Trinity-Tom Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Agreed. I do believe in a "force" of some description but I'm not sure what it is. That'll be gravity. It's a card trick actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted June 15, 2007 Author Share Posted June 15, 2007 All this is screaming to me that perhaps if these three massive groups of people who have spent pretty much eternity kicking the shit out of each other basically agree on one ultimate truth, well, there has to be something in it. Why? There was a time in human history when virtually everybody believed that the Earth was flat and that the sun went around the Earth. Yes, and that was quickly dispelled wasnt it? Big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 three groups believing in the wealth of power control and human manipulation? yeah that seems about right to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted June 15, 2007 VT Supporter Share Posted June 15, 2007 All this is screaming to me that perhaps if these three massive groups of people who have spent pretty much eternity kicking the shit out of each other basically agree on one ultimate truth, well, there has to be something in it. Why? There was a time in human history when virtually everybody believed that the Earth was flat and that the sun went around the Earth. Yes, and that was quickly dispelled wasnt it? Big difference. No it wasn't. It went on for centuries and people died at the hands of the the religious mafia for questioning it. To turn your logic on its head: All this is screaming to me that perhaps if these three massive groups of people who claim that they believe in a God of peace, love and mercy have spent pretty much eternity kicking the shit out of each other, well, it has to be bollocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted June 15, 2007 Author Share Posted June 15, 2007 Now thats bringing politics into it, and twisting away from the original point. My argument is if people who dislike each other, who disagree on so many other issues, who live in entirely different worlds have to admit they agree on the one universal truth then it at least deserves some of my time investigating further. If i like what i see and i agree with it or am convinced by it, thats taking the next step down the path to enlightenment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deaceydeaceyaggro Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 I've noticed there's a lot of Atheists on here, but I wonder how many of these have Church weddings, Funerals, Christen their kids etc, but still claim to be an Atheist. I reckon a fair few of them contradict themselves with this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 that's cultural stuff I guess. I'd consider myself an Atheist, but I wouldn't be aghast if my future wife wanted her day in a white dress in a church. Again, whilst I wouldn't want to christen my kids, if the future mrs me decided she wanted to, Id probably give in, or at least use it to get off housework for a year or something, test her resolve etc. Not bothered about funerals really as I won't be there to 'enjoy it'. Also I really don't think it's a massive contradiction celebrating certain festivities, either. I enjoy the xmas holidays, as there's families together, the odd good film on telly and the exchanging of gifts, so fadging what if it's done nominally in the name of some dead guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deaceydeaceyaggro Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 that's cultural stuff I guess. I'd consider myself an Atheist, but I wouldn't be aghast if my future wife wanted her day in a white dress in a church. Again, whilst I wouldn't want to christen my kids, if the future mrs me decided she wanted to, Id probably give in, or at least use it to get off housework for a year or something, test her resolve etc. Not bothered about funerals really as I won't be there to 'enjoy it'. Also I really don't think it's a massive contradiction celebrating certain festivities, either. I enjoy the xmas holidays, as there's families together, the odd good film on telly and the exchanging of gifts, so fadging what if it's done nominally in the name of some dead guy? I think that is classic contradiction to be honest. If you were a true Atheist you wouldn't go near a Church nor celebrate any of their festivals. You can't have your cake and eat it you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hycus-flange Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 I've noticed there's a lot of Atheists on here, but I wonder how many of these have Church weddings, Funerals, Christen their kids etc, but still claim to be an Atheist. I reckon a fair few of them contradict themselves with this issue. i put atheist, and my kids are not christened, i will not marry my missus in a church/ registary office because of the bullshit religious overtones of the ceremony, and up to now i havent had my funeral yet, but when it happens i wont be around to see it anyway, wheelybin would do, as long as there isnt someone spouting shit about god/afterlife over it, you are here now, and then when you are dead that is the end, worm food or ashes, thats yer lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Now thats bringing politics into it, and twisting away from the original point. My argument is if people who dislike each other, who disagree on so many other issues, who live in entirely different worlds have to admit they agree on the one universal truth then it at least deserves some of my time investigating further. If i like what i see and i agree with it or am convinced by it, thats taking the next step down the path to enlightenment. Human beings are naturally curious about the world about them. Religion is nothing more than primitive man's attempt to explain the world around him, and to enforce a set of laws. If there is an all powerful creator, do you think he'd be remotely bothered that Muslims don't eat pork or that Catholics go to confession? Religion is just an artificial set of rules, that has nothing to do with