The Tim Sherwood Thread

[StefanAVFC]

Don't want to quote the entire tree as it messes up formatting but agree with Stevo.

Nobody denies that he's had it tough but even factoring in how tough he has it, he's doing a shit job.

Regardless of the players he has, you can't make excuses for all his failings as a manager.

Some of which were clear when he had better players at Spurs.

[bobzy]

 

 

You're the one twisting words and then being deliberately awkward over Gueye/Delph.

The team that played our last game against Burnley had the spine as Steer, Vlaar, Delph and Benteke.  He's replaced players with loads of others that quite obviously need time to settle and understand how their new teammates and new manager want them to play (noticed this was Sherwood's fault in your opinion - who bought the players though?).

"What's the problem?".  And you call me obtuse.

You can't seriously be counting Steer as the spine of the team?
Vlaar hardly played last season.

He lost Delph and benteke. According to you and Zat he's replaced Delph with a better player.

So that leaves Benteke. it's a big loss, but is that big enough to explain the dreadful performances we've seen so far?
I'm not sure it is.

Nobody is saying Sherwood's had an easy job. What people are saying is he is failing at that job completely miserably.

No, Steer isn't - I just picked the last game of the season to highlight the difference.

Vlaar "hardly playing" was over half of our Premier League games, as our chief experienced defender.

Yes, I think Gueye is a better player than Delph.  No, I don't think Gueye has fully settled into life at Villa.  I don't think we've even found our "best eleven" yet.  Have we had the same lineup twice this campaign?

Benteke is a monumental loss, but I think the squad has been strengthened overall.  It was always going to take time.  I think Sherwood has done an alright job - not failing miserably in my books.  We haven't been stuffed by anyone and haven't looked like being stuffed by anyone.

I've said it before - the "kind" start to the season is actually a huge problem for us because it means a winnable-on-paper runs of games is the first few competitive games where an entirely new squad is getting to know each other.

"So that leaves Benteke" is so incredibly wide of the mark.  Or how was it you put it?

[bobzy]

To call Cleverley a part of our spine is clutching at straws a tad considering he had about 4 good games.

I think you're misunderstanding what being part of a spine means.

[markavfc40]

not many managers in the world would be able to cope with the spine of his team ripped out never mind their 1st job

 

And that is the biggest excuse, for want of a better word, he can give for the poor start. I do think some supporters have been a little flippant about the fact that we did have to replace arguably the four best players he inherited. To have replaced them with like for like proven quality and experience we’d have arguably had to spend more than we got for them given that Delph went for half his true market value, Vlaar left on a free and Cleverley was on loan.

I have seen numerous pundits state that we have a worse side than we had last season I though myself think we did well in the transfer window given what we had to spend, what we had to replace, and that we also reduced the wage bill. I am though taking a huge leap of faith with a lot of the signings. I knew nothing of most of the foreign lads if I am honest. Almost all of them have come with very good reputations but also came from a weaker league. From what we have seen so far Amavi looks good going forward but at times all over the place defensively and has been caught out by the pace of the league, Gana looks a really accomplished player, Veretout and Ayew have shown both glimpses of being good players and at times looked out of their depth and Traore again has looked like a world beater at times and at other times like a headless chicken running into brick walls. Those five players took up 80% of what we spent and in judging as a collective you would have to say they have been hit and miss, all have potential but it is going to take time for them to settle but there is a chance that they won’t all become accomplished players in this league.

The loss of four big players from last season’s squad and the overall huge turn over in players and time it will take some of the new lads to settle isn't me making excuses for our diabolical start by the way. It is just simply a fact that is what has happened. In addition it may well be the case that some of the players were not the mangers choice and he’d have wanted to go a different route but if this is what he signed up to in terms of Riley and Almstadt having a big say on transfers then he can have little complaint now.

I genuinely think a lot of managers would have struggled given what Sherwood inherited and what happened over the summer. Certainly they may well have struggled initially in getting so many new players to gel. However not to the extent to which Sherwood has and a more experienced and clued up manager would not have made some of the school boy errors that Sherwood has. I do get the impression though he is now in last chance saloon and he either shits or gets off the pot, or is forced off it, if we fail to beat Swansea.

 

 

Edited October 20, 2015 by markavfc40

[Stevo985]

If our start to the season is "an alright job" then we are absolutely ****.

God knows what a bad job looks like if this isn't it.

