The Tim Sherwood Thread

[Villanun]

I think saying Lambert didn't get the best out of Benteke is bending the truth somewhat. Lambert made him. Sherwood got very lucky that his return to fitness coincided with his appointment. 

In the season before coming to us Benteke made 37 appearances for Genk and scored 19 goals. I would suggest that he made himself.

[Villarocker]

When you look at those results since we were safe last season, they don't make good reading at all. 

9 defeats and 1 draw. Our 3 wins included 2 close cup wins against lower league opposition and a first day victory over a newly promoted team. 

That's not good reading even if you are a staunch fan of Sherwood. 

[Zatman]

I could pick 20 members of VILLA TALK to pick a proper side, set the team up right according to the opposition and make astute substitutions. 

Delegate all the training ground stuff and dressing room talk to Wilkins and Co.

Sorted.

And I'm serious.

yet amazingly not one member of Villatalk is a professional football manager never mind a successful one

*that we are aware of*

So what?

 

This idea that if you're not working as a professional manager then it's impossible for you to have a decent working knowledge of the game frustrates me. While it's not impossible to get into management with no footballing experience, the only big name I can think of that's done so is Villas-Boas. Football is an Old Boys club, where footballers are encouraged to go for their badges as soon as they retire and where it's both incredibly difficult and incredibly expensive to get employed if you weren't a pro player. It's like saying that if you're not working in a top Michelin-starred restaurant then you must be a shit cook.

 

The alternative is that the only people who could possibly have any good ideas about tactics are already employed as managers, which doesn't bode well for when they retire.

 

Edit - To clarify, I am certainly not pretending that I could do the job. I'm a born critic, inasmuch as I can't do anything well but I sure as hell know what I don't like.

my point was its easier to talk a good game from behind a keyboard. I see people coming on here saying they can motivate the players a lot better but I bet if Tim asked them to go in and talk to the players they would shit themselves before walking in the door

[Isa]

I think saying Lambert didn't get the best out of Benteke is bending the truth somewhat. Lambert made him. Sherwood got very lucky that his return to fitness coincided with his appointment. 

Once again, Benteke returned from injury on October 4th. Sherwood was appointed on February 14th. Your point is invalid and you know it.

[CrackpotForeigner]

Sherwood's right, the team needs a spark.... perhaps the coaching staff can provide one....

 

 

Perhaps not.

He doesnt look like he wants to be there.  

narrow it down , which one are you talking about?

Well, for me Wilkins is in the clear here, having taken the time to tilt his head fractionally to the right and wear an expression that suggests he's considering the idea of raising one eyebrow slightly.

[VillaChris]

Sherwood deseves credit for installing Grealish into the first 11 at least deep in a relegation battle, Lambert had washed his hands and was loaning him to Wolves wasn't he? Wouldn't even play him when we were snoozing in mid table.

Edited October 5, 2015 by VillaChris

[supernova26]

Returned from injury and returning to fitness are two separate things. He was way off the pace.  Maybe you should look up Benteke's goal record under Lambert?? 

This Sherwood bought the best out of Beteke like he did Adebayor was a myth based on lazy journalism. Stay away from tabloids and learn the game. 

As someone said earlier it could be argued Benteke made himself because he's decent whoever he's under. But am I BOB going to give Sherwood credit for anything Benteke done. 

Edited October 5, 2015 by supernova26

[CrackpotForeigner]

Returned from injury and returning to fitness are two separate things. He was way off the pace.  Maybe you should look up Benteke's goal record under Lambert?? 

This Sherwood bought the best out of Beteke like he did Adebayor was a myth based on lazy journalism. Stay away from tabloids and learn the game. 

Patronising, but true

[Isa]

Stay away from tabloids and learn the game. 

 

Haha! Ok pal.

 

Edit: Lambert's record with Benteke in previous seasons is irrelevent. Your assumption is that Benteke would have gone on that run if Lambert had remained. Seeing as the team were on course to be record low scorers in the division and were creating zilch, I disagree. 

Edited October 5, 2015 by Isa

[CrackpotForeigner]

“People don’t understand,” Liverpool’s new centre-forward says when asked about Sherwood’s part in his revival. “That was a bit frustrating. It was like I had never been injured. He came in at a good time, at a time when I was getting fit and getting better, so it was a good time for both of us.“The right time for him and for me. OK, he helped me a lot but I had been injured for a long time and I was getting back to what I could do. It was just a question of time. With Paul Lambert it was hard because I had just come back and had to help the team. We were struggling. When Tim came I was feeling better than before.”

 

Quoted here: http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/aug/06/christian-benteke-liverpool-tim-sherwood

[avfc1982am]

I don't know about December tbh. I think the next home game against Swansea is massive. 

If I'm honest after reflecting on Saturday and the way we set up to play Stoke he's lost my backing. Waiting until half time before switching things around done my head in as we were lucky to go in level and were getting terrorised down the flanks. I felt after about 15-20 mins he could've tried a number of variables without changing personnel in order to get some sort of hold on the game. Even dropping Amavi back as Lescott was getting pulled all over the gaff.He could've then shifted the 3 CB's along and pushed Hutton into RM in front of Crespo , pulled Sinclair to LM and pushed Veretout behind Gestede until half time. He just sat there all Lambertesk.

To start with though playing 3-5-2 against a 4-3-3 without an advanced AM was ludicrous. Then to wait for Stoke to score before bringing on Ayew or Gil killed it for me. As soon as they netted you knew they would try to shut up shop. It was just all too predictable.

I am content to hold in my frustrations at the moment but if I am honest that will switch should Swansea turn us over.  

[supernova26]

Stay away from tabloids and learn the game. 

