The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[chrisp65]

I wonder if we need a general political thread? I guess if we do, it will happen.

Anyway, some interesting variations from a few new MP’s today whilst swearing the oath of allegiance. One stating her right and Scotland’s right to claim independence. One swearing allegiance to the Queen and continuing the oath to state her over riding allegiance to the people of South Belfast. Another adding the words ‘for the purposes of the job’ in front of the pledge to the queen.

All three accepted in to the club.

 

[blandy]

11 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

again, they got the share of the vote they got, so the more I knock the policies, the less awful the leadership were

It's not really a zero sum thing, though is it? I mean aside from those aspects, there are also all the external factors which affect vote. There's also the appeal or otherwise of the other parties. Labour could have a good leader and good policies, but if the tories have better (in the voters eyes) leader and policies, then they win. There's also tactical voting - people lending Labour their vote in many constituencies. Sure some will have done the opposite, but mostly tactical voting went from Greens and Lib Dems to Labour.

Listening to the people who were out canvassing, it seems like both the leader and the policies were major factors, often both. Personally Labour's policies are about 50% good, but in some key areas they (IMO) really struggled to convince people, to put it politely. Further, the leader has a massive influence on manifesto content.

So I respect your view, but don't see the same zero sum sliding scale where the if leader is bad, policies are good (and vice versa).

[edit] I've just seen your later post where you talk about these other factors, so this reply is partly out of date[/edit]

Edited December 19, 2019 by blandy
saw later post

[Mic09]

Quote

 

Labour staff members have been warned that a reduction in funding after the party's election defeat could have an "immediate impact" on their jobs.

An email to staff from Labour's HR director said the party will have to consider its structure because of a reduction in Short money funding.

This is given to opposition parties based on seat and vote numbers.

But some MPs have criticised the move and its impact on lower-paid staff while the "top" remain in place.

Shadow Foreign Secretary Emily Thornberry said some of Mr Corbyn's senior advisers had been "poisonous" and should leave immediately, adding "people know who I'm talking about".

"It's a tragedy there is a threat to junior people... but the senior people who made the strategic decisions don't seem to be the ones heading for the exit,"

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50842915?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics&link_location=live-reporting-story

Bit of austerity within the party. Never leave those less fortunate behind they said...

[StefanAVFC]

 

[HanoiVillan]

6 hours ago, Genie said:

I really hope Boris tells Sturgeon to do one with her independence referendum request. After the last 3 years of churn and uncertainty the last thing we need is Scotland throwing a fresh spanner into the works, border controls, currency, freedom of movement, businesses etc. 

Absolutely not the right time for the UK.

Copying this one from the Tory party thread, as my point really relates to it vis-a-vis Labour.

It seems to me that the feeling Genie expresses here, is a big big problem for Labour, has been since 2015, and will be whichever wing of the party the next leader is from, and indeed will be as long as the SNP are in hegemonic control of Scottish politics.

One underdiscussed group of voters are English voters who are persuaded that 'a vote for Labour is a vote for a second Scottish indpendence referendum' which they don't want, and which is essentially self-reinforcing as Labour are unlikely to form a stable governing coalition without either Scottish seats or the SNP. It's kind of impossible to see how Labour can break free of this dynamic until Scotland becomes independent, and of course the Tories know this, which is a] why they keep talking about Labour-SNP alliances during election campaigns, and b] a strong reason not to offer a second independence referendum at all.

[Brumstopdogs]

 

 

[peterms]

1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said:

Copying this one from the Tory party thread, as my point really relates to it vis-a-vis Labour.

It seems to me that the feeling Genie expresses here, is a big big problem for Labour, has been since 2015, and will be whichever wing of the party the next leader is from, and indeed will be as long as the SNP are in hegemonic control of Scottish politics.

One underdiscussed group of voters are English voters who are persuaded that 'a vote for Labour is a vote for a second Scottish indpendence referendum' which they don't want, and which is essentially self-reinforcing as Labour are unlikely to form a stable governing coalition without either Scottish seats or the SNP. It's kind of impossible to see how Labour can break free of this dynamic until Scotland becomes independent, and of course the Tories know this, which is a] why they keep talking about Labour-SNP alliances during election campaigns, and b] a strong reason not to offer a second independence referendum at all.

Parts of Scottish Labour are apparently becoming more open to independence.

I understand the Fabians have done a paper on priorities, which identifies northern England but not Scotland as a priority area for action.

Hard to see where Scottish Labour go now to recover support and find a way forward that can make sense, if they continue to oppose a further referendum.

[chrisp65]

Special shout out today for Stephen Kinnock who was on the radio earlier criticising London’s coffee culture socialists.

Clearly he’s forgotten when he claimed for a milk frother on his parliamentary expenses.

[peterms]

9 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Special shout out today for Stephen Kinnock who was on the radio earlier criticising London’s coffee culture socialists.

Clearly he’s forgotten when he claimed for a milk frother on his parliamentary expenses.

But was the milk frother an implement, or a domestic servant?

[chrisp65]

2 minutes ago, peterms said:

But was the milk frother an implement, or a domestic servant?

Aye it was probably a frother for the frother.

He always looks so pleased with himself, it could have been a frother for his fluffer. 

[Davkaus]

I feel attacked for having 2 milk frothers.

[chrisp65]

4 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

I feel attacked for having 2 milk frothers.

Have you criticised socialist coffee culture?

If not, don’t worry, enjoy your frothers.

If yes, you’re hypocritical scum.

 

[Davkaus]

I don't know what socialist coffee culture is, so...Maybe.

[chrisp65]

11 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

I don't know what socialist coffee culture is, so...Maybe.

Ok, there’s another level of self assessment. Have you ever done both of theses things, either one is ok, both is the clincher:

1.0 declared that independence is a ridiculous pipe dream as Wales is far too small to be indy and is and always will be reliant economically and culturally on others

2.0 married the prime minister of Denmark, population 5 million

 

if its both, hypocritical scum

 

[peterms]

This is the problem with political critiques these days.  Not enough substance, too much froth.

[HanoiVillan]

1 hour ago, Davkaus said:

I don't know what socialist coffee culture is, so...Maybe.

Don't worry, neither did anybody in the world until Stephen Kinnock made it up this morning.

[tomsky_11]

On 18/12/2019 at 20:34, Jon said:

 I like King Clive, but I doubt he's going to stand.

 

[Dr_Pangloss]

Corbyn sticking around as leader is getting beyond embarrassing. Just go.

[Brumstopdogs]

Villa fan Eddie Hughes speaking in the HOC

 

 

[snowychap]

4 hours ago, Brumstopdogs said:

Villa fan Eddie Hughes speaking in the HOC

 

 

They probably wondered what the hell he was dribbling on about (who cares that he's a Villa fan?).

Did the Tory party ever suspend Chris Davies?