Edited October 20, 2015 by Stevo985

[useless]

Delph is overrated, Vlaar was overrated and always injured, Cleverly was average and I wouldn't have in the team ahead of Westwood. There's no excuses for only winning one game, and even in that match I thought Bournemouth were the better team. People talked about not being bothered about Lerner selling the club because Fox is 'running the show', but to me it looks as though things are the same as they ever were.

[StefanAVFC]

But the point is, Sherwood isn't struggling because of those reasons.

It's his own fault for making the same mistakes over and over again which is the reason he got the boot at Spurs (with far better players!)

I've never known someone talk so much shit either.

[bobzy]

If our start to the season is "an alright job" then we are absolutely ****.

Our start to the season is poor, our survival last season was good.  Overall, he's done "an alright job".

Results are the only thing that matter and Sherwood doesn't have enough points this season.  He seems lost, I can't really see how he's getting out of this, I'm not convinced he's the man for the job but I don't think he's been "failing completely miserably" on the whole.

I think we looked poor against West Brom and Stoke but, other than that, have been 'OK' this season on the whole.  We should've won against Leicester (Sherwood's fault) and Sunderland (players' fault), should've got a draw against Palace (players' fault) and were unlucky against Man Utd and West Brom (despite being poor) in other ways.  Basically, this could be quite a bit better right now without anything other than very specific incidents on the pitch happening.

It isn't that we look like a car crash of a team IMO.

[Stevo985]

The problem I have with the "the team need time to settle" argument is that they're not settling. I was saying the same thing after a few games.

But it's not like the team are improving. It's not like you can watch a game and think "I can see what's being built here, but it's going to take time". It's aimless. Nobody looks like they're improving. if anything, players look like they're being unsettled.

The fans don't know what the direction is, the players don't appear to know, and the manager has openly admitted he doesn't know what to do.

I find it quite bizarre that people are comfortable with that.

[ReasonforRevolution]

For those who haven't read the Collymore article the link is below. It is worth a read and may alter opinions of Sherwood and the task in hand.....

http://www.myoldmansaid.com/stan-collymore-statement-home-truths-about-aston-villa/

 

[jim]

 

This one will definitely not save us.

 

A fair few on here said the same when he arrived last season, that turned out ok.

Personally I hope he gets until at least Christmas to turn things around.

[bobzy]

The problem I have with the "the team need time to settle" argument is that they're not settling. I was saying the same thing after a few games.

But it's not like the team are improving. It's not like you can watch a game and think "I can see what's being built here, but it's going to take time". It's aimless. Nobody looks like they're improving. if anything, players look like they're being unsettled.

The fans don't know what the direction is, the players don't appear to know, and the manager has openly admitted he doesn't know what to do.

I find it quite bizarre that people are comfortable with that.

I'm in between the two points.  I think the team (as a collective of players) are slowly improving and getting used to things. However, we haven't developed any particular style or strategy since these new players have come in.

I look back to last season where we played a very similar system every game to allow Benteke to flourish and simply can't fathom that Sherwood doesn't have this ability in him.  I think the new players (on the whole) have been signed from above him and he genuinely doesn't know how to accommodate them.  That's a worry - a huge worry - but not one I necessarily place entirely on Sherwood.

The problem is that we're 9/10 games into the season.  Even if Sherwood doesn't know where the players are best equipped to play, he needs to settle on a strategy and get it implemented in training and on the pitch.

[AshVilla]

I don't know how people can use "the team needs time to settle" argument in the first place as some kind of defense of Sherwood

Especially when he changes the system/team week in week out i bet they don't know if they are coming or going....

The fact he's had a full preseason and 11 premier league games and still doesn't know his best team then comes out with excuses like "they are not fit enough" speaks for itself

He's out of his depth and needs to go before we get relegated and as far as i'm concerned it's not a question of if we go down its when we go down with this man in charge

 

Edited October 20, 2015 by AshVilla

[Lerner's Driver]

"I think we looked poor against West Brom and Stoke but, other than that, have been 'OK' this season on the whole.  We should've won against Leicester (Sherwood's fault) and Sunderland (players' fault), should've got a draw against Palace (players' fault) and were unlucky against Man Utd and West Brom (despite being poor) in other ways.  Basically, this could be quite a bit better right now without anything other than very specific incidents on the pitch happening"

Bobzy, you are right in your analysis of individual matches, but what you are missing is the cumulative effect. If we are not there yet, and actually I'd argue that we are, sooner or later playing quite well, but still losing quickly turns into hopeless shite and that is very hard to reverse. Lambert was the very epitome of this and now Sherwood is repeating the trick.