the existence of God or not. I'm not saying it's all bad, or that people shouldn't follow it as they see fit, but all this "lead a good life and go to Heaven" - pure bollocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olejniker Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Xmas is not a religious event. Christmas is. There's this whole "culture" of Christmas that frankly isn't really close to what the original is suppossed to be. So Aethists don't celebrate the fact that Jesus was born. They celebrate the good food, the gifts and everything that comes with the "culture" of Christmas. Same too with Easter, and all other major religious festivals. There's nothing wrong with Aethists celebrating religous events at all. And as for Christening the kids, it keeps the missus happy and somewhere in the back of each parent's mind is the thought that if their kid is Christened, he/she won't turn out so bad. Its not so much of a religious thing, these so-called religious acts/events that Aethists go through. Its an integral part of the culture of a society, and they shouldn't be criticized for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSufferingVilla Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Aethism seems very fashionable these days, and works well until you are lying covered in piss on your deathbed in excruciating agony and begging for Thor, Zeus or what ever God is most convenient for mercy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 but all this "lead a good life and go to Heaven" That's why you want to be catholic as you can leave a bad life and just pay for absolution ..and the good thing is it's on sliding scale depending on your wealth , so no reason to shop around for the cheapest hooker available Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted June 15, 2007 VT Supporter Share Posted June 15, 2007 Aethism seems very fashionable these days, and works well until you are lying covered in piss on your deathbed in excruciating agony and begging for Thor, Zeus or what ever God is most convenient for mercy. Precisely. Religion is largely a by-product of fear and wishful thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nepal_villan Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 I've noticed there's a lot of Atheists on here, but I wonder how many of these have Church weddings, Funerals, Christen their kids etc, but still claim to be an Atheist. I reckon a fair few of them contradict themselves with this issue. I participate in religious ceremonies not out of faith, but culture and tradition. Regardless of my opinion on God or religious institutions, I am fascinated with religious concepts, stories, art, etc. - it is a massive part of human history and life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted June 15, 2007 Author Share Posted June 15, 2007 Human beings are naturally curious about the world about them. Religion is nothing more than primitive man's attempt to explain the world around him, and to enforce a set of laws. If there is an all powerful creator, do you think he'd be remotely bothered that Muslims don't eat pork or that Catholics go to confession? Religion is just an artificial set of rules, that has nothing to do with the existence of God or not. I'm not saying it's all bad, or that people shouldn't follow it as they see fit, but all this "lead a good life and go to Heaven" - pure bollocks. A few points there. The first one, well its impossible to argue against. People will always want power, whether that be gained via politics, the military or religion. Total chicken and egg situation. Second is very much linked to the first. Its a test of faith isnt it? Do you remember your creator at religious festivals? Do you do it every sabbath? Every day? Its all about mans free will. If you believe the holy text is gods will, and the things he asks are true, then yes, he probably does care. I dont think i will go to hell if i eat a bacon sarnie or drink a pint of beer. I just dont feel the need to do either and im happy with that. Third and final one? Well if there is a god who has plans for life, dont you think he would have contacted mankind? Whether that be through Moses, Jesus, Muhammad or David Ike the point is that if you believe in something you try to make it part of your life. Thats religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nepal_villan Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Born Hindu, turned agnostic, and two days ago became an athiest. What happened two days ago, Nepal? Welcome to the club, by the way. Its a long story, but the reason I never totally dismissed the concept of God was because of a few personal experiences I have had (witnessing some incredible phenomenons) - if you hangout with lots of Hindus and Buddhists this is nothing unusual in our societies which is litterred with black magic, swamis, visions, etc. Randomly the other day, I came across an article by a person who had identical experiences to mine. It tied a lot of loose ends for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Third and final one? Well if there is a god who has plans for life, dont you think he would have contacted mankind? Whether that be through Moses, Jesus, Muhammad or David Ike the point is that if you believe in something you try to make it part of your life. Thats religion. Nope, I really don't. Human beings are just another type of life on the planet, no more or less important in the scheme of things than anything else. We're just lucky enough to exist on a lump of rock in a big universe which just happens to have the right conditions for life. All this looking for meaning in things is a bit primitive if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 No jedi or mormons? Same thing really.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelle Posted June 16, 2007 Share Posted June 16, 2007 "All I want is the same as everyone, Why am I here? And for how long?" My personal favourite "theory" is the one in the end of "Men in black" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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