 

Haha! Ok pal.

 

Edit: Lambert's record with Benteke in previous seasons is irrelevent. Your assumption is that Benteke would have gone on that run if Lambert had remained. Seeing as the team were on course to be record low scorers in the division and were creating zilch, I disagree. 

We agree to disagree

[supernova26]

“People don’t understand,” Liverpool’s new centre-forward says when asked about Sherwood’s part in his revival. “That was a bit frustrating. It was like I had never been injured. He came in at a good time, at a time when I was getting fit and getting better, so it was a good time for both of us.“The right time for him and for me. OK, he helped me a lot but I had been injured for a long time and I was getting back to what I could do. It was just a question of time. With Paul Lambert it was hard because I had just come back and had to help the team. We were struggling. When Tim came I was feeling better than before.”

 

Quoted here: http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/aug/06/christian-benteke-liverpool-tim-sherwood

 

From the man himself! And exactly my thoughts at the time. Oh how I miss Big Ben  

Edited October 5, 2015 by supernova26

[Nabby]

Interesting tactics review of Sherwood at Spurs 

http://www.spursfanatic.com/blog/5-consistent-tactical-errors-tim-sherwood/ 

 

I found this comment at the bottom very telling and sums up alot of my issues with him ,,lack of a clear plan.

Excellent analysis.

It just shows the essential differences between Villas-Boas and Sherwood.
Andre was wedded to his system & despite the problems found within it (lack of goals mainly) it was coherent & repeatable. Players had an idea of what was required from them within the system and were interchangeable. But for the clear off-field issues, I feel we would have found a solid future with him, but he went & his intransigence was to his detriment. (To my mind he went cos he wanted to and probably after he’d been pressured to change his ways).

Sherwood in contrast is a blend of good ideas that don’t make a whole.
I like the ‘central winger’ idea, and kudos to you for spotting it, but it’s not being utilised effectively. The high line is fine but with zero pressing, is insane.

Concentration levels throughout the squad seem lackadaisical, hence the repeated errors. Time and again the first half of matches has been abysmal thus requiring the classic rocket at half time to get them playing and the players just don’t seem to have bought Sherwood’s methods. Maybe they know he’s a lame duck coach and stopped caring, maybe they think he’s guessing his way along and haven’t bought into his ideas.

What is clear to me is that to have any potential to improve next season, we need a recognised coach with experience and a tactical system to employ. The squad is good enough and young enough to improve for it.

One of Villas Boas’ problems was cutting himself and the squad off from the rest of the club & wider media. In contrast, Sherwood does interviews all the time and makes ludicrous admissions like ‘I’ve not watched much of Liverpool.’ He seems to think he can just send the players out with belief and it’ll be enough. It’s not.

I was willing to give him a chance when he started but he’s made too many mistakes.

Thanks Tim, but no thanks.

 

[Zatman]

Returned from injury and returning to fitness are two separate things. He was way off the pace.  Maybe you should look up Benteke's goal record under Lambert?? 

This Sherwood bought the best out of Beteke like he did Adebayor was a myth based on lazy journalism. Stay away from tabloids and learn the game. 

As someone said earlier it could be argued Benteke made himself because he's decent whoever he's under. But am I BOB going to give Sherwood credit for anything Benteke done. 

the last 3 months under Lambert, Benteke was sluggish, unmotivated and strolling around the pitch like he was Zlatan

He got 13 goals in 15 games under Sherwood while had 13 goals in 46 games the previous 18 months under Lambert

[Isa]

That Benteke interview was a reaction to some offense he took from Sherwood's comments about him not suiting Liverpool. So naturally it was laced with an agenda. He said totally different months before and publicly said that Sherwood's intervention was important because the team create more chances. 

 

Anyway, it doesn't matter to me the importance of Sherwood's contribution. For the sake of the argument, I can accept that he gets no credit for it because as I've already said on a few occasions, short-term impact isn't an indicator of managerial ability. I'm thankful to him for last season but he needs to leave sooner rather than later if he isn't to undo it by leaving us in an irretrievable mess.

[CrackpotForeigner]

I wouldn't put much stock in what Woodward coaxes out of a player on AVTV.

[The Fun Factory]

If the club had any intelligence Sherwood would have been given a 6 month contract and the incentive for a long term deal after we stayed up.  And then let him go. The last 3 games would have probably made most people's minds up. 

We have a 2 week window in which to thank him for his efforts for last season and accept he is not really top level management material. He could have a career elsewhere in football back in youth development, but he just looks way out of his depth as the boss. We can either accept we cocked this up and sack him now, or faff about for 6 to 8 weeks and then sack him when we are about 6 points adrift from safety. Its going to be option 2 isn't it?

[Blasterpocket68]

Yes it will be option 2 but we are already 4 point adrift it will be more like 8 to 10 points unless we act now!!!!!!!!!

[Isa]

I wouldn't put much stock in what Woodward coaxes out of a player on AVTV.

 

That's fair. If I remember correctly, the comments I refer to were from a paper rather than the official site (could be wrong) but the usual PR stuff you'd expect all the same. You can also pour scepticism on his later comments for the reason stated above. 

 

I did think at the time that his claim about when exactly he found full match fitness to be a little convenient. I mean, that he'd been back in the team for four months but suddenly the sharpness returned at the point of the managerial change. Then again, I don't know exactly how long such a recovery should take. I'm fairly certain that he would have returned to a sufficient level of fitness a fair bit sooner than four months (playing regularly) but I'm happy to be corrected by somebody with superior medical knowledge. 

 

Reading this back, I suppose it's all a bit trivial really. 

Edited October 6, 2015 by Isa