sidcow Posted October 27, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted October 27, 2021 Why do illegal immigrants risk their lives to cross the Channel and get to the UK. They've reached the security of The West and safety. Why risk death to make it here? Is it literally our Welfare State or are there deeper reasons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 Just now, sidcow said: Why do illegal immigrants risk their lives to cross the Channel and get to the UK. They've reached the security of The West and safety. Why risk death to make it here? Is it literally our Welfare State or are there deeper reasons? My theory, and it's just a theory. We are a relatively tolerant nation, we see the downtrodden and we want to help. We have a welfare state, we have charities and we are essentially good. Couple that with a support network, refugees have been coming here for decades, so if you know other people of your nation are in a country, then you might be tempted to head there. Caveats, not all people are tolerant, or good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 Just now, sidcow said: Why do illegal immigrants risk their lives to cross the Channel and get to the UK. They've reached the security of The West and safety. Why risk death to make it here? Is it literally our Welfare State or are there deeper reasons? not why they come to the UK but i do definitely think there's a misconception from the right and numerous papers that they all want to come to the UK, there's more than a few that have settled down across europe for example there are around 50k syrians living in the uk compare that to 800k in germany i think that is partly due to scare mongering but then also with a splash of everyone wants to live in the UK because its so **** awesome there, rule britania, god save the queen, NHS is world class blah blah blah there's a lot more happy in the west than is perceived 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 51 minutes ago, sidcow said: Why do illegal immigrants risk their lives to cross the Channel and get to the UK. They've reached the security of The West and safety. Why risk death to make it here? Is it literally our Welfare State or are there deeper reasons? Language is the main reason. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted October 27, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted October 27, 2021 1 minute ago, HanoiVillan said: Language is the main reason. Really, put yourself through incredibly dangerous risk of death crossing just for the language? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 1 hour ago, sidcow said: Why do illegal immigrants risk their lives to cross the Channel and get to the UK. They've reached the security of The West and safety. Why risk death to make it here? Is it literally our Welfare State or are there deeper reasons? As @HanoiVillan says, language but also a known ability to claim asylum in our country IMO. The majority of immigrants crossing the channel are attempting to flee war torn countries and the UK provides asylum on that basis. I have no idea about the rest of Europe (I'm assuming they have something similar), but then being able to communicate probably tips the scales in our favour. Imagine being so desperate for a new life that you'd risk going through all that, though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted October 27, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted October 27, 2021 2 minutes ago, bobzy said: As @HanoiVillan says, language but also a known ability to claim asylum in our country IMO. The majority of immigrants crossing the channel are attempting to flee war torn countries and the UK provides asylum on that basis. I have no idea about the rest of Europe (I'm assuming they have something similar), but then being able to communicate probably tips the scales in our favour. Imagine being so desperate for a new life that you'd risk going through all that, though. Kind of why I asked the question. You're desperate to live in a safe place. You've made it there but then risk death to get to another safe place. I can't imagine what drives people to jump in that freezing sea in a dinghy when you're already safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 1 minute ago, sidcow said: Kind of why I asked the question. You're desperate to live in a safe place. You've made it there but then risk death to get to another safe place. I can't imagine what drives people to jump in that freezing sea in a dinghy when you're already safe. But it's only those particular immigrants rather than absolutely every immigrant. If you've made a plan to get the UK and that's what you're going for, why would you stop somewhere else that doesn't offer the same potential life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted October 27, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted October 27, 2021 1 minute ago, bobzy said: But it's only those particular immigrants rather than absolutely every immigrant. If you've made a plan to get the UK and that's what you're going for, why would you stop somewhere else that doesn't offer the same potential life? Which brings be back to my original question! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 2 minutes ago, sidcow said: Which brings be back to my original question! Read the first part then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 8 minutes ago, bobzy said: As @HanoiVillan says, language but also a known ability to claim asylum in our country IMO. The majority of immigrants crossing the channel are attempting to flee war torn countries and the UK provides asylum on that basis. I have no idea about the rest of Europe (I'm assuming they have something similar), but then being able to communicate probably tips the scales in our favour. Imagine being so desperate for a new life that you'd risk going through all that, though. thats why im guessing syrians have preferred to settle in germany, there's an established large turkish population here so there is a closer connection culturally here than there is in the UK there are more turks, iraqis, afghans, iranians and kazakstanis in germany than there are in the UK so they will naturally feel more comfortable here i would lazily guess that north africans in france is the same, central africans in belgium but then that goes back to my earlier comment about the misconception that immigrants favour the UK over the rest of europe, i dont think they do, thats a narrative driven by the right 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 2 minutes ago, villa4europe said: thats why im guessing syrians have preferred to settle in germany, there's an established large turkish population here so there is