DCJonah Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 If a manager doesn't matter why support or defend Lambert with valid reasons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 If we had a top class CEO and Director of football then i guess we could get away with just a coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Some incredibly insightful posts the last few. You guys have really considered all aspects of the thought process. You've claimed a manager doesn't really matter. Not sure you can have a go at others. Again with the binary thinking. I've agreed with OutByEaster who said that managers are fairly inconsequential when compared to the money which is spent on the team. This is almost universally true as evidenced by what clubs have been successful recently. No one's saying that managers don't matter. Of course they do, but nowhere near as much as people seem to think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM3000 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Some incredibly insightful posts the last few. You guys have really considered all aspects of the thought process. Well I didn't want to break from the standard that was being set. More shots being fired in this thread than we have managed all season. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSmith22 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I've avoided VT like the plague for the last month or so. It's becoming ever more apparent that results are continuing on the same course as the last 2 seasons. Even with an improved roster things are not clicking offensively. I'm at the point now that it's probably better to move now rather than later. Maybe Moyes is holding out for another opportunity in the prem instead of accepting the Inter or Sociedad positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Managers don't matter much, load of bull. So Chelsea could win the title with a manager from the lower leagues! And how come pulis turned Palace around. I also believe if Arsenal had the likes of Mourinio they would start winning trophy's again 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DCJonah Posted October 31, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted October 31, 2014 Some incredibly insightful posts the last few. You guys have really considered all aspects of the thought process.You've claimed a manager doesn't really matter. Not sure you can have a go at others. Again with the binary thinking. I've agreed with OutByEaster who said that managers are fairly inconsequential when compared to the money which is spent on the team. This is almost universally true as evidenced by what clubs have been successful recently. No one's saying that managers don't matter. Of course they do, but nowhere near as much as people seem to think. The original post said the influence of success was 90% owner and 10% of the manager. You said that was bang on. What evidence shows this is universally true? If it was that much towards the owner then the big teams wouldn't bother getting the best managers would they? And how would managers like mourinho prove themselves? What he did with Porto, was that 10% him and the rest the owner? Has what everton done been 90% down to kenwright? When Wenger revolutionised arsenal was that 90% down to the owner? Nothing to do with binary thinking, I just don't see any evidence to suggest that a clubs success is 90% down to an owner. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 I agree with this. Clearly it's a mixture of the owner and the manager. Sadly for us we've got a crap one of both even if their intentions are honourable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Curtis Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 It could be right about success being due to the owner. Lerner rarely goes to a Villa game. We are crap. QED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danceoftheshamen Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 For me it's clear that time is just about up now for Lambert, the only thing which would change my mind is if we beat Spurs and go on a decent run and then in January he sorts out the creative issue. All things which will surely not happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 The single biggest influence a manager can have at a football club IMO, is transfer policy. Player trading can not only make or break a season, but can affect a club for many years (for better or worse) That's why I continue to support Lambert for the time being, because whatever blame is attached to him and Lerner for how things are today, the biggest reason we are where we are is the transfer policy of the three previous managers. They killed us with the signings they made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 The single biggest influence a manager can have at a football club IMO, is transfer policy.Is that really true? I would have thought the main influence a manager has is how the squad plays week in week out. On that basis, it's really very hard to support Lambo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 The single biggest influence a manager can have at a football club IMO, is transfer policy.Is that really true? I would have thought the main influence a manager has is how the squad plays week in week out. On that basis, it's really very hard to support Lambo. Guys are you just looking for the last excuse for Lambert, because he has run out of them. The managers job is 80% vs owner at least for me. Only the manager can install the confidence, motivation, graft and coaching to the players. How do we think Bradford, Orient, QPR beat us. It wasn't about the owner, it was manager motivation. Unless you think Bradford have a better more expensive team than us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 I think it's the biggest in isolation yes and for me it has the most influence overall. When you are a mid table club, with an income and budget similar to most others in the league, a good transfer policy is the only way you can hope to bridge the gap to the elite or consistently out perform those around you. Don't get me wrong, playing style, tactics, coaching etc are all vital, but if you only ever sign players at the peak of their value/career you will always struggle overtime to make any real progress. Take every transfer in and out since the day MON walked in the door and compare