The_Lions_Roar Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I think some are underestimating the disruption these pair could of caused, particularly culverhouse. Why? I find it difficult to believe that they could have caused much disruption at all? Because if they were, why has it taken til now for someone to sort it out? They would arguably be in more contact with the players than the manager. If training was as bad as its been stated along with a poisonous atmosphere in the dressing room, the leaking of information before games etc. Do you really not think this has affected us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 So Lambert is so disinvolved that he doesn't even know that his two closest staff members are acting inappropriately vis-à-vis the players under his watch and it took the reserve-team coach to step in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nazvfc Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I think some are underestimating the disruption these pair could of caused, particularly culverhouse. Why? I find it difficult to believe that they could have caused much disruption at all? Because if they were, why has it taken til now for someone to sort it out? They would arguably be in more contact with the players than the manager. If training was as bad as its been stated along with a poisonous atmosphere in the dressing room, the leaking of information before games etc. Do you really not think this has affected us? Nah mate - surely it's that the players are shit, Lambert is shit, Lerner is shit, Faulkner is shit - in fact Villa are just shit - Personally I feel the same as you - being bullied (and I have been) in the workplace or in any place does have an effect and takes time to nip in the bud - the bully can be given warnings (and in most cases there is a first warning, followed by a written warning and then suspension before sacking if the culprit fails to do what is asked) UNLESS it is gross misconduct (and is specified as such in the contract of employment) when you can be summarily dismissed. Again my opinion - maybe I am wrong?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepDish Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 (edited) So what exactly were Culverhouse and Karsa doing? Expecting players to be able to pass to each other, defenders to concentrate for more than 30 seconds without going to sleep, plus lots of other despicable acts I expect. And expecting supporters to enjoy the football, which is another despicable act... Edited April 16, 2014 by DeepDish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwan Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 So Lambert is so disinvolved that he doesn't even know that his two closest staff members are acting inappropriately vis-à-vis the players under his watch and it took the reserve-team coach to step in? I think trent's stated multiple times that PL tried to get them removed but the board didn't allow it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I think some are underestimating the disruption these pair could of caused, particularly culverhouse. Why? I find it difficult to believe that they could have caused much disruption at all? Because if they were, why has it taken til now for someone to sort it out? They would arguably be in more contact with the players than the manager. If training was as bad as its been stated along with a poisonous atmosphere in the dressing room, the leaking of information before games etc. Do you really not think this has affected us? Nah mate - surely it's that the players are shit, Lambert is shit, Lerner is shit, Faulkner is shit - in fact Villa are just shit - Personally I feel the same as you - being bullied (and I have been) in the workplace or in any place does have an effect and takes time to nip in the bud - the bully can be given warnings (and in most cases there is a first warning, followed by a written warning and then suspension before sacking if the culprit fails to do what is asked) UNLESS it is gross misconduct (and is specified as such in the contract of employment) when you can be summarily dismissed. Again my opinion - maybe I am wrong?? They haven't been summarily dismissed in this case, just suspended pending an investigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I think some are underestimating the disruption these pair could of caused, particularly culverhouse. Why? I find it difficult to believe that they could have caused much disruption at all? Because if they were, why has it taken til now for someone to sort it out? They would arguably be in more contact with the players than the manager. If training was as bad as its been stated along with a poisonous atmosphere in the dressing room, the leaking of information before games etc. Do you really not think this has affected us? It has affected them\us - its daft to suggest otherwise. But the real problem (lack of quality players on the pitch) hasn't been addressed by yesterday's actions - I wouldn't hold your breath for a drastic upturn in performances\results..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 So if Lambert really did need Culverhouse to help him out with tactics, where does that leave us now? Does Lambert even have the ability to come up with a match plan all by himself? If Lambert stays [beyond this season] he's going to be working with people he hasn't worked with before as his first team coaches. Its an unknown quantity as a management team. A bit like like Ferguson with Archie Knox, then Brian Kidd, then Steve McLaren, then Jimmy Ryan, then Carlos Quieroz, then Walter Smith and then Mike Phelan? Emphasis on 'A bit like' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 (edited) So Lambert is so disinvolved that he doesn't even know that his two closest staff members are acting inappropriately vis-à-vis the players under his watch and it took the reserve-team coach to step in? I think trent's stated multiple times that PL tried to get them removed but the board didn't allow it We're going round in circles. The first question is: since this was his hand-picked coaching team he had worked with for over 8 years, how come he couldn't get them to