a closer connection culturally here than there is in the UK there are more turks, iraqis, afghans, iranians and kazakstanis in germany than there are in the UK so they will naturally feel more comfortable here i would lazily guess that north africans in france is the same, central africans in belgium but then that goes back to my earlier comment about the misconception that immigrants favour the UK over the rest of europe, i dont think they do, thats a narrative driven by the right I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the majority of known migrant crossings were made by Iranians and Iraqis. By an absolute mile, as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 It certainly isn't for the welfare. We give aslum seekers somewhere to live, and £39.63 per week. That's a fairly middle of the table payment across the EU. We also restrict them from working which isn't the case in all european countries, and once they are granted asylum, our unemployment benefits are fairly unremarkable as well. Language or family connections are likely to be the main reason for people to be desperate to get here. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, sidcow said: Why do illegal immigrants risk their lives to cross the Channel and get to the UK. They've reached the security of The West and safety. Why risk death to make it here? Is it literally our Welfare State or are there deeper reasons? I don't' suppose anyone ever woke up ,looked at a world map , pointed to France and thought , one day I'll aspire to live there from experience , when you actually visit these countries , you tend to find they've learnt about the Uk during their schooling , they've been taught English ..the off shot of that is the people sort of "admire" the Uk and the way of life , they might not be taught about the way of life in other European counties in quite the same way. I can't speak for every person out in those regions , but on my travels the ones I've met when they find out you are English they want to engage ,chat and share tea with you , believe it or not they ask about the free health care , what car you drive , how many bedrooms in your house ... and then tell you how they can't see a doctor or they hope one day to aspire to a decent job and not sharing a room with their 3 sisters and parents ... In their eyes we are all millionaires so the UK is a kind of aspiration for some of them .We may think our govt is shit and England is shit (Wales and Scotland are excluded as they are wonderful ) but we are viewing it differently from them . Stuff that you and I take for granted is stuff they can only dream about in some instances .. Yes , in relation to their way of life , you could say the same about all the European countries , but I don't suppose they grew up learning about Lithuania , Hungary even Spain ... it would be like someone escaping from Newcastle , no way you're going to settle on Yorkshire or Northampton when the promised land of Surrey is just a little further on Edited October 27, 2021 by tonyh29 Edit . added stuff that i'd somehow deleted 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 27, 2021 Moderator Share Posted October 27, 2021 4 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: it would be like someone escaping from Newcastle , no way you're going to settle on Yorkshire or Northampton when the promised land of Surrey is just a little further on You were doing so well until the final analogy vs I think most of them would be staying put to be honest 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post villa4europe Posted October 27, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted October 27, 2021 22 minutes ago, bobzy said: I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the majority of known migrant crossings were made by Iranians and Iraqis. By an absolute mile, as well. you can find the stats online iraqis claiming asylum in UK in 2020 was 2578, compared to 7074 who claimed asylum in Germany Iran was 4627 vs 1444 afghanistan was 1465 vs 12505 syria was 1168 vs 36108 maybe the most surprising one for me was nigeria was 850 vs 1770, twice as many nigerians claim asylum in germany than the UK in total its 32423 vs 85230 - i know its not what the original post suggested but i do think there is the general belief in the UK that immigrants are picking the UK over other european countries and its simply not true, there are more syrians claiming asylum in germany than all the asylum seekers added together in the UK 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 1 hour ago, villa4europe said: i know its not what the original post suggested but i do think there is the general belief in the UK that immigrants are picking the UK over other european countries and its simply not true, there are more syrians claiming asylum in germany than all the asylum seekers added together in the UK Yes, the original post suffered a lot from 'availability bias'. In fact, the proportion of migrants who do actually go to the potentially lethal trouble of trying to get to the UK is a very small proportion of the whole (and while Germany takes many more than the UK, compare the German number to how many are in Turkey or Lebanon). Consequently, those who are taking that risk are largely those who have a clear and specific reason for doing so. Language and family connections are the key ones, language above all as English is by far the most widely spoken second language in the world. There is also, in my experience of teaching English to French muslims of north African ancestry, an understandable perception among this group that the UK is more tolerant to muslims than mainland Europe, especially France, and it may well be that is somewhat of a motivating factor for some as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 2 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: Language is the main reason. I dont think this is the main reason because.I play table tennis and there are over 8 Chinese players that cant speak English yet they are living in Perth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 7 minutes ago, PussEKatt said: I dont think this is the main reason because.I play table tennis and there are over 8 Chinese players that cant speak English yet they are living in Perth. That isn't really anything to do with what I wrote though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 What I meant is that Australia is an English speaking country yet these Chinese come here to live but still dont know the language after years of residence,so they are not here because of the language,because they are ignoring it.Wierd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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