sharkyvilla Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 8 hours ago, sidcow said: It's actually quite weird to come out and totally admit the disaster was on you 100% and you own it, then go on and blame Brexit and the Press...... So its not actually your fault at all. They just can't see their vision is flawed. Local news interviewed some working class bloke in a cafe in West Brom who had voted Labour all his life and voted Tory. He said he wanted Brexit but that it was much more than that and he felt Corbyn was trying to take the country backwards 20 years. Their very core target audience just didn't want, in fact positively rejected their ideals. People are pissed off with trains but don't want to see hundreds of billions pissed away buying them back, or care about municipal banks. And most people I spoke to knew perfectly well there just wasn't the money to achieve most of the promises and realised the country would end up bankrupt again needing rinse and repeat austerity to sort it out Also this thing about taxing the rich. It's just not possible. France tried that a few years ago and the rich all just buggered off so you end up collecting LESS tax. This is a Global economy now with much freedom of movement. Even a mid ranking banker can move to Frankfurt or New York if they feel hounded. It was all just so wrong and if they continue to blame Brexit and the evil press they will be out in the cold for many more years. Indeed, I've heard Corbyn and McDonnell saying that in isolation their policies and manifestos were popular but you can't just take each one in isolation. Obviously bigger investment in the NHS is a necessity, as well as education, but then when you get down to the 10th massive expenditure they want to introduce like free broadband for everyone it starts to get a bit ridiculous. I've never even heard anyone say they want or expect free broadband, not to mention broadband will probably be obsolete by 2030. It just seemed like they unnecessarily made themselves look less credible by being far too radical, especially when none of us know how the economy will perform after Brexit (not that Labour even had a Brexit policy anyway). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 At a slight tangent, what I find impressive is how the view of the world in UK eyes has shifted. This crazy programme of spending and nationalisation and state interference wasn’t going to put us in line with Vietnam and Cuba, it was going to make us more like Germany or France, or Generic Scandi country. From recent votes, that’s clearly the last thing we want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted December 17, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted December 17, 2019 21 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: At a slight tangent, what I find impressive is how the view of the world in UK eyes has shifted. This crazy programme of spending and nationalisation and state interference wasn’t going to put us in line with Vietnam and Cuba, it was going to make us more like Germany or France, or Generic Scandi country. From recent votes, that’s clearly the last thing we want. Yeah but Germany and France are the enemy, and therefore basically Communist. If you want us to be like that, well, bloody pinkos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 10 hours ago, sidcow said: realised the country would end up bankrupt again Realised? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatAboutTheFinish Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 23 minutes ago, Chindie said: Yeah but Germany and France are the enemy, and therefore basically Communist. If you want us to be like that, well, bloody pinkos. I don't know. Of course you have to pay 25 quid to see a doctor in France and Germany. So there could be legs in some of their methods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 To me the policies are 'popular' in the same way that those radio adverts "You can drive a new mercedes for £179 a month are popular" - I dismiss them because I know (or thing I know) - that there is a whacking £7k balloon payment at the end - or I paying £179 a month for 12 years - I don't bother to actually check fine print - But in my own mind I am convinced the sting is in there - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 10 hours ago, tonyh29 said: Tbf you could have said the same about the Tory one .. and Lib Dem’s for that matter ... Much as I dislike Boris and all he stands for - I would say he is a formidable politician, I don't see a Boris equivalent in the labour ranks. What no one has has said is the difference in the 2017 election to the 2019 election - Was Boris over Teresa May - the latter who went to the country with fox hunting in the manifesto FFS !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 We’re all keeping in mind here that the financially astute tories have added one thousand billion to the national debt over the last decade, yeah? That’s not even my silly made up number. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 44 minutes ago, WhatAboutTheFinish said: I don't know. Of course you have to pay 25 quid to see a doctor in France and Germany. So there could be legs in some of their methods No you don't, it's covered by your insurance Your insurance here is 80% same as the NHS, you just pay a portion of your wages and then the service is kind of the same (in the UK you just pay it as a tax rather than insurance) The big difference here is obviously its all private doctors so it's spread out everywhere, little praxis spread across bonn, all of the ones I've seen so far are specialists, no GP, and they're all in converted houses / flats, there's some weird stuff not covered by insurance (certain types of baby scan for example) but I've been around 7 or 8 times now and not cost me any extra Not experienced hospitals yet I'm of the opinion that it works that's for sure (same as the UK though if you see a Dr 30 mins after your appointment time then consider it a success) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 31 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: We’re all keeping in mind here that the financially astute tories have added one thousand billion to the national debt over the last decade, yeah? That’s not even my silly made up number. But surely unless they eliminated the defecit immediately the debt was always going to go up. That would have been extremely difficult when it was £100bn in 2010. (I'm not denying that they didn't miss their own targets by the way) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 25 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said: But surely unless they eliminated the defecit immediately the debt was always going to go up. That would have been extremely difficult when it was £100bn in 2010. (I'm not denying that they didn't miss their own targets by the way) There’s ‘going up’ and there’s doubling debt at the same time as the austerity con. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 3 hours ago, chrisp65 said: At a slight tangent, what I find impressive is how the view of the world in UK eyes has shifted. This crazy programme of spending and nationalisation and state interference wasn’t going to put us in line with Vietnam and Cuba, it was going to make us more like Germany or France, or Generic Scandi country. From recent votes, that’s clearly the last thing we want. Ah, so you mean like Norway, Germany, France, Sweden and Denmark where there's no free broadband, private train companies bid for different parts of the tracks like here and where there's mostly been right-centre parties in charge for quite a while? I think Labour and many of its supporters need to go on a study trip to reality. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 32 minutes ago, magnkarl said: Ah, so you mean like Norway, Germany, France, Sweden and Denmark where there's no free broadband, private train companies bid for different parts of the tracks like here and where there's mostly been right-centre parties in charge for quite a while? I think Labour and many of its supporters need to go on a study trip to reality. Aren’t German train operators run like private companies with 100% of the shares owned by the government? Pretty sure the French government owns a majority share in the national railway company too? Correct me if I’m wrong. No idea about the other countries. This suggests nationalised railway isn’t that abhorrent to the centre-right in at least some of those countries so I’m not sure why it’s so controversial to suggest over here. Pretty sure the Dutch government at least owns shares in the railway companies too as I remember everyone complaining that when French and Dutch companies won contracts over here we were effectively subsidising their national railway with the profits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Spoke to friend who is involved in the labour party - who doesn't even think the leadership contest will be close - Reckons RLB will easily be elected, as she has more support than Corbyn had when he won. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, magnkarl said: Ah, so you mean like Norway, Germany, France, Sweden and Denmark where there's no free broadband, private train companies bid for different parts of the tracks like here and where there's mostly been right-centre parties in charge for quite a while? I think Labour and many of its supporters need to go on a study trip to reality. Well we consistently fall behind all of them on quality of life/happiness indexes so they’re doing something right (or left so to speak) that we aren’t. Edited December 17, 2019 by Wainy316 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 RLB would be a disgraceful choice. Can't see myself voting for Labour again for a very long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Yeah she's awful tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 I can see it almost certainly being an RLB/Rayner double act. Of all the candidates I like Lisa Nandy the most, but unless she can get somebody like Jess Phillips on board as her number two, I don't think she stands much chance. Wrong-Daily has the starting advantage of all the entryist Momentum nutters, which is a very strong point to kick off from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted December 17, 2019 Moderator Share Posted December 17, 2019 11 minutes ago, Risso said: Of all the candidates I like Lisa Nandy the most, That's only because she's a fellow ecky-thumper like you, you know, talks with a hint of Black Pudding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 We come from Wigan and we live in mud huts! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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