coincidence Midlands football is in the doldrums? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Historically we've been better. I don't think a team like Aston Villa or any other team, becomes winners by aspiring to be a mid-table team. I can't imagine Everton, Tottenham or even Newcastle fans doing such a thing. but surely, you are aspiring to the wrong objective, its their ability as a small club to defy the odds thats worth aspiring to and acheive what they have, a brand of football to be proud of and a league position that is in relative terms impressive. Its not their League position to aspire to or their Brand of football ( albeit it ain't bad) its the ability to pursue consistent improvement....its their ability to not throw the towel in when the big boys sign another 40 mill player and its their ability to turn up with their restrictions and give the big teams a game. In that case we might as well aspire to Brentford or any other team who relative to what you'd expect are doing well. Maybe we should stop studying and wanting to be other teams and concentrate on making Aston Villa winners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakid007 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 I would argue Birmingham as a City is a factor in this. To call it unfashionable is an understatement. London just becomes more and more dominant economically & socially. As a knock on effect even clubs like West Ham & Crystal Palace are in danger of sailing past us in coming years. Manchester manages to to act like UK's real second city, has a swagger and confidence that Birmingham somehow lacks. In fact the whole Midlands is a bit of a malaise. Is it a coincidence Midlands football is in the doldrums? I don't know the % but a lot of Birmingham support Man U Liverpool & arsenal AVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasoncb Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 It will be interesting to see who Sherwood signs if he is given the chance. Does he think we will be able to attract the same calibre players spurs can, or is he talking about finding the next Gareth Bale. I wouldn't dare give him a budget like MON had but perhaps around 20-25mll and see what he could do with that. The problem with Sherwood he talks so much before he's even proved himself. He did save us from relegation so I feel he deserves a chance to rebuild Villa with or without Lerner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 The trouble with us as a club is we believe our own propaganda. Fundamentally we are a bottom half premiership side that has been mismanaged either on the pitch or in terms of owners ever since we won the European Cup. We bang on about our youth policy and we believe every bright prospect we have is the next Rooney / Milner / Ramsay when all the empirical evidence shows we are good at producing lower league players with the odd exception. That arrogance extends to how we think and would like to be perceived. We think we are a big club and we are in terms of history we are but in the real world we are a laughing stock. The former big club that still thinks its big. No one but no one fears coming to Villa Park and playing us. More often than not we are there for the taking. I have no idea whether Sherwood is a good manager but he is spot on when he says we have a losing mentality. Players that join us are dragged down to our level of mediocrity. We need to believe in ourselves more and build on our strengths. Get rid of the time wasters and salary men and build a side around players who want to create something. Sadly that is not the work of a moment. It is a sad condemnation that 25 years ago we were on a par with Arsenal but look how then have been managed compared to us. They are a top four side playing attractive and inventive football and we are bunch of cloggers who have lived under the yolk of a succession of poor owners and poor managers. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 In the 90s we won two league cups and finished what 6 times in the top 6, might've been more. We were regularly finishing above the likes of Newcastle, Everton and Spurs in those days. I think actually losing the 2000 cup final set us back mentally as a club, certainly against the better teams in the league as it's been pretty barren in the league bar the three seasons under O'Neill. Our record for example v Man. United has gone beyond a joke now, it's ridiculous we can't beat a team we've been in the same league with at home for 20 years now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 You want a winning mentality ? looking at the coaching staff - that Robson geezer had a run 0 wins from 15 matches whilst briefly in charge of Barnet ! - If he started talking to me about a winning mentality I wouldn't be able to keep a straight face - what must the players think ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Been at work all of an hour and already had 2 Arsenal and 1 Liverpool fan(s) asking "What happened, you lot didn't even show up" Can't even argue with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted June 1, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted June 1, 2015 In order to get a winning attitude from players, you need the players to care that they play for Villa. This (should) come naturally for players like Grealish and Agbonlahor who are not just players but fans - which makes locally grown players a real bonus. Outside that, how do you know? Many talented mercenaries would certainly fit into our side but see us as a stepping stone to someone else. They would sooner be on the phone to their agent rather than be cut up at having been defeated (Dunne laughing and joking with the opposition players at full time after a heavy defeat always springs to mind). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didiersix Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I've lived outside of Brum for years now, and it is not true that the rest of the country thinks we are a laughing stock or anything. And even if they did, who cares? The first thing we need to do is stop the rot at home. We need to get back to Villa Park being a horrible place for away teams to come. From teh fans side, try and generate as an intimidating atmosphere as possible (This will be hard to accomplish) and from the players side, stop being a soft touch. What I like about Sherwood is that he seems to be a bit of a nutter. That is what we need - someone seriously committed who will point blank refuse to take any bollocks, refuse to lie down and will tell the players home truths. Sure this will ruffle feathers, but this is what we need. Let's shake the place up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_Villain Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 But to become winners you now need to fork out hundreds of millions, which we don't have. I think Sherwood was being a bit more specific in that the current crop of players have just been mentally shot to bits by the past few years. I wouldn't have described us as "losers" under Martin O'Neill. Some terrible management choices (Heskey when we needed someone like Bent, fielding stupid teams in the Europa League, etc.) saw us fall down in that era but I wouldn't say we were losers. We were still a force at that time and teams were scared to play us. However I agree post-MON. McLeish and Lambert brought in such dour, poisonous approaches that the club and the players seem sapped of all fight. We got it back a bit under Sherwood but we seem to have reverted back. I'm confident however that, given a bit of time and investment, under Sherwood we'll be fighters. However, I just don't see that investment coming... I don't think thats the truth mate... Lerners got it, but he won't spend it on us anymore... He is a billionaire... All of that money from the sale of the Cleveland Browns didn't just disappear into thin air... He is just a selfish word removed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Nope. Completely wrong. In either case FFP has ensured he wouldn't be able to. I think looking at the finances the past few seasons he is anything but selfish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 But to become winners you now need to fork out hundreds of millions, which we don't have. I think Sherwood was being a bit more specific in that the current crop of players have just been mentally shot to bits by the past few years. I wouldn't have described us as "losers" under Martin O'Neill. Some terrible management choices (Heskey when we needed someone like Bent, fielding stupid teams in the Europa League, etc.) saw us fall down in that era but I wouldn't say we were losers. We were still a force at that time and teams were scared to play us. However I agree post-MON. McLeish and Lambert brought in such dour, poisonous approaches that the club and the players seem sapped of all fight. We got it back a bit under Sherwood but we seem to have reverted back. I'm confident however that, given a bit of time and investment, under Sherwood we'll be fighters. However, I just don't see that investment coming... I don't think thats the truth mate... Lerners got it, but he won't spend it on us anymore... He is a billionaire... All of that money from the sale of the Cleveland Browns didn't just disappear into thin air... He is just a selfish word removed... So he should just keep chucking money at it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Lerner's biggest problem is his naivety - he's hardly selfish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_Villain Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 But to become winners you now need to fork out hundreds of millions, which we don't have. I think Sherwood was being a bit more specific in that the current crop of players have just been mentally shot to bits by the past few years. I wouldn't have described us as "losers" under Martin O'Neill. Some terrible management choices (Heskey when we needed someone like Bent, fielding stupid teams in the Europa League, etc.) saw us fall down in that era but I wouldn't say we were losers. We were still a force at that time and teams were scared to play us. However I agree post-MON. McLeish and Lambert brought in such dour, poisonous approaches that the club and the players seem sapped of all fight. We got it back a bit under Sherwood but we seem to have reverted back. I'm confident however that, given a bit of time and investment, under Sherwood we'll be fighters. However, I just don't see that investment coming... I don't think thats the truth mate... Lerners got it, but he won't spend it on us anymore... He is a billionaire... All of that money from the sale of the Cleveland Browns didn't just disappear into thin air... He is just a selfish word removed... So he should just keep chucking money at it? Yes actually, he should have.... He is the chairman and the owner... It was his job to lead by example... Not shit his pants and pull the plug when things got a little bit ropey... He should have kept chucking money at it or handed over the reigns to someone else who would before things got as negative as they did... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ermie123 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I've lived outside of Brum for years now, and it is not true that the rest of the country thinks we are a laughing stock or anything. And even if they did, who cares? The first thing we need to do is stop the rot at home. We need to get back to Villa Park being a horrible place for away teams to come. From teh fans side, try and generate as an intimidating atmosphere as possible (This will be hard to accomplish) and from the players side, stop being a soft touch. What I like about Sherwood is that he seems to be a bit of a nutter. That is what we need - someone seriously committed who will point blank refuse to take any bollocks, refuse to lie down and will tell the players home truths. Sure this will ruffle feathers, but this is what we need. Let's shake the place up. We have him its Tim Sherwood! I really like him he takes defeats personally just like me!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 But to become winners you now need to fork out hundreds of millions, which we don't have. I think Sherwood was being a bit more specific in that the current crop of players have just been mentally shot to bits by the past few years. I wouldn't have described us as "losers" under Martin O'Neill. Some terrible management choices (Heskey when we needed someone like Bent, fielding stupid teams in the Europa League, etc.) saw us fall down in that era but I wouldn't say we were losers. We were still a force at that time and teams were scared to play us. However I agree post-MON. McLeish and Lambert brought in such dour, poisonous approaches that the club and the players seem sapped of all fight. We got it back a bit under Sherwood but we seem to have reverted back. I'm confident however that, given a bit of time and investment, under Sherwood we'll be fighters. However, I just don't see that investment coming... I don't think thats the truth mate... Lerners got it, but he won't spend it on us anymore... He is a billionaire... All of that money from the sale of the Cleveland Browns didn't just disappear into thin air... He is just a selfish word removed... So he should just keep chucking money at it? Yes actually, he should have.... He is the chairman and the owner... It was his job to lead by example... Not shit his pants and pull the plug when things got a little bit ropey... He should have kept chucking money at it or handed over the reigns to someone else who would before things got as negative as they did... At a certain point, it becomes impossible to respond sensibly to anyone who just pretends that FFP doesn't exist. It does. You can't simply throw money at things any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 But to become winners you now need to fork out hundreds of millions, which we don't have. I think Sherwood was being a bit more specific in that the current crop of players have just been mentally shot to bits by the past few years. I wouldn't have described us as "losers" under Martin O'Neill. Some terrible management choices (Heskey when we needed someone like Bent, fielding stupid teams in the Europa League, etc.) saw us fall down in that era but I wouldn't say we were losers. We were still a force at that time and teams were scared to play us. However I agree post-MON. McLeish and Lambert brought in such dour, poisonous approaches that the club and the players seem sapped of all fight. We got it back a bit under Sherwood but we seem to have reverted back. I'm confident however that, given a bit of time and investment, under Sherwood we'll be fighters. However, I just don't see that investment coming... I don't think thats the truth mate... Lerners got it, but he won't spend it on us anymore... He is a billionaire... All of that money from the sale of the Cleveland Browns didn't just disappear into thin air... He is just a selfish word removed... So he should just keep chucking money at it? Yes actually, he should have.... He is the chairman and the owner... It was his job to lead by example... Not shit his pants and pull the plug when things got a little bit ropey... He should have kept chucking money at it or handed over the reigns to someone else who would before things got as negative as they did... I hope you are not a gambler. As for finding someone else, how many billionaires do you think there are that want to spunk their money into Aston Villa Football Club? They aren't lining up around the block. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 In the main I think what stems from our poor performance is our poor performance in the transfer market. we have in the main a soft underbelly and unless you have world class exceptions a good big un..... will beat a good little un. We have witnessed teams like Southampton,Stoke crystal palace, who tower over us..... we clearly don't cherish the physical challenge and don't possess the guile to negate it, so we are left in no mans land. as a club we have lost our identity.... We are not cloggers, we are not bullys boys, we are not technicians......so what the bloody hell are we?....quite frankly I haven't a clue what we are. until a manager has a vision of what he wants and sticks to it.....I can't see any change coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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