coach the team in the way he wanted - what does that say about his own effectiveness as a manager? The second one is, once things got to the extreme position of wanting to sack them, why the board were apparently reluctant to do so having had the facts put before them? In my view, nobody is coming out of this shambles with much credit so far, although fair play to Lambert for finally persuading the board if that's what happened. Edited April 16, 2014 by briny_ear 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Tellin Joe N+Bennett he was So Lambert is so disinvolved that he doesn't even know that his two closest staff members are acting inappropriately vis-à-vis the players under his watch and it took the reserve-team coach to step in? I think trent's stated multiple times that PL tried to get them removed but the board didn't allow it We're going round in circles. The first question is: since this was his hand-picked coaching team he had worked with for over 8 years, how come he couldn't get them to coach the team in the way he wanted - what does that say about his own effectiveness as a manager? The second one is, once things got to the extreme position of wanting to sack them, why the board were apparently reluctant to do so having had the facts put before them? In my view, nobody is coming out of this shambles with much credit so far, although fair play to Lambert for finally persuading the board if that's what happened. Last bit is correct. It's all a shambles, but at least something has now been done about it. The most important thing is that this somehow translates to decent (results-wise) football over the last few games. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I have to wonder how these two having a negative attitude made Lambert make poor decisions in terms of formations and players and encouraged long ball football. I think they could have had a negative effect but from the evidence I've seen this season I don't for one second think they are a main problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted April 16, 2014 Moderator Share Posted April 16, 2014 So if Lambert really did need Culverhouse to help him out with tactics, where does that leave us now? Does Lambert even have the ability to come up with a match plan all by himself? If Lambert stays [beyond this season] he's going to be working with people he hasn't worked with before as his first team coaches. Its an unknown quantity as a management team. A bit like like Ferguson with Archie Knox, then Brian Kidd, then Steve McLaren, then Jimmy Ryan, then Carlos Quieroz, then Walter Smith and then Mike Phelan? Emphasis on 'A bit like' I felt that your implication was that Lambert not having worked with these coaches before would cause an issue. That may not have been implied, but my response was to show that the most successful manager of all time often changed his backroom staff around, so it's not an uncommon thing to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 (edited) Some people were suggesting yesterday that they were the ones deciding formation, tactics, etc. Edit - damn. Nuremberg Villan crept in before me! This is a response to BJ10's post above. Edited April 16, 2014 by briny_ear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nazvfc Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I think some are underestimating the disruption these pair could of caused, particularly culverhouse. Why? I find it difficult to believe that they could have caused much disruption at all? Because if they were, why has it taken til now for someone to sort it out? They would arguably be in more contact with the players than the manager. If training was as bad as its been stated along with a poisonous atmosphere in the dressing room, the leaking of information before games etc. Do you really not think this has affected us? Nah mate - surely it's that the players are shit, Lambert is shit, Lerner is shit, Faulkner is shit - in fact Villa are just shit - Personally I feel the same as you - being bullied (and I have been) in the workplace or in any place does have an effect and takes time to nip in the bud - the bully can be given warnings (and in most cases there is a first warning, followed by a written warning and then suspension before sacking if the culprit fails to do what is asked) UNLESS it is gross misconduct (and is specified as such in the contract of employment) when you can be summarily dismissed. Again my opinion - maybe I am wrong?? They haven't been summarily dismissed in this case, just suspended pending an investigation. I know Risso mate - just putting forward what normally happens if it is gross misconduct. In this case it may not be but warrants investigation to get full facts then leads to dismissal. In any case - they could have been the cause of much (not all) of what has gone on. Hopefully now with these changes we might see a different Villa - the one we all want and know can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Lerner being forced to come out personally to add to the PR roll-out tells you what a crisis we are in. Lambert will definitely be gone as soon as the season is over in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MessiWillSignForVilla Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Tellin Joe N+Bennett he was So Lambert is so disinvolved that he doesn't even know that his two closest staff members are acting inappropriately vis-à-vis the players under his watch and it took the reserve-team coach to step in? I think trent's stated multiple times that PL tried to get them removed but the board didn't allow it We're going round in circles. The first question is: since this was his hand-picked coaching team he had worked with for over 8 years, how come he couldn't get them to coach the team in the way he wanted - what does that say about his own effectiveness as a manager? The second one is, once things got to the extreme position of wanting to sack them, why the board were apparently reluctant to do so having had the facts put before them? In my view, nobody is coming out of this shambles with much credit so far, although fair play to Lambert for finally persuading the board if that's what happened. 