The Tim Sherwood Thread

[VillaCas]

I think in the close season he bought players with a formation in mind

I think he has now quickly abandoned his initial plan and is now casting around for both a more feasible formation and also the correct mix of players to play in it - a tall order

His comments show me that at the moment he is nowhere near coming to any conclusions on this

I also imagine that Fox must be distrubed to go from the confident man with a clear plan "we will never struggle again" to a failing, unsure "I don't know my best formation or my best XI" (I paraphrase Sherwood here)

one point from the last 21, an admission that he is no nearer to a best XI and laying the blame on the players fitness mean its time to go

The chances of him turning this round are slight, the chances of us being to far adrift for recovery are immense

I suspect that he goes after Swansea but the international break would give us a head start in trying yet again to turn this round

[Marka Ragnos]

I've been quick to defend Sherwood and really hoped he would do well. But he doesn't seem to know what he is doing does is? Or is our squad just still to poor for any manager to succeed? 

I mean, he has admitted as much. The honesty is refreshing, but it's kind of like an aeroplane pilot coming out of the cockpit and telling all the passengers, "Hey guys, I can't actually fly this crazy thing, but I am taking full responsibility, since I'm the pilot."

I'm like, "Gee, thanks, mate."

[TRO]

@TRO  - TBH - I thought Jonny was completely wrong about that.  In an uncanny parallel that has ruined my last 2 saturdays, Lancaster is also out of his depth, has no idea about his best formation or tactics and the muddled thinking has come through in results.  England could and should have beaten Wales, Villa could and should have beaten Stoke.  They should both go.

                 Fine, its opinions.

[TRO]

I think in the close season he bought players with a formation in mind

I think he has now quickly abandoned his initial plan and is now casting around for both a more feasible formation and also the correct mix of players to play in it - a tall order

His comments show me that at the moment he is nowhere near coming to any conclusions on this

I also imagine that Fox must be distrubed to go from the confident man with a clear plan "we will never struggle again" to a failing, unsure "I don't know my best formation or my best XI" (I paraphrase Sherwood here)

one point from the last 21, an admission that he is no nearer to a best XI and laying the blame on the players fitness mean its time to go

The chances of him turning this round are slight, the chances of us being to far adrift for recovery are immense

I suspect that he goes after Swansea but the international break would give us a head start in trying yet again to turn this round

                    I think that is a fair opinion.....but like I said in some of my earlier posts.....Losing can change all of our plans, failure can challenge long standing tried and tested processes and procedures/beliefs.....Sometimes you have to keep your nerve.....easier said than done, I know.

                    I have tried to defend him on here, mainly in the opinion 8 games is not enough.....but equally, I understand the counter claims and should we continue on a losing run undoubtedly my resolve would naturally weaken.

[BOF]

Thirdly, I think he does need more time, but like all of us not having the benefit of seeing in to the future, i might regret that.

This was my view right up until today's quotes.  For me they're a complete game changer, and his position based on his admitted approach is now untenable.  Those quotes are tantamount to telling your employer that you don't really completely know what you're doing.  It's totally insane and I don't see it as refreshingly honest at all.  I see it as quite a serious lack of judgement.

[VillaCas]

If anyone listened to the Jonny Wilkinson interview after the England v Australia game .....it MIGHT change a few views, depending how you interpret it.

He said " you might all laugh at me now, but this England team are not ready yet but they will be amazing.....I know we lost all the scrums and that is/and has been our forte, but in 2 years time this will be some team..... we have some amazing players.

......Very brave after we was annihalated  at what we do best.... scrum.

I cannot preach for Tim Sherwood right now, but I think it is time to reflect in a balanced way.......and at the risk like Jonny Wilkinson of feeling foolish, he needs more time to fix it.

He needs to build from the back as all good teams do.....I don't think he has.....I think he has put too much emphasis on attack...... we can't do that until we learn how to defend.

 

I'm not sure I fully understand what you're on about here - it seems that, on the one hand you are saying that Sherwood needs to be given more time to "fix it" and then we will have an "amazing team", and on the other hand saying that all good teams need to be solid at the back and that Sherwood is not working towards this nor does he really understand that it is a priority. These two statements are at complete odds with one another

Without being overdramatic, for the first time in five seasons we are

at the point of no return - to give Sherwood any more time is complete madness. 

