villa-revolution Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I have to laugh at the majority of posters naivety here. The revelations coming out of Villa park. Is any body really truly, truly shocked? The same as when the two Baggies players had a bust up a couple of weeks ago. This is the reality of the professional football industry. It goes on behind the scenes at every single club. In the midst of a relegation battle passions run high, things get said & matters get out of control. In reality it's just human nature. Ultimately too, it is all positive, because every thing is now out in the open, so hopefully we can all rally round & all move on. There is nothing positive about Culverhouse/Karsa doing a lousy bullying job of carrying out Lambert's instructions. There is nothing positive about Lambert failing to realise that his staff were out of order. It's not human nature, it's gross incompetence! We will all be behind the team on saturday against Southampton, but your assumption that VT posters are naive is wrong. We are all intelligent human beings with our own opinions, and if you think that what has been happening at Villa behind the scenes is normal then I would say you are in a very small minority. Please read my post again - I clearly state not just at Villa park but at all football clubs. If you disagree with me fine. That is your prerogative but I do believe in this instance you are underlining my point about being naive. Also, the things you say are not positive have now been addressed, so that is my point & that clearly therefore is a positive. Are you shocked by today's events? Is any body shocked by today's events? It's life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post briny_ear Posted April 16, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted April 16, 2014 I think maybe what is "naive" is to constantly churn out post after post rather imperiously pronouncing that all is well with the club and that Lambert is the man of the future, while bemoaning the failure of the fans to grasp these self-evident "truths". Thus ignoring the chaos that has been going on - with increasing intensity - at Villa this season 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 (edited) Lambert lieutenants Culverhouse and Karsa were suspended after heated dressing room exchange after Villa's loss to Palace Aston Villa have suspended assistant manager Ian Culverhouse and head of footballing operations Gary Karsa, pending an internal investigation The duo came from Norwich with manager Paul Lambert in 2012 The move reportedly came after a heated dressing room exchange Former Villa star Gordon Cowans and out of favour keeper Shay Given have been temporarily promoted to Lambert's first-team coaching staff The atmosphere at Bodymoor Heath has been described as 'poisonous' Despite unrest, Lambert's position is not believed to be under threat Paul Lambert took the astonishing step of ending his six-year association with trusted aide Ian Culverhouse on Tuesday after a complete breakdown in the pair’s relationship. Aston Villa confirmed that assistant manager Culverhouse and head of footballing operations Gary Karsa had been relieved of their duties pending an internal investigation. Sportsmail understands the move by Lambert came after a heated exchange in the dressing room following Saturday’s defeat at Crystal Palace. +6 +6 Suspended: Ian Culverhouse (left) and Gary Karsa have been suspended pending an investigation Aston Villa +6 Showdown: Aston Villa chief executive Paul Faulkner (right) met with Paul Lambert at the training ground More... Lambert lieutenants Culverhouse and Karsa suspended as Villa chief Faulkner launches internal investigation Lambert's future uncertain as Villa chief Faulkner heads for summit talks with under-fire boss Villa chief exec Faulkner wants united front with Lambert's men in relegation trouble Lambert pleads with Villa fans after 'You don't know what you're doing' chants 'We need one more win for survival', insists Villa boss Lambert after Palace defeat Crystal Palace 1-0 Aston Villa: Puncheon takes Eagles a giant step closer to survival Lambert’s working relationship with Culverhouse is said to have deteriorated so much that the pair have hardly spoken in recent weeks, causing disruption to Villa’s preparation for games. The atmosphere at the club’s Bodymoor Heath training ground has been described as ‘poisonous’ and Culverhouse is said to have fallen out with other members of the backroom team and senior players. Karsa is also said to have had a turbulent relationship with members of staff at Villa and the pair were suspended by chief executive Paul Faulkner after Lambert decided the make-up of his coaching team was no longer fit for purpose. Despite the club’s official statement indicating the pair have only been suspended, it is understood Culverhouse and Karsa have no future at the club. Lambert’s position is believed not to be under threat. +6 Under pressure: Lambert's Aston Villa side have lost seven out of their past 10 Premier League matches Lambert and Culverhouse first joined forces at Colchester in 2008, before leaving for Norwich City in 2009 and steering the Canaries into the top flight. Their success persuaded Villa owner Randy Lerner to appoint them after sacking Alex McLeish in 2012. Villa have promoted former player and crowd favourite Gordon Cowans, 55, and goalkeeper Shay Given, 37, to assist Lambert while the club carry out their investigation. Lambert said: ‘I’m delighted to have Gordon and Shay to assist me in preparing the team for Saturday (against Southampton), which is what the whole group is focused on.’ The breakdown in relations between Lambert and Culverhouse has coincided with a dreadful run for the club that has seen them slip closer to the relegation zone. +6 Lots to think about: Villa lost their fourth Premier League game on the spin at Crystal Palace on Saturday The Midlands club have picked up just seven points from a possible 30 and are currently on a run of four defeats. Cowans said: ‘The manager has asked me to step up to assist him at this time and I’ll do my utmost for the club and the manager in helping prepare the team for Saturday’s game.’ Given added: ‘As players, it’s important that each and every one of us take responsibility right now and I’m delighted to play my part in helping the manager and the team go and try to win on Saturday.’ +6 Walking into trrouble? Fans have turned on Lambert, increasing the chances he could be leaving http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2605594/Lambert-lieutenants-Culverhouse-Karsa-suspended-heated-dressing-room-exchange-Villas-loss-Palace.html Edited April 16, 2014 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabromsgrove Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I have to laugh at the majority of posters naivety here. The revelations coming out of Villa park. Is any body really truly, truly shocked? The same as when the two Baggies players had a bust up a couple of weeks ago. This is the reality of the professional football industry. It goes on behind the scenes at every single club. In the midst of a relegation battle passions run high, things get said & matters get out of control. In reality it's just human nature. Ultimately too, it is all positive, because every thing is now out in the open, so hopefully we can all rally round & all move on. There is nothing positive about Culverhouse/Karsa doing a lousy bullying job of carrying out Lambert's instructions. There is nothing positive about Lambert failing to realise that his staff were out of order. It's not human nature, it's gross incompetence! We will all be behind the team on saturday against Southampton, but your assumption that VT posters are naive is wrong. We are all intelligent human beings with our own opinions, and if you think that what has been happening at Villa behind the scenes is normal then I would say you are in a very small minority. Please read my post again - I clearly state not just at Villa park but at all football clubs. If you disagree with me fine. That is your prerogative but I do believe in this instance you are underlining my point about being naive. Also, the things you say are not positive have now been addressed, so that is my point & that clearly therefore is a positive. Are you shocked by today's events? Is any body shocked by today's events? It's life! Do you really think that todays club statement has fully addressed Villa's management and coaching deficiencies? If you do then I'm sad to say that it"s you who may be naive. One press release from AVFC does not resolve a problem that has been brewing for a number of years. It's not "life," it's a loss of professional control which is unacceptable in a multi million pound business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa-revolution Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I think maybe what is "naive" is to constantly churn out post after post rather imperiously pronouncing that all is well with the club and that Lambert is the man of the future, while bemoaning the failure of the fans to grasp these self-evident "truths". Thus ignoring the chaos that has been going on - with increasing intensity - at Villa this season I like this briny_ear because I may or may not be accused of double standards here dependent upon the denouement vis a vis Paul Lambert. It won't be me who pulls the trigger though as I am not that naive & only time will tell. However it plays out though I won't be shocked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa-revolution Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I have to laugh at the majority of posters naivety here. The revelations coming out of Villa park. Is any body really truly, truly shocked? The same as when the two Baggies players had a bust up a couple of weeks ago. This is the reality of the professional football industry. It goes on behind the scenes at every single club. In the midst of a relegation battle passions run high, things get said & matters get out of control. In reality it's just human nature. Ultimately too, it is all positive, because every thing is now out in the open, so hopefully we can all rally round & all move on. There is nothing positive about Culverhouse/Karsa doing a lousy bullying job of carrying out Lambert's instructions. There is nothing positive about Lambert failing to realise that his staff were out of order. It's not human nature, it's gross incompetence! We will all be behind the team on saturday against Southampton, but your assumption that VT posters are naive is wrong. We are all intelligent human beings with our own opinions, and if you think that what has been happening at Villa behind the scenes is normal then I would say you are in a very small minority. Please read my post again - I clearly state not just at Villa park but at all football clubs. If you disagree with me fine. That is your prerogative but I do believe in this instance you are underlining my point about being naive. Also, the things you say are not positive have now been addressed, so that is my point & that clearly therefore is a positive. Are you shocked by today's events? Is any body shocked by today's events? It's life! Do you really think that todays club statement has fully addressed Villa's management and coaching deficiencies? If you do then I'm sad to say that it"s you who may be naive. One press release from AVFC does not resolve a problem that has been brewing for a number of years. It's not "life," it's a loss of professional control which is unacceptable in a multi million pound business. Perhaps we're both naive about being naive! It won't be long now before some other sordid affair is splashed across the red top papers in another multi million pound business. It happens every day in every industry. It get's covered up for a while & then it all explodes. There