Pez1974 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 We must assume that people aren't that stupid, no matter how their actions look: Lambert will only walk if he has another job lined up (Celtic rumours abound) or he see's total decimation next season and isn't prepared to let his reputation suffer further. Wrapped up in this is the Karsa/culvershouse issue perhaps? Randy wants out, but for a fee. He must know that entering the season without a manager and a weak team will only drive the price down. Conversely, a quick sale could result in a higher price as the new owner can start afresh in time for the new season. Telling the world you want to sell something is a calculated action - it could lead to an auction, driving the price up; or it could be a sign of desparation, driving the price down. It is my opinion, that on the balance of probabilities, the rumours of a relatively quick sale are more likely to be true than the more pessimistic ones, as it would justify Randy's actions from his perspective. I suspect that Lambert knows a lot more than us, and may know that a new owner will want him out and he will only get 1 years wages. If he is to walk, it is therefore more likely that he thinks he can get another job pretty much straight away with a longer deal. Faulkner is just a club employee, so will do as he is told. I am not ITK, but assuming everyone involved will act with a degree of common sense - these are my guesses! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 We must assume that people aren't that stupid, no matter how their actions look: Lambert will only walk if he has another job lined up (Celtic rumours abound) or he see's total decimation next season and isn't prepared to let his reputation suffer further. Wrapped up in this is the Karsa/culvershouse issue perhaps? Randy wants out, but for a fee. He must know that entering the season without a manager and a weak team will only drive the price down. Conversely, a quick sale could result in a higher price as the new owner can start afresh in time for the new season. Telling the world you want to sell something is a calculated action - it could lead to an auction, driving the price up; or it could be a sign of desparation, driving the price down. Yes - but weve been starring down the relegation Barrell in a couple of Jan windows - and Lerners has provided nothing to protect his investment. What I really fear and I sense we are moving towards is that Lerner has to appoint another manager whilst we are still up for sale. Or he could promote Sid and Shay. - We really aren't in a good place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 We must assume that people aren't that stupid, no matter how their actions look: Lambert will only walk if he has another job lined up (Celtic rumours abound) or he see's total decimation next season and isn't prepared to let his reputation suffer further. Wrapped up in this is the Karsa/culvershouse issue perhaps? Randy wants out, but for a fee. He must know that entering the season without a manager and a weak team will only drive the price down. Conversely, a quick sale could result in a higher price as the new owner can start afresh in time for the new season. Telling the world you want to sell something is a calculated action - it could lead to an auction, driving the price up; or it could be a sign of desparation, driving the price down. Yes - but weve been starring down the relegation Barrell in a couple of Jan windows - and Lerners has provided nothing to protect his investment. What I really fear and I sense we are moving towards is that Lerner has to appoint another manager whilst we are still up for sale. Or he could promote Sid and Shay. - We really aren't in a good place. I know uncertainty lends itself to concern but seriously dude, the season didn't even finish one week ago and the formal announcement of being up for sale is even more recent, perhaps best to just see what happens over the next 2-4 weeks rather than winding yourself, and others up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 We must assume that people aren't that stupid, no matter how their actions look: Lambert will only walk if he has another job lined up (Celtic rumours abound) or he see's total decimation next season and isn't prepared to let his reputation suffer further. Wrapped up in this is the Karsa/culvershouse issue perhaps? Randy wants out, but for a fee. He must know that entering the season without a manager and a weak team will only drive the price down. Conversely, a quick sale could result in a higher price as the new owner can start afresh in time for the new season. Telling the world you want to sell something is a calculated action - it could lead to an auction, driving the price up; or it could be a sign of desparation, driving the price down. It is my opinion, that on the balance of probabilities, the rumours of a relatively quick sale are more likely to be true than the more pessimistic ones, as it would justify Randy's actions from his perspective. I suspect that Lambert knows a lot more than us, and may know that a new owner will want him out and he will only get 1 years wages. If he is to walk, it is therefore more likely that he thinks he can get another job pretty much straight away with a longer deal. Faulkner is just a club employee, so will do as he is told. I am not ITK, but assuming everyone involved will act with a degree of common sense - these are my guesses! Good reasoning, based on a rational model of behaviour for Mr Lerner. But remember this is the man who appointed Alex McLeish to the general bemusement and disbelief of an onlooking world, so we can't necessarily assume this is all progressing in a rational way. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TezzRexx Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 We must assume that people aren't that stupid, no matter how their actions look: Lambert will only walk if he has another job lined up (Celtic rumours abound) or he see's total decimation next season and isn't prepared to let his reputation suffer further. Wrapped up in this is the Karsa/culvershouse issue perhaps? Randy wants out, but for a fee. He must know that entering the season without a manager and a weak team will only drive the price down. Conversely, a quick sale could result in a higher price as the new owner can start afresh in time for the new season. Telling the world you want to sell something is a calculated action - it could lead to an auction, driving the price up; or it could be a sign of desparation, driving the price down. It is my opinion, that on the balance of probabilities, the rumours of a relatively quick sale are more likely to be true than the more pessimistic ones, as it would justify Randy's actions from his perspective. I suspect that Lambert knows a lot more than us, and may know that a new owner will want him out and he will only get 1 years wages. If he is to walk, it is therefore more likely that he thinks he can get another job pretty much straight away with a longer deal. Faulkner is just a club employee, so will do as he is told. I am not ITK, but assuming everyone involved will act with a degree of common sense - these are my guesses! Good reasoning, based on a rational model of behaviour for Mr Lerner. But remember this is the man who appointed Alex McLeish to the general bemusement and disbelief of an onlooking world, so we can't necessarily assume this is all progressing in a rational way. That's initially what I thought but Randy is a businessman first so I would put my money on him being more competent to sell something, than appoint a football manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa-revolution Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 We must assume that people aren't that stupid, no matter how their actions look: Lambert will only walk if he has another job lined up (Celtic rumours abound) or he see's total decimation next season and isn't prepared to let his reputation suffer further. Wrapped up in this is the Karsa/culvershouse issue perhaps? Randy wants out, but for a fee. He must know that entering the season without a manager and a weak team will only drive the price down. Conversely, a quick sale could result in a higher price as the new owner can start afresh in time for the new season. Telling the world you want to sell something is a calculated action - it could lead to an auction, driving the price up; or it could be a sign of desparation, driving the price down. Yes - but weve been starring down the relegation Barrell in a couple of Jan windows - and Lerners has provided nothing to protect his investment. What I really fear and I sense we are moving towards is that Lerner has to appoint another manager whilst we are still up for sale. Or he could promote Sid and Shay. - We really aren't in a good place. All possibilities being covered then Lambert's short term demise would surely result in just that, immediate internal promotion of Cowans & Given. In a worst case scenario of no take over & limited funds being made available then I would have every sympathy for whom ever was in the managerial hot seat but I truly hope Lambert remains in such circumstances because he has brought Vlaar, Benteke, Okore & Kozak into the Club & he is currently the best person to assess our needs going forward. I just hope this situation doesn't drag on unresolved for weeks/months on end as it will totally destabilise the whole club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggy Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 He also brought in Luna, Bennett, Tonev, Helenius, Sylla, Bowery, Lowton and Holt. Kozak has been average while Okore seems to have been judged as a good player without anyone really seeing him playing enough. Probably by the same posters who give off stink to other posters who in their opinion criticise new players prematurely. Lambert is probably the worst person to assess our needs after two seasons of absolute shite on the pitch and turmoil off it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted May 15, 2014 Moderator Share Posted May 15, 2014 ...Kozak has been average while Okore seems to have been judged as a good player without anyone really seeing him playing enough. Probably by the same posters who give off stink to other posters who in their opinion criticise new players prematurely... Question - how many times would you need to see (say) Paul Mcgrath play, before you noticed "actually he's bloody brilliant". I'm not saying Okore is in the same class, very very few were or are, but sometimes you can just tell, surely? it's harder withduff signings, as some come good after a time to settle - Bouma, for example. For me Okore looked classy, Kozak terrible, if I'm honest. Now I don't ever "give off stink" to people who hold a different view, and most people don't. So what I'm saying is if you take people at face value, and their views the same, there's less need to seemingly put other motives onot people who hold different views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 ...Kozak has been average while Okore seems to have been judged as a good player without anyone really seeing him playing enough. Probably by the same posters who give off stink to other posters who in their opinion criticise new players prematurely... Question - how many times would you need to see (say) Paul Mcgrath play, before you noticed "actually he's bloody brilliant". I'm not saying Okore is in the same class, very very few were or are, but sometimes you can just tell, surely? it's harder withduff signings, as some come good after a time to settle - Bouma, for example. For me Okore looked classy, Kozak terrible, if I'm honest. Now I don't ever "give off stink" to people who hold a different view, and most people don't. So what I'm saying is if you take people at face value, and their views the same, there's less need to seemingly put other motives onot people who hold different views. Agree with some of that, as certain players are obviously very easy to brand exceptional talents in 20 minutes. Cristiano Ronaldo comes to mind when he debuted against Bolton all those years ago, Eden Hazard after a few games, Wayne Rooney, Ross Barkley at the start of this season when I started paying attention to him and so on. It's also easy to see who is never going to make it, like Brett Holman and his 9th division rapist touch. However, putting Okore in the former category is futile. He has played in the Danish division where he has never been matched with top players, he played for Nordsjælland in the Champions League where they let in 22 goals in six games and he played a few minutes for us before he got injured. He looked ok, it looked like he could manage the level - but it's not like he shut the shop and performed wonderfully in those games. Does he have the ability to become better than Baker and Clark? Certainly. But to mention anything else right now is pointless, nobody here knows how good he is and the most important thing is to get over this injury. MANY players struggle to become half the player they could have been after such an injury, especially when it happens at