I hope that we could get someone better but I would prefer Alladyce, Moyes, Rodgers or Dyche in immediately

              

                       Thirdly, I think he does need more time, but like all of us not having the benefit of seeing in to the future, i might regret that.

                        Finally, Nothing of those managers you mentioned would convince me, that they could turn this around.....just my opinion.

TRO can I ask you what you beleive the chances of him turning this round versus the chances of not doing so are?   For me it is 95% to 5% against and so not a gamble that I would personally take.  Not points scoring but a genuine attempt to understand where the Sherwood supporters are coming from

Secondly, like you I have no faith at all that Alladyce, Moyes, Rodgers or Dyche could turn this around (and I say in my post that maybe there are better managers available) but, again personally, I would back any of them to use their experience to do a better job than Sherwood.  If we had an imaginary mini-league where Alladyce, Moyes, Rodgers, Dyche and Sherwood were all given the same set of players I'm of the opinion that Sherwood would end up bottom of the league - just my opinion

Whatever happens it could well not be enough as I beleive the problems at VP run much deeper than the manager

 

[El Zen]

So he's basically saying he's making it up as he goes along. He's openly admitting he doesn't actually know how he wants us to play. He's actually telling us he has no f***ing idea what he's doing? Well, he's just confirmed my two biggest fears then: a) he indeed doesn't know what he's doing and b ) he's really, really dim. I was willing to be patient, as a matter of principle if nothing else, but he's completely lost me there. GTFO! 

[Marka Ragnos]

Thirdly, I think he does need more time, but like all of us not having the benefit of seeing in to the future, i might regret that.

This was my view right up until today's quotes.  For me they're a complete game changer, and his position based on his admitted approach is now untenable.  Those quotes are tantamount to telling your employer that you don't really completely know what you're doing.  It's totally insane and I don't see it as refreshingly honest at all.  I see it as a quite a serious lack of judgement.

That was an overstatement! It's worrying. But I'm taking FULL RESPONSIBILITY for that overstatement. Because I'm a poster, see?

[VillaCas]

                    I think that is a fair opinion.....but like I said in some of my earlier posts.....Losing can change all of our plans, failure can challenge long standing tried and tested processes and procedures/beliefs.....Sometimes you have to keep your nerve.....easier said than done, I know.

                    I have tried to defend him on here, mainly in the opinion 8 games is not enough.....but equally, I understand the counter claims and should we continue on a losing run undoubtedly my resolve would naturally weaken.

I know you are refering to fans and the board holding their nerve, but Sherwood has not done so either! I think it was a flawed plan to begin with but as soon as the first pothole appeared in the road he abandoned his plan and has yet to develop a new one.

[GeordieVillan]

The funny thing is - there's very little chance of him being sacked before the next 2 games are played - so if he can somehow conjure up a couple of results, everything might turn for him again.

As a club - we are all about momentum - we go on good runs where we put a string of results together, and then we go on bad runs where we look like we've never even seen a football before. Its been like this since Gregory, although sadly the bad runs last much longer these days.

He's currently staring down the barrel of a gun, but its not impossible that he could turn it around.

I agree with that... but what happens if he beats Chelsea, then uses the same formation/personnel against Swansea and loses?

Those quotes seriously worry me.  If it wasn't for those, I'd be with yourself and TRO (for example) in a slightly more positive frame of mind.  Those quotes though.  Read them again.  Oh my

True - but I actually understand where he's coming from in his quotes. As squad, we have loads of options, but nothing which jumps out immediately as our starting 11. We don't have an all round striker, we don't have a goal scoring central midfielder (although perhaps Veretout might become this), Guzan is still a concern to many, we lack genuine wingers with Traore injured who can provide service to Gestede (although we do have players who can cross the ball). Its not obvious what our best team is, although obviously this is what Sherwood is being paid to determine.

I keep banging on about it, but had it not been for last half an hour at Leicester, I think we would be playing 4-2-3-1 with Grealish and Gil both as part of the 3, and then the other spot on the striker position up for grabs, certainly before Traore returns.