is nothing shocking about it. Nothing. & that is my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabromsgrove Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I have to laugh at the majority of posters naivety here. The revelations coming out of Villa park. Is any body really truly, truly shocked? The same as when the two Baggies players had a bust up a couple of weeks ago. This is the reality of the professional football industry. It goes on behind the scenes at every single club. In the midst of a relegation battle passions run high, things get said & matters get out of control. In reality it's just human nature. Ultimately too, it is all positive, because every thing is now out in the open, so hopefully we can all rally round & all move on. There is nothing positive about Culverhouse/Karsa doing a lousy bullying job of carrying out Lambert's instructions. There is nothing positive about Lambert failing to realise that his staff were out of order. It's not human nature, it's gross incompetence! We will all be behind the team on saturday against Southampton, but your assumption that VT posters are naive is wrong. We are all intelligent human beings with our own opinions, and if you think that what has been happening at Villa behind the scenes is normal then I would say you are in a very small minority. Please read my post again - I clearly state not just at Villa park but at all football clubs. If you disagree with me fine. That is your prerogative but I do believe in this instance you are underlining my point about being naive. Also, the things you say are not positive have now been addressed, so that is my point & that clearly therefore is a positive. Are you shocked by today's events? Is any body shocked by today's events? It's life! Do you really think that todays club statement has fully addressed Villa's management and coaching deficiencies? If you do then I'm sad to say that it"s you who may be naive. One press release from AVFC does not resolve a problem that has been brewing for a number of years. It's not "life," it's a loss of professional control which is unacceptable in a multi million pound business. Perhaps we're both naive about being naive! It won't be long now before some other sordid affair is splashed across the red top papers in another multi million pound business. It happens every day in every industry. It get's covered up for a while & then it all explodes. There is nothing shocking about it. Nothing. & that is my point. I thought we were discussing the problems that AVFC are experiencing with coaching and management. I now realise that you are referring to the state of the world in general. Has it not occurred to you that while your acceptance that the world is a pretty rotten place is valid, your assumption that this transcends our current Villa problems is perhaps irrelevant on this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 (edited) I have to laugh at the majority of posters naivety here. The revelations coming out of Villa park. Is any body really truly, truly shocked? The same as when the two Baggies players had a bust up a couple of weeks ago. This is the reality of the professional football industry. It goes on behind the scenes at every single club. In the midst of a relegation battle passions run high, things get said & matters get out of control. In reality it's just human nature. Ultimately too, it is all positive, because every thing is now out in the open, so hopefully we can all rally round & all move on.Ta. I wondered whither comical Ali had gone. Edited April 16, 2014 by snowychap 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 (edited) Will given be the first coach to make more than his manager in the premiership? Edited April 16, 2014 by P3te 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted April 16, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted April 16, 2014 Karsa is also said to have had a turbulent relationship with members of staff at Villa and the pair were suspended by chief executive Paul Faulkner after Lambert decided the make-up of his coaching team was no longer fit for purpose. While I'm not a huge fan of Lambert - this quote from the Daily Mail suggests that Lambert is the one making this call. Seeing as they are his staff, things can only have deteriorated fairly recently. You learn a lot about people when they are under stress and their methods are called into question - something that never surfaced during Norwich's rise under their stewardship. As such, kudos to Lambert for making the hard decision here - one that may help make a difference in keeping us up this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponky Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 So is that a net increase of 1 in the bomb squad with IC and GK in and Given coming back the other way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Maybe nothing was done, as the players were all too scared to say anything to Lambert, they might have thought he'd take the side of their coaches and drop them into the bomb squad. I also wonder if Lowton is one who has been bullied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nazvfc Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 **** me - all this judgement on lambert because of Culverhouse and Karsa and it must be poor because he chose them. If that's the case why did this not happen at Norwich or at Colchester? Maybe just maybe Trent (who I respect and has the utmost integrity) is correct - those two and only those two are culpable. They undermined Lambert. Norwich with due respect are not a 'big' club but they came to Villa and thought (and became too big for thier boots). When you have allegations you CANNOT just sack them without thorough investigation - you'd be taken to the cleaners otherwise. Maybe Lambert trusted those two and they betrayed his trust and this is the result. Sometimes managers are not aware of what his staff do - I bet if something like this (bullying etc) is going on at your place unless you make a complaint to your manager they won't know. Maybe the thought that if they complained to Lambert who is 'buddies' with those two then their complaints would be dismissed - and that is just MY opinion. Let's see from Saturday onwards - if there is an upturn and the team can then express themselves and perform like they can - why not give them (and Lambert a chance to turn things round). So for me I do not lay the blame on Lambert - then I'm a prat as many of you know. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted April 16, 2014 Moderator Share Posted April 16, 2014 Will given be the first coach to make more than his manager in the premiership? Not if Ryan Giggs has got anything to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalfTimePost Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 **** me - all this judgement on lambert because of Culverhouse and Karsa and it must be poor because he chose them. The rest of your post is right, you make some good points. And I'm actually a fan of Lambert.. But, yes, it does come down to them being his choice and yes it does reflect badly on him and his judgement. Fundamentally, he chose the people to run the team for him, supposedly he then proceeded to sit in his office and let them run all of the training sessions as our style of football got worse and worse and "allegedly" the people he signed to run the club for him bullied the players, physios, tea ladies and the kitchen sink. Of course it reflects poorly upon him. Not least of all for his poor decision making (also shown in three left backs in 4 windows, Helenius, Bowery and Tonev). But also his incompetence to not see it as it was happening, his inability to understand that whatever was going on at these training sessions, bullying or no bullying, was nowhere near working for the club and take action sooner (I'm not even specifically talking suspending Karsa and Culverhouse here, just turning up and taking a hands on approach). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Maybe nothing was done, as the players were all too scared to say anything to Lambert, they might have thought he'd take the side of their coaches and drop them into the bomb squad. I also wonder if Lowton is one who has been bullied. There's talk of Beavis and Butthead not being prepared to move to Birmingham. The same was said of Lowton. Maybe he highlighted the double standards and was disciplined for it, (This is only speculation I don't have a clue what's gone on.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfingers Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I agree with the sentiment that Lambert should be given the benefit of the doubt. The way some people are turning this around to criticise him is absolutely ridiculous. In the eyes of some people, Lambert can do no right. There was no right time to bomb these two out, be it last Christmas, now or at the end of the season & whenever this would have happened, Lambert would have got stick (not doing it sooner, not doing it later etc etc) Only those within the club know whats been happening and are qualified to judge when this pair should have gone. Lets be honest, its not a decision to be taken lightly, given the financial impact & the obvious unsettling aspect involved. Those that are anti-Lambert will never change-All I ask is we give him support in what is possibly his hour of need. 5 games will not change peoples opinions but at least will give an opportunity to make an impact. The fact that the players applauded him onto the training pitch (if true) is a very encouraging starting point-Watch out Southampton 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 If what's being reported is true then it reflects very badly on Lambert. How he could let the situation get so out of control before taking action is a real worry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nazvfc Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 **** me - all this judgement on lambert because of Culverhouse and Karsa and it must be poor because he chose them. The rest of your post is right, you make some good points. And I'm actually a fan of Lambert.. But, yes, it does come down to them being his choice and yes it does reflect badly on him and his judgement. Fundamentally, he chose the people to run the team for him, supposedly he then proceeded to sit in his office and let them run all of the training sessions as our style of football got worse and worse and "allegedly" the people he signed to run the club for him bullied the players, physios, tea ladies and the kitchen sink. Of course it reflects poorly upon him. Not least of all for his poor decision making (also shown in three left backs in 4 windows, Helenius, Bowery and Tonev). But also his incompetence to not see it as it was happening, his inability to understand that whatever was going on at these training sessions, bullying or no bullying, was nowhere near working for the club and take action sooner (I'm not even specifically talking suspending Karsa and Culverhouse here, just turning up and taking a hands on approach). Not a problem with what you say - I too am a fan of Lambert. I still feel those two were the culpable ones. Let's see on Saturday - we get the performance from the players for the manager and the fans then maybe just maybe there is a light at the end of this very dark tunnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted April 16, 2014 Moderator Share Posted April 16, 2014 If what's being reported is true then it reflects very badly on Lambert. How he could let the situation get so out of control before taking action is a real worry. I keep reading things like this but as I alluded to in my post, he wanted to take action sooner but wasn't allowed to do so. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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