theunderstudy Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Raised a catholic, probably agnostic, not massively fussed about religion, don't love it, don't hate it, but I am fine with people enjoying it for themselves, provided they don't try to force it on anyone else. Religion is someone's belief, whether enforced or not. Is it wrong for someone from Birmingham to support Arsenal instead of Villa? Different situation of course... less deaths as a consequence of it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted November 20, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted November 20, 2011 Raised a catholic, probably agnostic, not massively fussed about religion, don't love it, don't hate it, but I am fine with people enjoying it for themselves, provided they don't try to force it on anyone else. Religion is someone's belief, whether enforced or not. Is it wrong for someone from Birmingham to support Arsenal instead of Villa? Different situation of course... less deaths as a consequence of it..At least Arsenal demonstrably exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knoppy1987 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 As above ^. As soon as someone comes and starts preaching I can get annoyed depending on the questions. Same with vegetarians. As far as I am concerned you can only believe in yourself as that is who you can control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theunderstudy Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 You know what I mean. It's people's (or their family's) respective choices. If you choose to believe in a God, ok. If you don't, ok. But at the end of the day that's what free will is for. I think my parents would want me to visit church every week but I also think they are of the opinion that they can't stop me failing to do so. You make your own path, and if people want to believe in religion I'll not be stopping them any time soon. I personally am generally apathetic to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 The vast majority of believers are indoctrinated into the beliefs of their parents .Is that a choice ? I doubt it . As for the notion that we all have free will, well I have to disagree to some extent . Everything you do or think is the direct result of your physical brain making you carry out that action . Your brain is a biological computer and is only as good as the spec it has (I.e your genetic make up ) and the software it picks up through life (I.e. your environmental upbringing and education ). People seem to have this belief that there is a seperate "you" who is in control of their brain which can't be true as your brain is "you" . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDon Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 It's people's (or their family's) respective choices. And here is the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviramsey Posted November 20, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted November 20, 2011 The vast majority of believers are indoctrinated into the beliefs of their parents .Is that a choice ? I doubt it . As for the notion that we all have free will, well I have to disagree to some extent . Everything you do or think is the direct result of your physical brain making you carry out that action . Your brain is a biological computer and is only as good as the spec it has (I.e your genetic make up ) and the software it picks up through life (I.e. your environmental upbringing and education ). People seem to have this belief that there is a seperate "you" who is in control of their brain which can't be true as your brain is "you" . Absolute nonsense. (as is the whole of this thread) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted November 20, 2011 Moderator Share Posted November 20, 2011 The vast majority of believers are indoctrinated into the beliefs of their parents .Is that a choice ? I doubt it . As for the notion that we all have free will, well I have to disagree to some extent . Everything you do or think is the direct result of your physical brain making you carry out that action . Your brain is a biological computer and is only as good as the spec it has (I.e your genetic make up ) and the software it picks up through life (I.e. your environmental upbringing and education ). People seem to have this belief that there is a seperate "you" who is in control of their brain which can't be true as your brain is "you" . Absolute nonsense. (as is the whole of this thread) Seemed pretty accurate to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 The vast majority of believers are indoctrinated into the beliefs of their parents .Is that a choice ? I doubt it . As for the notion that we all have free will, well I have to disagree to some extent . Everything you do or think is the direct result of your physical brain making you carry out that action . Your brain is a biological computer and is only as good as the spec it has (I.e your genetic make up ) and the software it picks up through life (I.e. your environmental upbringing and education ). People seem to have this belief that there is a seperate "you" who is in control of their brain which can't be true as your brain is "you" . Absolute nonsense. (as is the whole of this thread) Good rebuttal . Why do you disagree when biologists and neuroscientists are very much of this opinion ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YLN Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 A question for the atheists: Since abandoning religion, do you feel more alone and listless? Do you miss the idea that it's not all completely pointless and that what you do will matter when you and everyone that knew you is dead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDon Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 A question for the atheists: Since abandoning religion, do you feel more alone and listless? Do you miss the idea that it's not all completely pointless and that what you do will matter when you and everyone that knew you is dead? Au contraire. I feel atheism actually opens you up to actually live life for what it is, a fleeting moment that exists despite all improbability that you should make the most of. Sure it's ultimately pointless, but does that actually matter? You might not have a lasting legacy, but you have an impact on the people around you still. It also opens you up to being more honest with the people around you. When you see that when you die that's it you're in a better position to actually say what you