I also think that we shouldn't underestimate just how important Traore might be for us when he comes back. He's the kind of play who will need 2 players marking him (full back and winger), and that will leave space for others in midfield. I don't believe that Grealish or Gil require this (2 players marking them) because they aren't as explosive, but with Traore in the team, it will free up more space for them.

If there is one thing that I will stick up for Sherwood on - its Grealish. I don't think he's been pulling up trees so far this season. His swagger this season appears to look more lazy, and I thought he was very poor second half against Stoke. Conversely, I agree with the vast majority on Gil - he's been great every time he's been involved - he currently should be one of the first 2 names on the team sheet, the other being Richards.

I am incredibly disappointed with how things are going, as I expected a few more points, not alot more, but a few more, and a much more expansive style - and I'm confused as to whats going on. But lets see what happens in the next 2 games. As it is, we havn't been embarrassed by any team we have played, we've lost by single goals, and in most games the opposition have been penned back for large periods while we have tried to get back in the game - that is something at least.

Edited October 5, 2015 by GeordieVillan

[ozvilla28]

Ask yourself a we showing improvement game by game I say no same mistakes week by week chopping and changing formations and tactics no organisation ,no leadership on field  and a defence that can't defend against a pubside.Tim goes for me.

[VillaCas]

 

I am incredibly disappointed with how things are going, as I expected a few more points, not alot more, but a few more, and a much more expansive style - and I'm confused as to whats going on. But lets see what happens in the next 2 games. As it is, we havn't been embarrassed by any team we have played, we've lost by single goals, and in most games the opposition have been penned back for large periods while we have tried to get back in the game - that is something at least.

I too wasn't expecting the world but as a minimum I would have liked to see us on 10 points (realistically 12 points) given the relatively soft start we had.

What does he need to do in the next two games to save his job?

[dont_do_it_doug.]

In case he's reading this thread in search of ideas (I wouldnt put it past him at this point).

The only time we've played half decent this year is the first 60 odd minutes against Leicester. So I'd go with that as a starting point. Main difference would be to tell my two in the middle to sit and protect the bag four not be all over the pitch as Westwood was that day leaving Sanchez to get regularly roasted by whoever happened to be streaming through the middle.

It seems that is the only formation that can get Jack and Gil on the same pitch along with some pace (Adama, Ayew, Sinclair etc Gabby at a real push)

 

Disagree - I don't want a defensive 6.  One defensive midfielder is (or should be!) enough.  You don't need 2 players in that role.

Fair enough its all opinions but I think if you are going to have four players who are not going to add a lot to the team in terms of pressing and winning it back then you do need to have that midfield protection for your defense.

Quite a large portion of the Prem play that way most of the time which is obviously no argument that it is the best way but given our personnel I think it is necessary.

 

Besides that, a 4-2-3-1 formation is not exactly inherently defensive in nature. It is absolutely perfect given our personnel, IMO, and the few times we have turned up this season we have done so with that particular formation, or a close variant.

I would be willing to accept the results to a degree had there been an obvious philosophy formulating, *something* to say "work in progress". Instead we just look a bloody shambles and even when he does stumble across something that works he conspires to **** it all up once the going gets tough.

He is basically out-managed every week. Twice by managers who have since been sacked (though Sunderland were somewhat fortunate).

[Danwichmann]

I keep banging on about it, but had it not been for last half an hour at Leicester, I think we would be playing 4-2-3-1 with Grealish and Gil both as part of the 3, and then the other spot on the striker position up for grabs, certainly before Traore returns.

 

That's a fine, but if then why has Sherwood changed it if that could still work? He says he's going to keep changing until he finds something that works, but we won't know what works until he gives a system a longer run. We could get a lucky win with a system that is poor long term, and lose with a system that would suit us perfectly. What he seems to be saying is that he'll change every time we fail to get a result and we're hardly going to get a consistent, settled and fluid plan with that approach. 

[chrisvilla4]

I'm actually glad that it's the international break. I Need some time out. I think Sherwood needs some time out from the league too. Ease the pressure and get on the training pitch. 

 

[Guest av1]

I reckon his replacement is being lined up as we speak, whether or not that happens before or after the Chelsea game, or later is probably down to how long the negotiations take with whoever Fox has sounded out.