the stage in your career where you are still developing. I do have high hopes for him though, I sincerely wish he will rehabilitate and become a solid defender in the Premier League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samjp26 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 (edited) Why do people always assume that others aren't basing their opinions of Okore on what they saw before he joined us? Edited May 15, 2014 by samjp26 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa-revolution Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 ...Kozak has been average while Okore seems to have been judged as a good player without anyone really seeing him playing enough. Probably by the same posters who give off stink to other posters who in their opinion criticise new players prematurely... Question - how many times would you need to see (say) Paul Mcgrath play, before you noticed "actually he's bloody brilliant". I'm not saying Okore is in the same class, very very few were or are, but sometimes you can just tell, surely? it's harder withduff signings, as some come good after a time to settle - Bouma, for example. For me Okore looked classy, Kozak terrible, if I'm honest. Now I don't ever "give off stink" to people who hold a different view, and most people don't. So what I'm saying is if you take people at face value, and their views the same, there's less need to seemingly put other motives onot people who hold different views. Agree with some of that, as certain players are obviously very easy to brand exceptional talents in 20 minutes. Cristiano Ronaldo comes to mind when he debuted against Bolton all those years ago, Eden Hazard after a few games, Wayne Rooney, Ross Barkley at the start of this season when I started paying attention to him and so on. It's also easy to see who is never going to make it, like Brett Holman and his 9th division rapist touch. However, putting Okore in the former category is futile. He has played in the Danish division where he has never been matched with top players, he played for Nordsjælland in the Champions League where they let in 22 goals in six games and he played a few minutes for us before he got injured. He looked ok, it looked like he could manage the level - but it's not like he shut the shop and performed wonderfully in those games. Does he have the ability to become better than Baker and Clark? Certainly. But to mention anything else right now is pointless, nobody here knows how good he is and the most important thing is to get over this injury. MANY players struggle to become half the player they could have been after such an injury, especially when it happens at the stage in your career where you are still developing. I do have high hopes for him though, I sincerely wish he will rehabilitate and become a solid defender in the Premier League. One of Okore's biggest assets is his ability to play out from the back. When you have a player like Nathan Baker filling in what option do you have other than telling him to hoof it? How many times has he been guilty of misplaced passes & conceding possession through poor concentration & judgement last season? The evolution of Lambert's passing game has suffered largely because of Okore's absence. Okore has a wonderful passing range & is totally comfortable on the ball. This is why I wished other Villa fans here on VT would go a little bit easier in apportioning blame on Paul Lambert not just in his results but in what I believe to be a necessary playing style due to circumstance. Paradoxically I believe they should be praising Lambo for his adaptability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Would be happy if Lambert was sacked now and IMO there is no point waiting for a new owner. At least once he is gone he won't be able to damage the club anymore. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samjp26 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Would be happy if Lambert was sacked now and IMO there is no point waiting for a new owner. At least once he is gone he won't be able to damage the club anymore. What if a new owner doesn't come? We just carry on without a manager? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amo69 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Normally when a manager get sacked the coach becomes caretaker manager. We haven't got any coaches! What a shambles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 (edited) Would be happy if Lambert was sacked now and IMO there is no point waiting for a new owner. At least once he is gone he won't be able to damage the club anymore. What if a new owner doesn't come? We just carry on without a manager? Can't do much worse than we have under Lambo! Or appoint an interim manager. Anyone but Lambert! Edited May 15, 2014 by Brumstopdogs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amo69 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Would be happy if Lambert was sacked now and IMO there is no point waiting for a new owner. At least once he is gone he won't be able to damage the club anymore. What if a new owner doesn't come? We just carry on without a manager? Can't do much worse than we have under Lambo! Or appoint an interim manager. Anyone but Lambert! I'm no fan of Lambert but we can do worse by getting relegated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 (edited) We can also do a lot better! If we stick with Lambert the direction he could well take us is down anyway. Edited May 15, 2014 by Brumstopdogs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendi Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Lambert has to go no matter what. He show his true colour in today meeting with Randy Lerner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 If this club was run with any competence, Lambert would be gone by now and we would have some serious offers on the table for the Villa. Unfortunately it isn't, I can see the whole situation drifting for the first half of the summer break. If by the middle of June he is still here and the club is not in the process of being sold, I will start to get worried. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Would be happy if Lambert was sacked now and IMO there is no point waiting for a new owner. At least once he is gone he won't be able to damage the club anymore. What if a new owner doesn't come? We just carry on without a manager? I would back Sid to get better results out of Lambert's players than Lambert himself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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