think rather than if you're one of the "we'll meet back up in the afterlife" crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sie Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 A question for the atheists: Since abandoning religion, do you feel more alone and listless? Do you miss the idea that it's not all completely pointless and that what you do will matter when you and everyone that knew you is dead? No. I never had a religion to think any of that and I don't need a belief in "something more" to have my existence mean something very special to me. The idea that the only thing that makes a person's existence meaningful is a belief in God (and what God has in store for them) is an incredibly depressing perspective on life in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted November 20, 2011 Moderator Share Posted November 20, 2011 A question for the atheists: Since abandoning religion... I haven't abandoned any religion, as long as I've been able to think clearly about such nonsense (age 5 or 6) I've always been of the opinion that this god thing was a load of tosh. My parents sent me to Sunday school when I was young (I suspect so they could shag whilst I was there) and it was the biggest load of incomprehensible bollocks I'd ever heard, my questions really used to wind up the adults who took the classes. I think I was playing with them even then, eventually my parents had to find something else for me to do on a Sunday. It only dawned on me years later that they sent me there, so they could have sex! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 A question for the atheists: Since abandoning religion... .... My parents sent me to Sunday school when I was young (I suspect so they could shag whilst I was there) ..... which is fine providing they stayed home An opportunity for some rare unconfined sex is probably the only reason any parent would send kids off to Sunday School without feeling the need to attend church themselves. Best of luck to them too. The church knows the deal. Here are my kids, you have an hour a week until they are 12 to try and get them all goded up. Do not come back within the hour and expect the door to be answered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted November 20, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted November 20, 2011 Being depressed because there is no afterlife is like being depressed because you don't have superpowers. One life, enjoy it to the max (and be nice to people along the way), then shut down and let the next lot have their go. Absolutely fine by me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Being depressed because there is no afterlife is like being depressed because you don't have superpowers. Nice analogy. and what you said after too. In retrospect should have quoted the whole post, never mind. Life's full of choices, and self determination - define it however you want, make the most of it enjoy it and all that. ( plus all the caveats of don't be a cnut, etc ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted November 20, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted November 20, 2011 A question for the atheists: Since abandoning religion, do you feel more alone and listless? Do you miss the idea that it's not all completely pointless and that what you do will matter when you and everyone that knew you is dead? I didn't abandon religion. I didn't ever really believe it, we got spoonfed it at school and at that age, 6ish, you don't really give a shit how the world came to be, and once I did start to wonder I quickly decided that the stuff we were being taught was pretty likely to be tosh. Around the same time I got into watching natural history programmes properly and thoughts of the rubbish I'd been fed vanished. But no it doesn't make me feel more alone - when I was on my own at times, I was alone, thats all there is to it. I don't find it depressing, that everything is ultimately rather pointless. I find it quite comforting. Theres no great worry if things go wrong, asides for my own fortunes. And it provides a drive, not listlessness. There is 1 chance, you can't go round again, today is only today once, and what you make of it is all you'll ever make of it, so try to enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Not managed to collate enough tangible evidence to make any sort of reasoned decision on what the bloody hell is going on regarding spiritual matters. Maybe the evidence is there and I'm just not getting it? It's pretty safe to say the majority of the globe's historic spiritual writings can be rejected as 'a bit silly'. Strange stuff still happens though, makes it interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NowDoINotLikeThat Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Well i was baptised but my parents weren't religious. I didn't go to a religious school or church very often so i don't really have any hang ups on religion. I'm pretty open to idea of a "God" of sorts tbh.. tho what exactly that is i dnno i dont believe in a particular deity of such - i guess what im trying to say i am agnostic rather than atheist. I'm not religious myself but do find it fascinating at same time. I think you are hopelessly naive if think religion was gone tomorrow and there was some type of utopia. People will fight over a football match. Tho will add the Vatican is most surreal place ive ever been and i do loathe the Catholic church. worth noting how bizarely Judaism escapes any criticism in these type of debates tho ... Nevermind your Mad Mullah's or evangelicals in USA - do ppl not realise some of the Jewish orthodoxy are equally as mental and have very literal interpretations of Old Testament? "Chosen people" etc.. No im not being anti semitic - just throwing it out there that sometimes us wishy washy europeans are sometimes overly inward looking . Never hear LOL@ Buddhists , or LOL@ Sikhs that much do you? Frankly some Joe Blogg bastards would probably be better off with some God fearing in them! Again not religious myself at all but meh / cant get to wound up over some believing some stuff i dont either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 probably agnostic, not massively fussed about religion, don't love it, don't hate it, but I am fine with people enjoying it for themselves, provided they don't try to force it on anyone else. I'm with Andrew. As long as they do 'enjoy' it, that is. Live and let live, and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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