Whether or not a sacking is imminent is anyone's guess, and we can only speculate as to how much backing Tim still has at the club. What should be a given however, is that any competent board should, given the run of form, be looking at alternative's and be formulating a plan B.

I know Tom Fox is getting a bit of stick atm, but I believe he is more than competent for his role, and also believe that if a decision has not already been made, it won't be to far away unless results quickly start improving.

[Isa]

Ask yourself a we showing improvement game by game I say no same mistakes week by week chopping and changing formations and tactics no organisation ,no leadership on field  and a defence that can't defend against a pubside.Tim goes for me.

 

Up to (and including) the Leicester game, I'd say there was a valid case to make when calling for some patience in anticipation of it eventually coming together. In spite of the warning signs already becoming evident in regard to the manager's in-game management, at least we were enjoying decent bouts of play for some parts of the game. Something that could perhaps be harnessed and expounded upon. 

 

However, the nature of the defeat to Leicester has proved significant. On the back of what must have been some sense of inner-realisation that he was responsible for throwing that game away, Sherwood has clearly lost a huge chunk of self-belief and has subsequently lost the plot. 

Edited October 5, 2015 by Isa

[theboyangel]

 

Tim Sherwood has challenged Aston Villa to man up when they resume their Premier League recovery mission against struggling Chelsea.

Sherwood accepts responsibility for the claret and blues’ precarious position in the bottom three of the early season table.

But the Villa boss insists his embryonic squad must come of age quickly if they are to start their climb to safety.

Sherwood has made a dozen new signings and waved farewell to a similar number of players during a summer of huge change for the club.

They have a two-week break to address where they have been going wrong before taking on Jose Mourinho’s crumbling champions at Stamford Bridge on October 17.

“I like to try to win enough games rather than going out there not to be beat because I’ve done that a few times and you end up getting beat anyway,” said Sherwood.

“I’d rather go to win but I need to find a team out of the squad who can go to places like Stamford Bridge and not be scared and are willing to put up a fight and be brave on the football.

“I’m learning all the time about them. They train hard, they’re all good lads. I need some men to come out of the woodwork.”

Sherwood acknowledges that Villa’s situation could get worse before it gets better but maintains that it is still too early to call it a relegation battle.

“Quite possibly, yes, but I’m confident in my ability to be able to turn this around and try and get a spark,” he added.

“At the moment I’m still searching for that. Our performances earlier on in the season, certainly at Leicester for a period of time, have been okay but not been great and not been consisent.

“In the end in this league you get what you deserve. It’s too early for a relegation battle. There’s still so many points to be won. Back to back wins can send you up the league and I'm confident we’ll be able to do that.”

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-boss-tim-sherwood-10201178

 

It just gets worse..... 

 

Admitting he's tried not to lose matches but still failed!?!?!?

The second bit sounds a lot like a mix up of DOL and Lambert.... Maybe if TS instructed the players on some tactics/positional play they'd fair better?

This isn't going to end well at all and it sounds like wishful thinking on TS's behalf that he'll be able to turn it around.

 

 

 

[Guest av1]

I also think that the next few weeks could tell us a lot in terms of how the club is being run at board level.

My main gripe with the club over the last few years is not the mistakes, everyone makes those. Its the fact that the same mistakes are made over and over again.

Should Fox sack Sherwood, his appointment, after 8 months or so, it would show a ruthless side as well as an admittance that he has got this one wrong. 

[avfc1982am]

 

I am incredibly disappointed with how things are going, as I expected a few more points, not alot more, but a few more, and a much more expansive style - and I'm confused as to whats going on. But lets see what happens in the next 2 games. As it is, we havn't been embarrassed by any team we have played, we've lost by single goals, and in most games the opposition have been penned back for large periods while we have tried to get back in the game - that is something at least.

I too wasn't expecting the world but as a minimum I would have liked to see us on 10 points (realistically 12 points) given the relatively soft start we had.

What does he need to do in the next two games to save his job?

Play Carles Gil for a start, give Ayew another start because the lad deserves to, and get Westwood off set pieces. Not play 3-5-2 again because we aren't good enough at the back or midfield to vacate spaces on the pitch. Plus, have a go at Chelsea and try to win the game next week even if we are to lose. Oh! and beat Swansea at home, anything less and I'm seriously pissed off!