1) People change. They could have fallen out with Lambert. Maybe they couldn't handle the pressure of working at a club under so much strain currently. Perhaps they were so good at being shit, they managed to hide it quite well from Lambert? There are many reasons why Lambert wouldn't have known, and many reasons why an 8 year relationship could've gone sour. The only "facts" we know are they've been pushed out, seemingly at Lambert's request, which is good if they were causing a negative atmosphere. Without any other details, it's hard to say anything about Lambert's ability as a manager based on this incident. 2) $$$$$. They are currently suspended and under internal investigation. It seems highly likely the investigation will conclude with the decision that they have broken their contract or have severely under-performed, so much so that the club are well within legal rights to terminate their contract with little to no pay off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Lerner being forced to come out personally to add to the PR roll-out tells you what a crisis we are in. Lambert will definitely be gone as soon as the season is over in my opinion. No chance. It was all bullshit with what they said after McLeish. Lambert's going no where while Lerner is still in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I wonder if Culverhouse and Karsa were involved in transfer policy as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted April 16, 2014 Moderator Share Posted April 16, 2014 Just in case you needed any more proof that this is about more than being nasty to the canteen staff, Randy Lerner has spoken - Randy Lerner has acknowledged that he "could not ask for more" from Villa legend Gordon Cowans and senior player Shay Given who have been "unhesitating in answering the manager's call", stepping up to assist manager Paul Lambert ahead of Saturday's game against Southampton. The Villa Chairman identified "loyalty, commitment and support" as key qualities at a time when "unexpected issues [and] very real obstacles" have to be overcome. European Cup winner Cowans immediately emphasised to the players the need to give 100 percent commitment for the remainder of the season, which the Villa Chairman knows Lambert will get from Cowans and Given. "Our manager has been faced with some unexpected issues that could have very easily set the Club back," he said. "In watching him handle matters, along with our Chief Exec, I've seen total loyalty and commitment to Aston Villa while Gordon, a Villa man through and through, has repeatedly stepped up to support the Club regardless of the ask. "Shay, too, has been unhesitating in answering the manager's call. I couldn't ask for more from people who are up for this challenge and the very real obstacles we have to overcome, as is everyone at the Club." Cowans, who joined Villa as a 15-year-old apprentice and in three spells at the Club made a total of 527 appearances, assisted Lambert in training yesterday, as did former Irish international Given, alongside Scott Marshall. Having served previously as first team coach and popularly known as 'Sid', the 55-year-old knows that the priority between now and the end of the season is simply winning games. "When the manager asked me to step up I didn't hesitate. This is a challenge we face and we face it together as a club," he said. "From now until the end of the season we need 100 percent commitment from everybody and I know we'll get this. "The Club is too big, too many people are invested in this in terms of their heart and soul and we need to embrace that and not be daunted by it. "This is a good group, a very honest group, an ambitious group. Training was terrific yesterday - the tempo, the attitude, the commitment, the energy and this is what we need to bring into the game on Saturday. "We're very focused on this. Our priority is to go and win football games. That requires determination, passion and the right performance level but that's what we're about at this club because we have that tradition and we gain strength from that. "The here and now is simple really. The manager is a winner, a football man through and through. He knows what he needs in order for the team to go and perform and win. "Everybody's in this together - players, staff, fans. The fans are really important here, they always have been, so we have everything we need to go and do the job." Given, too, has embraced the challenge having already secured his UEFA B License and UEFA A License and he has an intimate appreciation of the strength of feeling within the playing squad. "The players are desperate to succeed here and to secure the results we need between now and the end of the season," he said. "There's real belief, too, which has always been there. "Any club can go through trying periods but the most important thing for me is the football club. The football club will always be here and that's why it's the most important thing, so we all know our responsibilities. "We all know that we can get the results we're looking for also and I had no doubts in my mind whatsoever the moment the manager asked me to step up. "I know I can help and that's my intention but the focus is very much on the collective because that's how we are as a group. "The fans have been tremendous in backing the team and, if we perform to our maximum in the games, that support will go a long way in the game against Southampton and in our remaining games this season." http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~3770361,00.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 (edited) So Lambert is so disinvolved that he doesn't even know that his two closest staff members are acting inappropriately vis-à-vis the players under his watch and it took the reserve-team coach to step in? I think trent's stated multiple times that PL tried to get them removed but the board didn't allow it If there was an actual basis to sack them, as we are led to believe, then there is no reason to believe the board would insist on keeping them. Edited April 16, 2014 by Isa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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