You can definitely say its not all his fault - we are rotten from top to bottom, but that's how it is at the moment and somebody has to do the job, so it makes sense to employ an old soldier, rather than a rookie - someone whose been around and can take the stick whilst still making something good happen. Allardyce, much as his football is unpleasant, is that kind of guy - Sherwood, Rodgers and Monk are not. Allardyce has gone so, whose left?

[useless]

Everything seems to be pointing to him being sacked. Apart from the fact that he hasn't been sacked, I don't know what's going on with Fox and Lerner. I think I'd actually trust Kevin MacDonald to get us more points until a replacement is found.

[villa4europe]

Palace wasnt just the players fault, we were at 0-0 and doing ok when sherwood took off our defensive midfielder, who was our best player, and brought on a winger, same with leicester, he went for it at a time when he didnt have to, blues first half was his fault, west brom, stoke etc wanting the ball far more than we did, the players heads dropping as soon as the goal went in vs chelsea, thats his fault

him constantly **** about with the formation and players isnt anyone's fault but his own

i dont think anyone who wants him gone isnt claiming that the club is a shambles from top to bottom, but that still doesnt excuse his performance or his ridiculous sound bite comments that are making himself and us the laughing stock of the premier league

go back to my comment from earlier, people in the media old boys club who dont watch us every week sticking up for their old boys club mate and attacking us that do unfortunately watch us every week, do i know more about football than stan collymore? probably not, but i can guarantee ive seen us play more games than he has this season

Edited October 20, 2015 by villa4europe

[El-Reacho]

though on the Moneyball approach I dont think we did sign players from that. Midjylland won Danish league playing a "Moneyball" approach and had a lot of goals from set pieces which I imagine would be a main part of stats that you could use in football.

Rule 1 of Moneyball would be get Westwood off **** set pieces

Liverpool have made some cracking signings using the moneyball approach.

 

Isn't the Moneyball approach spending bugger all on players that nobody else wants and then utilizing the one key strength they might have to maximum effect?

Liverpool spent bucket loads of cash - it definitely wasn't the moneyball approach. Think Ferguson is getting mixed up with the front office thing in baseball as opposed to the moneyball thing. Maybe some MLB fans could clarify??

[hippo]

Don't want to quote the entire tree as it messes up formatting but agree with Stevo.

Nobody denies that he's had it tough but even factoring in how tough he has it, he's doing a shit job.

Regardless of the players he has, you can't make excuses for all his failings as a manager.

Some of which were clear when he had better players at Spurs.

Don't want to quote the entire tree as it messes up formatting but agree with Stevo.

Nobody denies that he's had it tough but even factoring in how tough he has it, he's doing a shit job.

Regardless of the players he has, you can't make excuses for all his failings as a manager.

Some of which were clear when he had better players at Spurs.

Sherwood is rightly taking the flak, but equally those above him, who let Pullis, Allardyce, Moyes slip by - then appointed TS take a bigger share of the blame. Worryingly its they who take the next steps...... 

 

[Zatman]

Don't want to quote the entire tree as it messes up formatting but agree with Stevo.

Nobody denies that he's had it tough but even factoring in how tough he has it, he's doing a shit job.

Regardless of the players he has, you can't make excuses for all his failings as a manager.

Some of which were clear when he had better players at Spurs.

 

Don't want to quote the entire tree as it messes up formatting but agree with Stevo.

Nobody denies that he's had it tough but even factoring in how tough he has it, he's doing a shit job.

Regardless of the players he has, you can't make excuses for all his failings as a manager.

Some of which were clear when he had better players at Spurs.

 

Sherwood is rightly taking the flak, but equally those above him, who let Pullis, Allardyce, Moyes slip by - then appointed TS take a bigger share of the blame. Worryingly its they who take the next steps...... 

 

It breaks my heart that our club have not went and chased 1 dimensional long ball British managers

[hippo]

I don't know how people can use "the team needs time to settle" argument in the first place as some kind of defense of Sherwood

Especially when he changes the system/team week in week out i bet they don't know if they are coming or going....

The fact he's had a full preseason and 11 premier league games and still doesn't know his best team then comes out with excuses like "they are not fit enough" speaks for itself

He's out of his depth and needs to go before we get relegated and as far as i'm concerned it's not a question of if we go down its when we go down with this man in charg

 

The team may need time to reach its peak and fully 'click' , but that doesn't mean they should look totally useless taking beating after beating, week in week out, in the interim. Got to say I m not convinced there is a decent team to be assembled with what we have.