it with the transfers at Everton and Spurs during the same period. That is why we are where we are and they are where they are IMO. The money spent by MON, GH and even AM to a lesser extent could have set us up for years IMO, but the majority was wasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 The single biggest influence a manager can have at a football club IMO, is transfer policy. Player trading can not only make or break a season, but can affect a club for many years (for better or worse) That's why I continue to support Lambert for the time being, because whatever blame is attached to him and Lerner for how things are today, the biggest reason we are where we are is the transfer policy of the three previous managers. They killed us with the signings they made. Bruce seemed to have no problem getting Bent scoring regularly and Martinez got great performances out of N'Zogbia. What hasn't helped is two negative managers (McLeish and Lambert) not playing to the strengths of some of our most expensive signings. 4 goals scored all season (even including our game where we lost to Leyton Orient!) and 9 hours without scoring tells me Lambert hasn't got a clue how to get this team attacking consistently well and utilising the talent we have in the squad to its maximum. Lambert out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Agree that previous managers have not done well on transfers. I'm not sure why that excuses Lambert for 2 years of poor football and results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 The single biggest influence a manager can have at a football club IMO, is transfer policy. Is that really true? I would have thought the main influence a manager has is how the squad plays week in week out. On that basis, it's really very hard to support Lambo. Guys are you just looking for the last excuse for Lambert, because he has run out of them. The managers job is 80% vs owner at least for me. Only the manager can install the confidence, motivation, graft and coaching to the players. How do we think Bradford, Orient, QPR beat us. It wasn't about the owner, it was manager motivation. Unless you think Bradford have a better more expensive team than us. I don't think it's about looking for an excuse necessarily. I'm not looking to defend Lambert, just giving an opinion on what the most important factor is for success over time for a club like us. The money spent invested by RL in the first 4/5 years especially, should not see us in the position we are now. It was largely wasted by a succession managers who all played different style and had different tactics. There will always be freak results and freak seasons, but if you want to be 'up there' consistently in the modern game, then success in he transfer market is absolutely vital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 It could be right about success being due to the owner. Lerner rarely goes to a Villa game. We are crap. QED. How often did Bendall go to a vIlla game....when we was winning the title. think we are looking for irrelevancies when there are much more tangible things to be getting on with. Most of the successful managers of the past would have been highly delighted to have the owner.... well out of the way I can see them now saying .....that would be bloody heaven. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 The single biggest influence a manager can have at a football club IMO, is transfer policy. Player trading can not only make or break a season, but can affect a club for many years (for better or worse) That's why I continue to support Lambert for the time being, because whatever blame is attached to him and Lerner for how things are today, the biggest reason we are where we are is the transfer policy of the three previous managers. They killed us with the signings they made. Bruce seemed to have no problem getting Bent scoring regularly and Martinez got great performances out of N'Zogbia. What hasn't helped is two negative managers (McLeish and Lambert) not playing to the strengths of some of our most expensive signings. 4 goals scored all season (even including our game where we lost to Leyton Orient!) and 9 hours without scoring tells me Lambert hasn't got a clue how to get this team attacking consistently well and utilising the talent we have in the squad to its maximum. Lambert out. You are right about those two, but what we went and did was buy both of them at the absolute peak of their value, with no hope of ever recouping what we paid, let alone flipping them for a profit. And that's my point overall. You need to sign players for the here and now, but you also have to have an eye on the long term and be able to make a profit on a good number of players, in order to keep reinvesting and pushing on. Again in I am not defending Lambert per say, but for me it is the single biggest reason why we are struggling and why we now spend less than pretty much everyone except Burnley, which will make it difficult for any manager to be successful over time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 I think it's the biggest in isolation yes and for me it has the most influence overall. When you are a mid table club, with an income and budget similar to most others in the league, a good transfer policy is the only way you can hope to bridge the gap to the elite or consistently out perform those around you. Don't get me wrong, playing style, tactics, coaching etc are all vital, but if you only ever sign players at the peak of their value/career you will always struggle overtime to make any real progress. Take every transfer in and out since the day MON walked in the door and compare it with the transfers at Everton and Spurs during the same period. That is why we are where we are and they are where they are IMO. The money spent by MON, GH and even AM to a lesser extent could have set us up for years IMO, but the majority was wasted. I think you make a very apt point.....and if I had to have a quick stab at our demise without going in to detail.....I would say we have failed in the transfer market over many seasons. I don't exclude that criticism from MON despite the 6-6-6 I think he had more wasted funds on players than most, but there again he had the most money at his disposal, to get one or two right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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