LondonLax Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 13 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: Out of the hundreds of post-election #takes I've read, that is definitely one of the better ones. The obvious counter argument was that maybe people preferred Labour’s 2015 policies but didn’t feel inspired by Ed Miliband at the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 1 minute ago, LondonLax said: The obvious counter argument was that maybe people preferred Labour’s 2015 policies but didn’t feel inspired by Ed Miliband at the time? That is a reasonable counter re 2015, but then it doesn't explain 2017 (unless we're saying that Corbyn was an absolutely incredible candidate in 2017). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) 57 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: That is a reasonable counter re 2015, but then it doesn't explain 2017 (unless we're saying that Corbyn was an absolutely incredible candidate in 2017). Labour also lost in 2017 and they were up against a PM with an even less inspiring personality than Ed Miliband and a party with right wing policies. People voted for the right wing policies despite the personality presenting them. Edited December 18, 2019 by LondonLax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post HanoiVillan Posted December 18, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 18, 2019 31 minutes ago, LondonLax said: Labour also lost in 2017 and they were up against a PM with an even less inspiring personality than Ed Miliband and a party with right wing policies. People voted for the right wing policies despite the personality presenting them. But May also advanced Cameron's share of the vote as well, so that doesn't work. Essentially what we're getting to is that there's another factor in the results, apart from 'how much did people like the leaders' and 'how much did people like the policies', and in fact there are two, which are 'how much people didn't like the Lib Dems' and 'what people thought about Brexit'. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said: But May also advanced Cameron's share of the vote as well, so that doesn't work. Essentially what we're getting to is that there's another factor in the results, apart from 'how much did people like the leaders' and 'how much did people like the policies', and in fact there are two, which are 'how much people didn't like the Lib Dems' and 'what people thought about Brexit'. Happy enough with that. I’m just wary of the argument that says Labour just need to change leaders but not policy. They need a big rethink to recapture voters lost to the Tory party. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) Shaping up at the moment to have all the tactics and moves worked out for winning the 2019 GE in 2024. Don’t they just need a safe pair of hands leader for 12 / 18 months so they can work themselves out at their leisure? Without too much knowledge of either of them, Jess Philips and Kier Starmer are the two that interest me. Edited December 18, 2019 by chrisp65 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 45 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Jess Philips Christ. Lost my vote and interest immediately. She's also got no chance, thankfully. Horrendous character. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jon said: Christ. Lost my vote and interest immediately. She's also got no chance, thankfully. Horrendous character. Because.... ? Go on, what don’t you like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 RLB is potentially going to win it. But I'm not sure she's up to it. Doesn't inspire me TBH. Jez did. I like King Clive, but I doubt he's going to stand. Angela Rayner I also rate, but she's probably going for deputy. The Wild Thornberry might be a good shout. **** it. I'm a paid up member of the hemp smelling bivouac party anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Because.... ? Go on, what don’t you like? Briefly. Constant knifing of Jez. Far too far to the centre. I'm looking for a socialist labour party, and I don't believe she is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 3 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: unless we're saying that Corbyn was an absolutely incredible candidate in 2017 He still lost to the "Strong and Stable dancing queen", let's not forget. He could have got a landslide same as Boris at the time if he was a half competent politician, I think he found his true level in politics last week. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chrisp65 Posted December 18, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 18, 2019 Just now, Jon said: Briefly. Constant knifing of Jez. Far too far to the centre. I'm looking for a socialist labour party, and I don't believe she is. Ok, that’s fair. So, do you think a Jeremy in a dress with the very similar manifesto could win next time? To put my cards on the table here, if the election was run again next Thursday, in hindsight I wouldn’t vote Labour. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 1 hour ago, LondonLax said: They need a big rethink to recapture voters lost to the Tory party. My own opinion, but I don't think I want Labour to start pandering to small town bigots, if they hold the balance of power then I'd rather wait for them to be disillusioned by the tories than to start trying to out racist the racists. There is no shame in winning the vote in under 45s - that is the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 4 minutes ago, Jon said: Briefly. Constant knifing of Jez. Far too far to the centre. I'm looking for a socialist labour party, and I don't believe she is. Did you know that there's already a party out there that suits your needs: https://www.socialistparty.org.uk/ The message to the socialists in the labour party should be 'good riddance'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 My problem right now, is I was persuaded to ‘vote tactically’. With all those borrowed votes Labour lost heavily. But perversely, they are now counting my vote as an endorsement of them, and not the borrowed tactical vote they asked for. Are they lying to me, themselves, or both of us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Jon said: Christ. Lost my vote and interest immediately. She's also got no chance, thankfully. Horrendous character. Aggressive fishwife. The type you’d slowly edge away from at the bus-stop, as she stood cursing at no-one in particular. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 59 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: So, do you think a Jeremy in a dress with the very similar manifesto could win next time? He'd have to shave that beard as well, or they'd know it's him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 1 minute ago, peterms said: He'd have to shave that beard as well, or they'd know it's him. I find it tricky, a lot of the message appeals to me, not much of it spooks me. But I’m old enough to have worked out my world view isn’t going to win many UK elections. So I can see a milder version might win, which would be good winning over perfect as opposed to perfect losing out to greedy thieves and liars. But then again, Labour have had a more controlling hand where I live for 22 years and done nothing. So I’ve probably bucked the trend and got a smudge more radical as I’ve got older. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: I find it tricky, a lot of the message appeals to me, not much of it spooks me. But I’m old enough to have worked out my world view isn’t going to win many UK elections. So I can see a milder version might win, which would be good winning over perfect as opposed to perfect losing out to greedy thieves and liars. But then again, Labour have had a more controlling hand where I live for 22 years and done nothing. So I’ve probably bucked the trend and got a smudge more radical as I’ve got older. The milder version was leaching votes and members since 1997. The more radical approach increased the vote, and recruitment. The recent election was so much about Brexit that it's hard to compare with more normal elections, but I think it would be a very big mistake for them to abandon the approach which managed to reverse the decline. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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